Armour and weapon designs - a plea.

[The Sharmat]

I'm ok with SOME concessions to style if it fits the character. A hanging tabard is a bit different from boob plate. I like that detail from the artist though.

 

I want to know what all that black wispy stuff is flowing out of the bad guys, personally.

[Karranthain]

I'm ok with SOME concessions to style if it fits the character. A hanging tabard is a bit different from boob plate. I like that detail from the artist though.

 

I like it too, was just being facetious

 

Do you think those two new characters (the monk and the wizard) are actually companions?

Edited October 4, 2012 by Karranthain

[IchigoRXC]

I myself like the concepts all coming together and I think the art has a fantastic feel to it. The monk is something I like and depending on how they take the monks possible spirituality and abilities will determine if I deem his attire suitable or not.

 

For me, as stated in the monk thread, the Monk could have a sort of spiritual barrier for shielding and parrying, utilising his deep spiritual training which has unlocked specific energies from his/her soul. It would work similarly to an A.T. Field from the Evangelion series. http://wiki.evageeks.org/A.T._Field

 

Barriers (such as clothing) could possibly hinder the soul creating this barrier, thus actually lowering his/her defensive capabilities. Thinner more flowing materials the better.

[Agiel]

I have never seen people complain about the Govenator firing an M-60 machine gun with one hand while shirtless:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix3EEipwRJk#t=6m12s

 

And damn if that scene didn't make that movie for some people (I know it did for me).

 

It's a video game, people. Let's indulge in a power fantasy why don't we?

 

And, you know, sometimes actual soldiers DO fight relatively exposed:

 

[Karranthain]

Another piece of concept art released :

 

 

We've seen a less detailed version before - I must say this looks very nice, I like the practical design; I hope that the rapier isn't just for show (looks great). So glad it isn't typical staff + robe wizard.

[FlintlockJazz]

 

Also, those that cry about realistic or practical armor just don't know what they talking about. Fully covered plate armor was ever used only by heavy cavalery, and even then guy had to be put on horse with lift.

 

Stop right there, that is bull spread by Hollywood! No knight had to be lifted onto horseback and could run and move fine (it was the heat that was the problem, plate is actually quite light for armour). The only person who had to be lifted onto his horse was a french king who was lifted because he was too FAT! Please, before you lecture go and do some actual research first, most of what you learn from RPGs and films is actually complete bull (don't get me started on studded leather).

[SanguineAngel]

Also, those that cry about realistic or practical armor just don't know what they talking about. Fully covered plate armor was ever used only by heavy cavalery, and even then guy had to be put on horse with lift.

 

Stop right there, that is bull spread by Hollywood! No knight had to be lifted onto horseback and could run and move fine (it was the heat that was the problem, plate is actually quite light for armour). The only person who had to be lifted onto his horse was a french king who was lifted because he was too FAT! Please, before you lecture go and do some actual research first, most of what you learn from RPGs and films is actually complete bull (don't get me started on studded leather).

 

Hey that's quite cool. So, please do get started on studded leather - sounds interesting!?

[FlintlockJazz]

Also, those that cry about realistic or practical armor just don't know what they talking about. Fully covered plate armor was ever used only by heavy cavalery, and even then guy had to be put on horse with lift.

 

Stop right there, that is bull spread by Hollywood! No knight had to be lifted onto horseback and could run and move fine (it was the heat that was the problem, plate is actually quite light for armour). The only person who had to be lifted onto his horse was a french king who was lifted because he was too FAT! Please, before you lecture go and do some actual research first, most of what you learn from RPGs and films is actually complete bull (don't get me started on studded leather).

 

Hey that's quite cool. So, please do get started on studded leather - sounds interesting!?

 

NOOOO I CANNOT!!!

 

The short version is that it never existed. There was brigandine, which was leather or felt with rivets visible on the outside that held metal plates on the inside in place, and faux brigandine that was fake brigandine worn for court (it was rather stylish armour). Studded leather would not work as armour, the blows would drive the studs into you and focus the force of the blow, the opposite of what you would want.

[obyknven]

Studded leather would not work as armour, the blows would drive the studs into you and focus the force of the blow, the opposite of what you would want.

U made Mongols lol. Chinese and Japan armorers lol too.

[TrashMan]

I have never seen people complain about the Govenator firing an M-60 machine gun with one hand while shirtless:

 

http://www.youtube.c...EipwRJk#t=6m12s

 

And damn if that scene didn't make that movie for some people (I know it did for me).

