Gamers Against Bigotry

[Delfosse]

From 1:10.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnSByCb8lqY&feature=player_detailpage#t=70s

Edited July 26, 2012 by Delfosse

[Azdeus]

I'm not sold on it being anonymous. I have no problems with my name being visible, or at least available in some way. RealID hasn't impacted me in the slightest. I use my real name on social media like Facebook and it doesn't matter to me. As for "forced politeness", I'm not saying everyone has to be polite, I don't care if someone calls me a **** in a game, but discrimination and harrassment are another thing entirely.

 

Well, speak for yourself. I do, the internet should be anonymous if you so choose, with all the good and the bad that comes with that freedom.

 

Whatever happened to sticks and stones?

 

Sure, it's not nice to be called all manner of nasty things, but this is'nt any different to the real world. A female feminist politician will get the exact same abuse and threats that Anita Sarkeesian got. And it's just as hopeless to actually enforce any harassment laws IRL as it is on the internet.

 

This'll make you laugh though, but I think that discrimination laws are in of themselves discrimination. Implies that certain individuals are'nt capable of handling themselves. Also; Freedom of speech and all that.

 

That said, I do think that developers should enforce their rules better in their games.

[Gorgon]

It's all very good to talk about the state of civility in games, but when it comes down to enforcing it, that's always worse. Is there some special case for mysogynists. I don't see it. How are they different all the other idiots.

 

There are different levels of interaction, when one is anonimous and brieftly interacts with someone one never expect to see again some people indulge their baser instincts. Don't be overly offended, that person is probably just letting off steam about something else in an environment where he can get away with it.

[Blarghagh]

He can get away with it because we let him get away with it. I bought the game same as he, the developer spent a lot of time trying to build a community around this environment, why should we let him get away with it?

 

Well, speak for yourself.

 

Uh-Schwaaa? I don't even...

 

Okay, so I said I'm not completely sold on it, that it doesn't matter to me, and that I have no problems with. Everything is stated from my personal perspective and I didn't commit to the idea to do away with anonimity, I only said that I'm personally open to it as a possibility to solve this problem. How on earth am I speaking for anybody else? And this is applied to online video games only - I don't care about the rest of the internet.

 

Whatever happened to sticks and stones?

 

What happened to sticks and stones is that we left elementary school. Words aren't harmless, they can cause permanent emotional damage with long reaching consequences on their life. Especially children, as someone on the first page claimed is most games' target audience.

 

Sure, it's not nice to be called all manner of nasty things, but this is'nt any different to the real world. A female feminist politician will get the exact same abuse and threats that Anita Sarkeesian got. And it's just as hopeless to actually enforce any harassment laws IRL as it is on the internet.

 

Firstly, how exactly does the fact that this happens in real life make it somehow okay? Secondly, how does real life equate to a privately owned space like a video game at all?

 

This'll make you laugh though, but I think that discrimination laws are in of themselves discrimination. Implies that certain individuals are'nt capable of handling themselves. Also; Freedom of speech and all that.

 

Obviously. You can't adress inequality without acknowledging it. As for freedom of speech, it's a privately owned space. For example, if someone here was to spout Nazi hate speech on this board they would get banned because it is expressly forbidden by the board rules. Is the Obsidian Board administration team surpressing Freedom of Speech? No. This guy can spout his hate speech all he wants, just not here.

 

That said, I do think that developers should enforce their rules better in their games.

 

This is what I'm saying.

[Gorgon]

I don't understand how foul language from some tosser you don't know and have only the game in common with would even register on anyone's radar. Just don't validate people who are actively seeking confrontation or negative attention (don't feed the trolls)

 

What's the alternative after all, user mods monitoring the voice chat channels.

[Hurlshort]

If it helps TN, I spend quite a few days in my class teaching digital citizenship.

 

The key here is to get to these kids at a young age and teach them how to play well with others. Parents do this all the time with the real world. My two year old is, by nature, selfish and aggressive. We are constantly reinforcing how to play well with others right now, so that in a few years when he goes off to school he will be successful. You have to do the same thing with the internet.

[Volourn]

I hate bigots. I hate sexist. I hate needless male bashing which seems to be a common theme on the interent and in real life. Some of the mosts exist people I've come across are either female or have a huge anti male stance. Disgusting!

 

 

Sexism is not a male only disease!

[Blarghagh]

Misandry is also discrimination, and therefore would fall under bigotry.

 

I don't understand how foul language from some tosser you don't know and have only the game in common with would even register on anyone's radar. Just don't validate people who are actively seeking confrontation or negative attention (don't feed the trolls)

 

What's the alternative after all, user mods monitoring the voice chat channels.

 

Harrassment often goes much further than "just one tosser saying some nasty things". That's just a marginalization of the problem. I've both seen and heard accounts of people in MMO's literally being followed around for days by groups of harrassers creating new toons simply to constantly hurl vicious insults - despite being able ignore and block users it eventually turns your experience sour because you're constantly having to deal with abuse and discrimination. A lot of women have learned not to let anyone know they're female in games because it tends to create a ****storm of discrimination from groups of people. It's created an environment where many people don't choose anonimity but are forced to hide integral parts of their identity.

