Tool-Kit

[oldmanpaco]

It seems unlikely due to the nature of the 2D painted landscapes/environments but what are the odds of some sort of tool-kit being included? Maybe as a stretch goal?

[Semper]

oh god please let this happen. since nwn2 there ain't a party based crpg with a powerful toolset. don't care about how difficult it is to handle, just release your tools in some way so that the community is able to create content. a flexible engine with a minimum amount of hardcoded rules would be amazing

[Serrano]

I'd really like to see that too.

[agent12345]

That would be great. I think a toolset improves the shelf life of games like this too.

[HangedMan]

I'm throwing my voice into the chorus. An SDK of some sort would be awesome. If not backgrounds and new locations and the likje, then why not editing/creating new NPCs and items and such? Plus, I'm sure creative reuse of resources might make new landscapes plausible.

[mkreku]

Maybe tools as one of the stretch goals?

[LadySpace]

Oh, yeah. We definitely need a toolkit/SDK. A game like this just screams "awesome modding communities would improve me immensely."

[testerius]

Oh, yeah. We definitely need a toolkit/SDK. A game like this just screams "awesome modding communities would improve me immensely."

 

Yes, we will get many, many, many mods like other games on Nexus sites. I really love mods and I want to have mods in PE too.

[.Leif.]

If it doesn't come out with the game itself we may see it in the expansion pack. Being able to mod your own races, classes and story would be a wonderful feature.

[Frisk]

They have already said it will be possible to mod the game. Some things will be easier than others....but if the game mechanisms are scripted, it would be possible to change/add spells and new classes. It should also be possible to change dialogue and add quests and such in existing areas.

 

It should also be possible to add new items or modify existing ones.

 

I expect it will be rather hard (but nt impossible) to add new areas.

 

I am not sure if it will be possible to add new monsters or to add animations to existing ones.

 

Now, some of the necessary tools might be provided by Obsidian, but in other cases they might just provide file format info and let the community develop its own tools - something which has been dona successfully for other games in the past. Just wait and see...I expect we will hear something from Obsidian regarding this in a year or so.

[PIPBoy3000]

I'm starting to worry about the "adding new areas" aspect. I suspect it's going to require some 3D modeling skills to generate occlusion/walkmesh data.

[Osvir]

What features would be most important in a "Tool-kit"? (what data files should be the most easy to mod)

 

Personally:

* Dialogue

* Map

* Models

* Sound

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/62163-on-pacifism-the-nonlethal-takedown/page__st__20

Would it be easy to mod in tunnels and such in the "non-painted" area maybe? (The blackness of the edge)

If this could be a moddable "prop" in the game I suspect that people could mod a "100% Pacifism"-Game Mode where you sneak around, perhaps if you can enter in enemies on patrol as well you could go the full way with a "James Bond" game. If there will be tranquilizer darts, smoke bombs (that you can throw with a nice area of effect circle), trap making and prone stance you could create "ventilation" type of passages to get to the end of a Dungeon.

 

Although, some bosses would still be hard to "Pacify" so to speak... e.g., could dialogue be made easy to mod somehow?

 

TL;DR: Talking about modding ideas.

[TheRealDrMcCoy]

I just hope they won't create another horrific frankenmonster format like that GFF thing...

Hierachical data, okay. Wanting it to be binary for quick and easy parsing, fine. But GFF was the worst of both ideas. Complex, not at all quick and full of hacks like the Entry/Reply lists in the Aurora DLG GFFs.

 

Not a big fan of 2DA either. Especially not the binary version.

Edited November 6, 2012 by TheRealDrMcCoy

[slowdive]

What features would be most important in a "Tool-kit"? (what data files should be the most easy to mod)

 

Personally:

* Dialogue

* Map

* Models

* Sound

 

I agree that having the conversation file format would be a great start. A strong conversation editor would be key. We could get started on developing that tool as soon as we have the file formats. Obsidian has stated that they have an in-house tool for conversation editing that they have used on their other projects which leads me to believe that they might have the file format already figured out.

 

I think the IE games just used a few different bitmaps for each map. One for the map, one for walkmesh information, one for occlusion information, etc. Color information was used to define walkable and occlusion areas. I may be wrong there, just my observations while using Infinity Explorer.

[Osvir]

I would like to add two more to the list (those which I would prioritize if I were a Developer me thinks, if it was a question of prioritizing anything regarding a Tool-Kit):

* Companions

Yes, we are getting the Adventurer's Hall, but I am talking about being able to mod in a Companion and place them somewhere in the world, add Dialogue to them, mix and play with their Class. Giving my character concepts life purpose and a back story in P:E. Make your own V.I.P Companions, instead of getting Cadegund and Edair every game.