 

It's a video game, people. Let's indulge in a power fantasy why don't we?

 

YOU want a power fantasy.

Not me.

If I want to induldge in a power fantasy, I'd go for different games.

[sialala]

Well, if a mage is able to blow up a mountain with a single spell, I think warriors should be able to use a huge two handed sword that can chop a tree with one hit too...

 

Why stop there? They should be able to dual wield Greatswords and a SHIELD.

 

About that, just check this one . This is Jan III Sobieskis ( Polish king from may21 1674 - june17 1696 ) sword, sheath and a hat which was blessed by a pope Innocent XI. You can still see it in a Wawel Castle ( museum ) in Krakow Poland. Whole length of this sword is 200,6 cm. Anyway in the same museum You can see a twohanded swords, longer then 2meters which was used by Polish knight in fights to cut off horse legs of the enemy cavalry. So my conclusion is that swords long like this existed and stil You can see them, but for sure You can't chop a tree with one hit )

[elenuial]

I have never seen people complain about the Govenator firing an M-60 machine gun with one hand while shirtless:

 

http://www.youtube.c...EipwRJk#t=6m12s

 

And damn if that scene didn't make that movie for some people (I know it did for me).

 

It's a video game, people. Let's indulge in a power fantasy why don't we?

 

YOU want a power fantasy.

Not me.

If I want to induldge in a power fantasy, I'd go for different games.

 

Ditto. If you want a power fantasy, why don't you play every other major game produced?

 

Power fantasies are easy to find. Contemporary culture is designed around giving people power fantasies. I have hope for something more nuanced from this game.

[obyknven]

Studded leather would not work as armour, the blows would drive the studs into you and focus the force of the blow, the opposite of what you would want.

 

U made Mongols lol. Chinese and Japan armorers lol too.

 

Even Indian armorers lol.

 

[Jarmo]

Studded leather would not work as armour, the blows would drive the studs into you and focus the force of the blow, the opposite of what you would want.

U made Mongols lol. Chinese and Japan armorers lol too.

 

That's brigandine, or coat of plates or whatever it's called. The rivet thingies hold the metal plates in place.

The important bit is, there's metal plates or sheets or whatever under the cloth. It's not just pointy things for cool.

 

Wikipedia Brigandine. The indian model is there as well.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Jarmo

[ImRhoven]

I have never seen people complain about the Govenator firing an M-60 machine gun with one hand while shirtless:

 

And damn if that scene didn't make that movie for some people (I know it did for me).

 

It's a video game, people. Let's indulge in a power fantasy why don't we?

 

And, you know, sometimes actual soldiers DO fight relatively exposed:

 

 

1. "The Governator" does over the top, brainless action flicks, PE is an immersive, story driven RPG.

2. The IE games weren't about "power fantasies", and since PE is a game built on their foundation neither should it be. There're plenty of games on the market that deliver that already if that's what you want.

3. You're comparing some modern soldiers firing from a safe high ground position with long range weaponry, to chainmail bikinis ... really? You also saw why what those guys did is a bad idea (the hot casing dropping in his shoe, the burns on his uncovered legs from the casings, in case you missed it.)

[FlintlockJazz]

I second what Jarma said, either they are brigandine or fake brigandine made for wearing at court, oby has made the same mistake those who came up with studded leather in the first place did.

[BasaltineBadger]

2. The IE games weren't about "power fantasies", and since PE is a game built on their foundation neither should it be. There're plenty of games on the market that deliver that already if that's what you want.

 

Torment wasn't. Baldur's Gate was about being a god's child, romancing elves and crushing powerful foes. In ID2 you stopped entire armies. If that's not a power fantasy I don't know what is.

[Ieo]

I have never seen people complain about the Govenator firing an M-60 machine gun with one hand while shirtless:

 

And damn if that scene didn't make that movie for some people (I know it did for me).

 

It's a video game, people. Let's indulge in a power fantasy why don't we?

 

And, you know, sometimes actual soldiers DO fight relatively exposed:

 

 

1. "The Governator" does over the top, brainless action flicks, PE is an immersive, story driven RPG.

2. The IE games weren't about "power fantasies", and since PE is a game built on their foundation neither should it be. There're plenty of games on the market that deliver that already if that's what you want.