 

As for solutions, I don't have any that I know will work, but that doesn't mean there aren't any. Since devs want to keep their customers, I'm thinking permanent bans are out of the question, World of WarCraft shows temporary bans even when people are still paying for subscriptions have only slightly impacted the problem. I'm going to cite James Portnow's idea of auto-muting anyone with enough verified complaints. Only people who actually want to hear the person will unmute him. I don't know how this will work out if actually put to use, but it might work at least to some extent and it seems worth trying.

Edited July 27, 2012 by TrueNeutral

[Gorgon]

sounds more like a minor inconvenience, hardly anything meriting the word 'harassment'. Still, possibly enough to turn one off the game. It's probably why I don't play MMOs anymore. Too many people that annoy me.

[Tigranes]

For example, if someone here was to spout Nazi hate speech on this board they would get banned because it is expressly forbidden by the board rules. Is the Obsidian Board administration team surpressing Freedom of Speech?

 

Oh, the argument's been made. A lot.

[Volourn]

How 'bout just Nazi speech as opposed to Nazi 'hate' speech? Would that be acceptable?

[Blarghagh]

I... urr... erm... what?

[Malcador]

Maybe some speech by Hitler about the economy or something along those lines ?

[Delfosse]

Maybe some speech by Hitler about the economy or something along those lines ?

 

along these lines?

 

[Morgoth]

This thread sort of went totally Fubar, and we're only on page 2.

[Monte Carlo]

The irresistible pull of Godwin's...

[Monte Carlo]

May I also say that 'Gamers Against Bigotry' sounds too worthy, earnest and crap.

 

I cannot march in step with an organisation with this moniker, as all too often the term bigot is used as a weapon.

 

I think we can all agree that 'Gamers Against Jerks' makes more sense.

[Nepenthe]

No, I'm not missing the point. If you're suggesting that we (these fine Obsidian board members) are typical angry gamer nerds that bully women and just generally make asses out of themselves, and that *we* are responsible for such behaviour, then you're dead wrong.

No, the fine Obsidian board members are typical angry gamer nerds that generally make asses out of themselves.

 

(see this thread for evidence of above claim)

Edited July 27, 2012 by Nepenthe

[Orogun01]

Well I for one support gamers against bigotry. People really need to be protected from other people, the solution: bubbles; happy bubbles everywhere.

Let the children vicariously massacre hordes while their avatar wear a skimpy outfits, without being exposed to the life fact that other people often suck.

 

Or they could just implement an ignore function on their chats and please all the whiners.

[Nonek]

I worked for a year in our Glasgow offices, the reception I recieved as an Englishman venturing north of the border somewhat inured me to profanity and sheer scathing hatred. Our Pictish brethren have a natural affinity for frustrated, white faced fury and inventive obscenity that leaves most internet bigotry seeming a little tame in comparison. Just ignore the gentlemen responsible, one is only responsible for ones own behaviour.

[Blarghagh]

Well I for one support gamers against bigotry. People really need to be protected from other people, the solution: bubbles; happy bubbles everywhere.

Let the children vicariously massacre hordes while their avatar wear a skimpy outfits, without being exposed to the life fact that other people often suck.

 

Or they could just implement an ignore function on their chats and please all the whiners.

 

I'm surprised at how often it's been implicated in this thread that gaming is for children. Do you people even know where you are posting?

 

And when I've paid for a product to supply entertainment and escapism, then hell yes I want it to be a happy bubble rather than a place filled with abuse.

 

Or at least a bubble where everyone is allowed to play.

[pmp10]

Well I for one support gamers against bigotry. People really need to be protected from other people, the solution: bubbles; happy bubbles everywhere.

Let the children vicariously massacre hordes while their avatar wear a skimpy outfits, without being exposed to the life fact that other people often suck.

 

Or they could just implement an ignore function on their chats and please all the whiners.

 

I'm surprised at how often it's been implicated in this thread that gaming is for children. Do you people even know where you are posting?

In a very niche gaming community centered around a developer of a dying genre.

You can't seriously claim that we represent any significant portion of player population in online games.

Many here have already admitted that they avoid multiplayer games due to interactions that occurs there.

And yes as a rule - the more popular a title the more child oriented it is regardless of any age ratings.

And it's always the majority that sets the behavioral standards.

[Hurlshort]

It's pretty well established that the biggest consumers of video games are males between the ages 18-30. That is why the more popular titles are NOT child orientated.

 

As a middle school teacher, I can tell you that almost all my students play video games, but it is only a small group of boys that play the games like Call of Duty. Those are the ones that need these lessons, so they don't grow up to be internet douchebags.

[pmp10]

It's pretty well established that the biggest consumers of video games are males between the ages 18-30. That is why the more popular titles are NOT child orientated.

Can't agree here but that's besides the point.

The online behavior many players exhibit is exactly the one they learned as children in the Call of Duty/Halo/Gears of War communities.

The only way for it to even partially improve is to correct their attitude in those games today.

Anybody you know many people ready and willing for missionary work of that sort?

Otherwise they will keep repeating the "harassment is part of our culture" message even when they are 30 just as the fighting community demonstrated.

[Fighter]

I'd rather people had a thicker skin and not be perpetually 'offended' by every dumb thing from an anonymous troll. I kinda like the way internet lets people vent whatever nonsense they might not otherwise say.