Armour and weapon designs - a plea.

[Oerwinde]

Whatever people may think about the movies, I really liked the armor designs in the Narnia movies. Fancy enough to look like fantasy armor, but not so silly that it wasn't functional

http://costumes.narn...group3hires.jpg

http://images1.wikia...z-armor-art.jpg

[Bobby Null]

One thing that I highly dislike about modern RPGs are the outlandish and outright ugly armour and designs. If you'd allow me some examples (incoming hyperbole and large images) :

 

 

This

 

 

 

Certainly looks better than this :

 

 

Second example :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the examples, I've juxtaposed somewhat ornamental and a bit fantasy looking pieces of equipment with ones that look more like toys (which I consider to be a general tendency in fantasy cRPGS). Is the continuing urge for so called "epicness" really worth it? I think there's plenty of historical (and not so historical) arms and armour to draw inspiration from. Non-practical equipment is a real eye sore most of the time, IMHO.

 

And yes, I realize that the game is isometric, and we won't see arms and armour in great detail - but that'll only make the task that much easier.

 

While we're at it, please consider using something similar for item descriptions :

 

 

I agree with you on all points. I'll make sure to take the spongy Mjolnir I have in my office and smite any artist who dares create unwieldy-looking weapons or crazy, S&M, cosplay outfits . In all seriousness, I have a sneaking suspicion you'll be quite pleased with the art direction and thematic flavor of the gear in Project Eternity.

[The Sharmat]

Kinda doubt that a weapon made to fight against regular humans (though armored) will be any help against giant fantasy monsters. So yeah there is even a believable reason for giant weapons to exist in the fantasy genre.

Any axe large enough to be effective against an organism like the one pictured would be too large to be effectively wielded by a human anyway.

[obyknven]

Just a f******g excellent armor design.

[Karranthain]

I agree with you on all points. I'll make sure to take the spongy Mjolnir I have in my office and smite any artist who dares create unwieldy-looking weapons or crazy, S&M, cosplay outfits . In all seriousness, I have a sneaking suspicion you'll be quite pleased with the art direction and thematic flavor of the gear in Project Eternity.

 

Am I glad to hear that Thanks for the great news!

 

P.S.

 

Consider adding the "Spongy Mjolnir" reward tier

 

 

Whatever people may think about the movies, I really liked the armor designs in the Narnia movies. Fancy enough to look like fantasy armor, but not so silly that it wasn't functional

http://images1.wikia...z-armor-art.jpg

 

I really like this one! I found Justin Sweet's rendition of that armour too :

 

Edited September 22, 2012 by Karranthain

[Archon Stormraven]

As long as we get to do this :

 

 

Seriously.

I see anyone in a chainmail bikini (unless its my companion AND I GAVE HER ONE) I'll probably kill her.

Hey, always wanted to play as a serial killer.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Archon Stormraven

[Michał]

Just a f******g excellent armor design.

 

Well... for me guy in this armour looks like cheap marvel-design badboy. Next please!

 

And about hitting something with 45 kilo hammer - good luck with swinging it.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Michał

[obyknven]

One thing that I highly dislike about modern RPGs are the outlandish and outright ugly armour and designs. If you'd allow me some examples (incoming hyperbole and large images) :

 

 

This

 

 

 

Certainly looks better than this :

 

 

 

Eurocentrism detected.

 

 

[Karranthain]

Further proof that practical armour can look very appealing :

 

 

It's of Byzantine design.

[Baudolino05]

Further proof that practical armour can look very appealing :

 

 

It's of Byzantine design.

 

Yeah,Varyag emperor's guards in Constantinople were definitely cool....There were also great Muslim armor sets in the same period...

Edited September 22, 2012 by Baudolino05

[Stiler]

One thing that is missing from games is just how personal armor/weapons should be. I would LOVE to see PE take the idea forward. Allow players to customize their armor and weapons in various ways rather then either not at all or simply having a "dye" system.

 

If you ever look at some historical knight armor it looks quite good. They could have very ornate designs. The armor could be etched, engraved, embossed,gilded, painted on (there are many pieces of armor found with various painted designs, from crests/symbols and things, it's a common misconception that plate armor was all "silver and clean" or that they didn't paint armor.