3. You're comparing some modern soldiers firing from a safe high ground position with long range weaponry, to chainmail bikinis ... really? You also saw why what those guys did is a bad idea (the hot casing dropping in his shoe, the burns on his uncovered legs from the casings, in case you missed it.)

2. The IE games weren't about "power fantasies", and since PE is a game built on their foundation neither should it be. There're plenty of games on the market that deliver that already if that's what you want.

 

Torment wasn't. Baldur's Gate was about being a god's child, romancing elves and crushing powerful foes. In ID2 you stopped entire armies. If that's not a power fantasy I don't know what is.

 

It's too early for me to think about what "power fantasy" means exactly, but I do agree with 1 and 3. Context...

[FlintlockJazz]

2. The IE games weren't about "power fantasies", and since PE is a game built on their foundation neither should it be. There're plenty of games on the market that deliver that already if that's what you want.

 

Torment wasn't. Baldur's Gate was about being a god's child, romancing elves and crushing powerful foes. In ID2 you stopped entire armies. If that's not a power fantasy I don't know what is.

 

Actually if BG2 is a power fantasy because you play a god child then so is PST: it lets you play an immortal being whose stats can transcend human limitations. Its not though because you don't get to force your opinions upon others, your powers are portrayed as a curse often and you find yourself at the mercy of others. Likewise in BG your heritage is also played as a curse in many regards and you have people trying to use you against your will. These are not power fantasies, power fantasies are when everything is done to gratify your desires: you are granted awesome powers and get to do what you like while those you don't like are destroyed and humiliated.

[BasaltineBadger]

2. The IE games weren't about "power fantasies", and since PE is a game built on their foundation neither should it be. There're plenty of games on the market that deliver that already if that's what you want.

 

Torment wasn't. Baldur's Gate was about being a god's child, romancing elves and crushing powerful foes. In ID2 you stopped entire armies. If that's not a power fantasy I don't know what is.

 

Actually if BG2 is a power fantasy because you play a god child then so is PST: it lets you play an immortal being whose stats can transcend human limitations. Its not though because you don't get to force your opinions upon others, your powers are portrayed as a curse often and you find yourself at the mercy of others. Likewise in BG your heritage is also played as a curse in many regards and you have people trying to use you against your will. These are not power fantasies, power fantasies are when everything is done to gratify your desires: you are granted awesome powers and get to do what you like while those you don't like are destroyed and humiliated.

 

This is not true. People usually try to kill superheroes because of their powers yet, it's clear for everyone that they are power fantasies. Your comparison between Torment and BG is simply unfair. In Torment you doom people around you because your course, have to deal with results of your past action and in the end destroy being you brought into this world and be send to hell afterwards. In Baldur's Gate you save the world from return of the powerful evil god, kick asses of important heroes that tremble before your might, fight besides Drizzt one of the most popular DnD characters and **** elves. You can't call being a Baal spawn a curse when you meet new friends because of that and kick asses of everyone who tries to mess with you. Compare that with the MoTB ending where soul eating is a nuisance and you have to surrender in the end because Kelemvor is simply too powerful for you to touch. Can you see the difference between "doom everyone, clean up a mess you've made, go to hell" and "use your powers to save the world, possibly become a God"? It's like saying that Superman is like Watchmen because Luthor hate supes because of his powers.

[kenup]

This is not true. People usually try to kill superheroes because of their powers yet, it's clear for everyone that they are power fantasies. Your comparison between Torment and BG is simply unfair. In Torment you doom people around you because your course, have to deal with results of your past action and in the end destroy being you brought into this world and be send to hell afterwards. In Baldur's Gate you save the world from return of the powerful evil god, kick asses of important heroes that tremble before your might, fight besides Drizzt one of the most popular DnD characters and **** elves. You can't call being a Baal spawn a curse when you meet new friends because of that and kick asses of everyone who tries to mess with you. Compare that with the MoTB ending where soul eating is a nuisance and you have to surrender in the end because Kelemvor is simply too powerful for you to touch. Can you see the difference between "doom everyone, clean up a mess you've made, go to hell" and "use your powers to save the world, possibly become a God"? It's like saying that Superman is like Watchmen because Luthor hate supes because of his powers.

 

Well to be fair, even in MotB the only reason Kelemvor is out of your league, is that you are in his realm. In neutral ground him and other gods are probably screwed. The evil ending out rightly says the KC killed many gods(and it even suggests it wasn't one on one).