 

*Class Kits

Being able to create unique, our own one-of-a-kind Class Kit for those Companions or for use for our own Character. These are 3 specific (Dialogue/Class/Companion) things I can think of that would naturally cause more replayability. Sound, Models and Map are deeper modifications for a more immersible world, whilst being able to create Companions/Class Kits and more Dialogue on the fly would give the Player more options and variety.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Osvir

[AwesomeOcelot]

Tool-kits take a lot of time to develop, they either need to be user-friendly, or have a lot of documentation. I think just using open standards as much as possible will allow modders to create their own tools. I'm seeing games using open standards like XML and python, 7zip for packaging. Animation, collision, and path finding are areas where sharing plugins and documentation might be required, depending on how they modify Unity.

[Frisk]

The key issue for modders will be how much of the game is hardcoded, and impossible to modify.

 

Consider for example something simple like moving around. I am going to assume there will be something like a walkmesh. We may be able to modify that, add new exits on the map and so on. What we would not be able to modify are things like you only being able to walk on the walkmesh - I do not think it would be feasible to add the ability to fly around, for example.

 

Consider also something like companions. I think it should be possible to add new companions - after all, they are just like any other NPCs - just have a much larger dialogue and more complicated scripts. What you might not be able to modify, however, are things like the maximum # of companions you can have - that might be hardcoded into the game (if only to make sure the GUI handles them properly.

[Osvir]

The key issue for modders will be how much of the game is hardcoded, and impossible to modify.

 

Consider for example something simple like moving around. I am going to assume there will be something like a walkmesh. We may be able to modify that, add new exits on the map and so on. What we would not be able to modify are things like you only being able to walk on the walkmesh - I do not think it would be feasible to add the ability to fly around, for example.

 

Consider also something like companions. I think it should be possible to add new companions - after all, they are just like any other NPCs - just have a much larger dialogue and more complicated scripts. What you might not be able to modify, however, are things like the maximum # of companions you can have - that might be hardcoded into the game (if only to make sure the GUI handles them properly.

 

Do you think it could be possible to mod attack animations to such detail that basically when you are facing an Ogre you can modify how your character will move against that specific enemy? Or perhaps a fight against a Gibberling where it latches on to your shield and gnaws at you. In Baldur's Gate that would equal you taking 1 damage. What I am saying is that having more "realistic" animations and easy use to access it, so that that fight with the Gibberling (specifically) visually looks like a power struggle, instead of "Chop" back and forth.

 

Whether such animations is part of the core game or not, is it possible to build an engine in such a way? I understand that there is 100's of different situations to take into consideration (1 or 2 full animations where your character dodges with consideration to the enemy attack speed and striking etc. etc). That when you hit the Ogre with a hammer to the face it gets jabbed and staggers backwards or might even hit dirt if critical hit.

[Carmelle]

Do you think it could be possible to mod attack animations to such detail that basically when you are facing an Ogre you can modify how your character will move against that specific enemy? Or perhaps a fight against a Gibberling where it latches on to your shield and gnaws at you. In Baldur's Gate that would equal you taking 1 damage. What I am saying is that having more "realistic" animations and easy use to access it, so that that fight with the Gibberling (specifically) visually looks like a power struggle, instead of "Chop" back and forth.

Probably not, unless they build that sort of functionality in to begin with.

 

Whether such animations is part of the core game or not, is it possible to build an engine in such a way? I understand that there is 100's of different situations to take into consideration (1 or 2 full animations where your character dodges with consideration to the enemy attack speed and striking etc. etc). That when you hit the Ogre with a hammer to the face it gets jabbed and staggers backwards or might even hit dirt if critical hit.

Definitely possible, it's just a lot of work and a bit hard to do. I know there's at least some work and

that have worked on creating procedural, real time and reactive animations. That kind of system might be able to do it, but it'd definitely cost a pretty penny to license something like Euphoria, and more to get it working well enough to do what you'd want, if it's even possible. And even then, they're not the greatest of animations....work really well for things like reacting to falls or things hitting them, but not so much for more nuanced movements. Edited November 12, 2012 by Carmelle

[Daulmakan]

A tool kit would be awesome, regardless of the painted maps.

[DCM]

I agree, a toolkit would only be an additional selling point to the game.

[Frisk]

With some previous games, we got a toolkit, including resources, which would essentially allow us to create the entire game or modify whatever we wanted. That is just not going to happen with PE - we are NOT going to get anything resembling the NWN2 or DA toolsets - don't get your hopes up. The basic reason is simple - in those cases we essentially got what the developers had to build in order to build the game itself and all the resources were a part of the game. This time things are different - some of the primary resources are not a part of the game as such (example 3D models used to make backgrounds), and there is also the issue with Unity - it simplifies a lot of things for Obsidian, but may impose certain restrictions in this area.

 

However, even though me might not get a toolset as such, we might well get some tools ... stuff developed internally. I wrote an overview here which lists some (reasonable) expectations. I would be happy if Obsidian provides us with more, but overall, I expect that whatever we get from them (combined with whatever the community can come up with) should allow the community to produce a reasonable range of mods and additions.