 

Armor itself could be in various colors through different means, heat-patination was one such way, depending on how you heated the armor and when you stopped you could have it turn out to be a blue'ish color and others, it took skill for this though. There were also ways to have armor be black as well as golden, etc.

 

You had various types of armor, battle armor, jousting armor, and ceremonial armor (usually very very ornate and not practical for battle).

 

Here are a few pics of historical plate armor from museums:

http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-35823457/stock-photo-french-king-s-armor-in-historical-museum.html

http://www.skiptonweb.co.uk/gallery/picture.asp?id=2980

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/14.25.716

http://gonewengland.about.com/library/blarmor3.htm (this is jousting armor, if you notice it has shoulder protection on one side to protect from hits)

 

 

It just seems many people that use plate armor for entertainment (IE movies/games) don't realize just how amazing it could be and have a wrong picture of it in their heads from seeing films and things.

 

One thing I haaaaaaaaate about armor in most games is the oversized pauldrons with giant spikes on them or the helmets. Putting spikes on ANY piece of armor is just a bad idea, you're asking to have a weapon or hand grab it. There's a reason that as armor evolved they used curves and various techniques to make blows and things glance off it, last thing you want is something to catch on it or to allow someone a good hand hold.

 

I understand it's a fantasy rpg, but I'd like to see a game that treats armor more personal and allows players to decorate it in a more realistic fashion (which looks great imo).

[Karranthain]

Nice examples, Stiler!

 

This one in particular looks amazing :

 

http://www.flickr.co...amp/5059944507/

 

And again, just goes to prove that realistic doesn't have to equal boring and unappealing visually.

 

That said, of course that level of detail would be unattainable in PE, but that wasn't the aim in the first place

Edited September 22, 2012 by Karranthain

[Death Saved]

Footsoldier from eastern parts of Europe

 

 

You know an idea just popped into my head looking at that guy's axe and then thinking of the people that complain about oversized weapons. Look at that axe and tell me that that thing would do anything to this:

 

 

 

Kinda doubt that a weapon made to fight against regular humans (though armored) will be any help against giant fantasy monsters. So yeah there is even a believable reason for giant weapons to exist in the fantasy genre.

 

Well all of the weapons momentum is focused on that small blade so yes it would do more damage than a larger axe (granted a significatly larger axe would benefit from the weight during a downward swing), also it's size would help it get between those protruding scales.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Death Saved

[Karranthain]

Just to be clear, though - I'm not advocating absolute realism. Historical examples are a good starting point, an excellent inspiration, but PE isn't going to be a historical game

 

To me, a well designed weapon or armour treads a fine line between practicality and a fantasy feel/ornamentation. I feel this enhances the world design, makes it more believable, and ultimately, more appealing visually.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Karranthain

[Shevek]

To a certain extent, weapon and armor designs have always been a bit wonky in RPGs. Maces, for example, always look like a melon on a stick in games. I do agree, however, that more releastic designs would be way better.

 

Look at Game of Thrones.... that is a fantasy show. Yet, armor and weapons look real. You need to have things grounded in reality for people to buy into the fantasy you are presenting them.

 

I too am not advocating 100% realism but running around with buster swords would be dumb.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Shevek

[Shevek]

As a side note, I would love to see a few less Euro-centric weapons. I would love to have a guy that uses a pata in my party, for example.

 

[Karranthain]

As a side note, I would love to see a few less Euro-centric weapons. I would love to have a guy that uses a pata in my party, for example.

 

Add some sabres while you're at it :

 

 

[IchigoRXC]

I think they should draw weapon and armour styles from many different sources, ustilising them where they feel appropriate.

I for one would love to see Kama's involved

 

I also like the Shamshir style sabre weapons posted above and would love to see more exotic weaponry become the norm when brought into P:E.