 

I do not like comic superheroes because, like superman, they just born/wake up one day with all their powers. As long as you have to "sweat" for it, I don't see what the problem is, with becoming powerful. In fact, I think it's ridiculous to want to play an RPG with magic and not wanting to reach a high point after 10, 20 levels or whatever. And off course, everything should make sense within the limits of the world and plot.

[FlintlockJazz]

This is not true. People usually try to kill superheroes because of their powers yet, it's clear for everyone that they are power fantasies. Your comparison between Torment and BG is simply unfair. In Torment you doom people around you because your course, have to deal with results of your past action and in the end destroy being you brought into this world and be send to hell afterwards. In Baldur's Gate you save the world from return of the powerful evil god, kick asses of important heroes that tremble before your might, fight besides Drizzt one of the most popular DnD characters and **** elves. You can't call being a Baal spawn a curse when you meet new friends because of that and kick asses of everyone who tries to mess with you. Compare that with the MoTB ending where soul eating is a nuisance and you have to surrender in the end because Kelemvor is simply too powerful for you to touch. Can you see the difference between "doom everyone, clean up a mess you've made, go to hell" and "use your powers to save the world, possibly become a God"? It's like saying that Superman is like Watchmen because Luthor hate supes because of his powers.

 

It is true, a power fantasy is where the protagonist is in control and gets to assert his control over everyone else, hence the term power fantasy since it is usually the writer putting themself in a story (Author Avatar) where they have the power to beat up those they don't like in real life and lord it over everyone. The protagonist in BG is constantly having to fight off the influence of the Bhaal essence (which until the very end of the game gives him a slayer form that he can't use constantly and some cure lights that he loses when he gains the aforementioned slayer form), see's family and friends killed before him with no power to stop it (Gorion is slaughtered by Sarevok, Dynaheir and Khalid are killed by Irenicus, plus any characters that get killed in the course of the game that are either gibbed or the PC fails to get ressed for some reason), Irenicus captures and tortures the PC and then takes his soul for his own benefit, and the PC has very little control over his destiny until pretty much the end when he finally either becomes a god (and the game ends) or escapes his destiny (and the game still ends).

 

As for 'kick asses of everyone and have them tremble before you' that is patently not true, you're actually applying a bias there. When you start the game you can be killed by a solitary kobold if you are not careful, Irenicus takes on you and your whole party and requires tactics to win, in fact any fight with a serious enemy is deadly (unless you're playing on easy or something) if you mess up. ****ing elves does not require much. Saving the world is a standard plotline and is not a power fantasy, it only becomes a power fantasy when the character does it with a smug grin on their face and waving their awesome around.

 

Superheroes can be power fantasies true, but it depends on whose writing them and many are not. They don't have to be Watchmen in order for a superhero to not be a power fantasy, that's assuming a false dichotomy.

[Karranthain]

On the topic of armour & weapon designs, we'll supposedly get a first glimpse of the PE tomorrow - can't wait, we'll see the overall direction that that game will take (that said, I don't think there's any need to worry, judging by what we've seen so far).

[BasaltineBadger]

@FlintlockJazz

Again. Power fantasy doesn't mean not meeting opposition. Every power fantasy movie has opposition problems and struggles. Superheroes has villains who also sometimes kill the loved ones of heroes, and they sometime meet enemies that is too hard for them to beat (but they beat them later). Name me one popular power fantasy work where hero newer meets with opponents that seem too strong for him at a time, nothing bad ever happens to him and he's in control all the time.

[Amentep]

IMO - Power fantasies are about an individual using a fantasy as a way to redress wrongs / get revenge.

 

Superman as a character is not a power fantasy as he is not using fantasy to redress wrongs done to him; a kid may see Superman defeating villains and being strong and capable as an empowering escape from reality. In that latter case, Superman is the Kid's power fantasy. Walter Mitty's stories, however, are Power Fantasies - he uses fantasy to escape his world that he can't deal with.

 

Therefore, neither Baldur's Gate or Planescape Torment's protaganist exist as created to be power fantasies. That does not mean that a player couldn't see being immortal or a godchild as a power fantasy for them.

 

To bring this around on topic, I think that the design sense they're going with is going to be reasonable for armor - based on evidence so far. And I seem to recall Josh being a bit of a history buff from the BIS days, so I can't help but think he probably has some ideas for what the artists might want to look to in terms of arms/armor design for the game.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Amentep