 

Things like the Katar and the Khanjar

 

 

 

Also, I know there is a lot of hate going around for oversized weapons, I however do feel they have a place in the fantasy realm. If you have the strength of an ogre, I would like to be able to wield a weapon larger than that of the norm. I am not saying they should rediculous or completley impractical, but if the game lends itself much like Baldur's Gate did, in the way that you can obtain strength higher than that of a normal human being, leading up to Giant strength, I would like that strength to be used for something like wielding a weapon that would otherwise be impossible.

This could be an unconventional weapon that would be really really heavy like an ogre club or something similar, or the ability to wield a 2 handed weapon in one hand starting with penalties but eventually negating them. (Dual wielding would have much larger penalties)

[Michał]

Karranthain, sabres are still europocentric (as if being europocentric is something wrong... )

 

Sabres were used in early modern period in states such as Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Tsadrom fo Russia, Hungary.

 

 

 

 

 

In Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth sabre was a symbol of nobility.

[Stiler]

Speaking of drawing influences from other cultures/times.

 

I would REALLY like to see a few Native American inspired weapons and things in the game. I mean it could fit quite well imo.

 

One thing I'd love is a gunstock warclub, similar to the one they had in the Last of the Mohicans (love that movie, one of my fav's) that Chingachgook uses,

 

For reference here is the scene in the film where he uses it (If you ha ven't watched Last of the Mohicans this is a MAJOR spoiler)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zJLfojG3BU

 

Picture here if you don't wanna spoil the film:

http://en.wikipedia....nstock_war_club

 

Also would like to see Tomahawks and knifes used less like thieves use them in rpgs and more like up close weapons.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Stiler

[Karranthain]

Karranthain, sabres are still europocentric (as if being europocentric is something wrong... )

 

Sabres were used in early modern period in states such as Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Tsadrom fo Russia, Hungary.

 

Aye, but those countries were quite clearly influenced by the Eastern culture (those garments on the last picture certainly are).

 

Let's not derail the topic too much though

Edited September 22, 2012 by Karranthain

[Michał]

Let's not derail the topic too much though

 

To prevent this I want to say one thing - I would love to see elves with sabres. Why?

Because in many fantasy RPGs (computer and pen-and-paper) elves are smaller or lighter than humans, so it should be harder for them to properly use swords (since they rely on chopping and raw energy of a blow). Saber on the other hand are desingned for slashing (generally) and cuve of a blade makes it quite easy even without much energy in strike itself.

[Shevek]

I made some replacement maces for NWN under the name Belenus a long time ago.

 

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Hakpaks.Detail&id=397

 

I have one small screenshot but all the old 3DS max files I had are gone, lol. The ones I made were still too big but they were WAY smaller than the NWN ones. The mace heads in NWN looked like ballons glued to the top of sticks.

 

Anywho, I made those because I hate how companies make blunt weapons. Here is how they SHOULD look.

 

 

The issue exists with axe heads also. They always make them cartoony big.

[Nistan]

I always had a problem with armour in RPG's in general.

Unless the civilization is in a sort of industrial revolution. Most armor would be a very spartan, functional sort of thing.

Something all the blacksmiths in the land had to do ten of, for the army, every year.

You would have to be LOADED to get the armours that exists in any RPG.

 

What I would think is cool is customizable armour.

If you are a soldier you start with the armys standard issue. And then you can work in things into it as you progress through the game.

Like weaving in chainmail links or a neckguard, etc. Give your armour some personality.

You could even remove stuff from the armour: you want mobility as a ranger or extra pockets for your throwing knives(that makes your character faster in throwing them) as a thief you could do that to. Stuff like that can make it easier to roleplay. Somebody that loves his armour, and is superstitious of changing it to something new.

The super +1 armour should be in the game. But these should be EXTREMELY RARE and EXPENSIVE as sin.

[Karranthain]

To prevent this I want to say one thing - I would love to see elves with sabres. Why?

Because in many fantasy RPGs (computer and pen-and-paper) elves are smaller or lighter than humans, so it should be harder for them to properly use swords (since they rely on chopping and raw energy of a blow). Saber on the other hand are desingned for slashing (generally) and cuve of a blade makes it quite easy even without much energy in strike itself.

 

Elves in LotR did use saber-like weapons, for an instance.

 

Fitted them quite nicely.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Karranthain