Ouch, Bioware... Dragon Age 2, and now this?

[Oblarg]

 

And, your chocies were reflected throughout ME3. Nothing done during the series was 'meaningless'. That's just more over dramatics.

 

Reflected throughout the game, yes. But then the ending comes along and takes a big dump over all of them - with the mass relays destroyed, pretty much none of what you've done matters. The effective state of the galaxy at the end of the game is virtually unchanged by any of your decisions throughout the trilogy. On top of that, it simply offers no closure - all those characters which they've spent so long building and making you care about? **** knows what happened to them. It's just intensely dissatisfying, given the scope of the game before it.

[zero_or_more]

Hm.. I might be thick, but I still don't get it. I mean, why not just write it off as "good game, crap ending" like so many games before it? I even read news on Eurogamer that some nut has started a collection and collected 28000 dollars as a protest against the ending! Wtf?

 

It's when Duke Nukem picks up the devastator and rides the elevator into the stadium to face the Cycloid Emperor... to play tic-tac-toe. No problem with either of them - however you're in an FPS, you expect to actually shoot things. Really undermines the game concepts and since it's the last part of a trilogy the feeling is tripled I guess.

 

However look at the bright side of it: it gave birth to a lot of great gifs and youtube videos to lol at.

 

(Maybe I'm too much of a cynic, but I still expect them to release a DLC - reminds me of Fallout 3 pretty much.)

[Volourn]

"However look at the bright side of it: it gave birth to a lot of great gifs and youtube videos to lol at. "

 

[sorophx]

isn't that the same thing DEHR did? I don't remember people crying about it then

[Oblarg]

isn't that the same thing DEHR did? I don't remember people crying about it then

 

DEHR wasn't a conclusion to a trilogy of games built around a reactive narrative.

[sorophx]

so it's not about the ending without a proper boss then, but an ending to a trilogy? hmmm, I wonder if that's how people had reacted when they saw Return of the Jedi for the first time back in the day

[Oblarg]

so it's not about the ending without a proper boss then, but an ending to a trilogy? hmmm, I wonder if that's how people had reacted when they saw Return of the Jedi for the first time back in the day

 

RotJ's ending was satisfying - ewoks notwithstanding, it provided closure for all the major plot threads and felt reasonably complete.

[Nepenthe]

Hm.. I might be thick, but I still don't get it. I mean, why not just write it off as "good game, crap ending" like so many games before it? I even read news on Eurogamer that some nut has started a collection and collected 28000 dollars as a protest against the ending! Wtf?

It's over 65 000 now.

[Pop]

[Gorth]

I think it's a case of badly managed expectations. BG1 and BG2 were not really advertised as "all your choices r us" or something. I haven't followed the ME3 development nor read any of the ads, but jeebus it (the banners) was all over the internet on every website, including sites not related to video games at all. If those ads promised some kind of "your choices matter to us", then I can understand the outrage. Maybe ignorance really is bliss sometimes?

 

Edit to add: As it was, I mostly got the game and played it to satisfy curiosity. The ending was poor, but not worthy of "nerd rage". Biggest disappointment was the feeling of linearity and the lack of party members from ME2 (some of which were infinitely more interesting than the ME1 ones imnsho).

[Morgoth]

 

They just ran out of time I suppose. Should have skipped that stupid multiplayer mode and diverge the Montreal ressources into creating more art assets for more diverse endings.

 

But whatever. Could have been a lot worse.

 

Suppose the next ME will be either a prequel, or maybe playing somewhere paralell without that Reaper nonsense. Like they already do with the DA series.

[BobSmith101]

Hm.. I might be thick, but I still don't get it. I mean, why not just write it off as "good game, crap ending" like so many games before it? I even read news on Eurogamer that some nut has started a collection and collected 28000 dollars as a protest against the ending! Wtf?

 

Because it's that bad. It's an ending that fails on every possible level and contradicts every statement made about it (hence the FTC complaint).

 

Then just to pile on the insult you have the "Game over insert coins to continue" bit right at the end.

[Lorfean]

I think it's a case of badly managed expectations.

 

This, more than anything, seems to hit the nail on its head IMO.

 

Volourn, you mention how many of Bio's previous games have no variety in their endings either, but I don't think that is where people's problems with ME3's ending(s) lie. They had certain expectations of the trilogy's finale, and these expectations were based on their experiences in ME1 and 2 as well as Bio's marketing of the game... One quick look at the About / Interactive Story section of the official site shows a perfect example of this: "Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome." And what people got was, for many, clearly the exact opposite of what they expected and/or what they felt they were promised.

 

In BG1 I never expected anything more than a confrontation with Sarevok at the end of the game. That was what the whole game worked towards. Same with BG2 and Irenicus -- I was never promised anything more, and never expected anything else than the ability to confront him for what he did to us. With ToB I did expect something special, because it was the final chapter, but I don't remember if BioWare promised anything specific in that regard, and the choice between godhood and remaining a mortal was awesome in my book and provided a fitting and satisfying conclusion to the Child of Bhaal saga. I never expected multiple endings or, for example, for my conversation with Portalbendarwinden in BG1 to factor into my final confrontation with Melissan in ToB... Because the presedence for that kind of stuff was never set in the previous games in the series, and Bio never promised anything along those lines.

 

But they have plastered "your choices matter!" all over the ME series for years now so people had, understandably, great expectations of its ending(s). I am indifferent to the game, but it seems pretty clear to me that BioWare, in large part, has themselves to blame for the negative backlash. Just like with the whole multiplayer-affects-your-singleplayer-exprience and Day 1 DLC debacles.

[Nepenthe]

I think it's a case of badly managed expectations.

 

This, more than anything, seems to hit the nail on its head IMO.

 

Volourn, you mention how many of Bio's previous games have no variety in their endings either, but I don't think that is where people's problems with ME3's ending(s) lie. They had certain expectations of the trilogy's finale, and these expectations were based on their experiences in ME1 and 2 as well as Bio's marketing of the game... One quick look at the About / Interactive Story section of the official site shows a perfect example of this: "Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome." And what people got was, for many, clearly the exact opposite of what they expected and/or what they felt they were promised.

 

In BG1 I never expected anything more than a confrontation with Sarevok at the end of the game. That was what the whole game worked towards. Same with BG2 and Irenicus -- I was never promised anything more, and never expected anything else than the ability to confront him for what he did to us. With ToB I did expect something special, because it was the final chapter, but I don't remember if BioWare promised anything specific in that regard, and the choice between godhood and remaining a mortal was awesome in my book and provided a fitting and satisfying conclusion to the Child of Bhaal saga. I never expected multiple endings or, for example, for my conversation with Portalbendarwinden in BG1 to factor into my final confrontation with Melissan in ToB... Because the presedence for that kind of stuff was never set in the previous games in the series, and Bio never promised anything along those lines.

 

But they have plastered "your choices matter!" all over the ME series for years now so people had, understandably, great expectations of its ending(s). I am indifferent to the game, but it seems pretty clear to me that BioWare, in large part, has themselves to blame for the negative backlash. Just like with the whole multiplayer-affects-your-singleplayer-exprience and Day 1 DLC debacles.

Hear, hear.

[Hassat Hunter]

(not having played ME3 though)

 

Most game endings suck these days. Name one 2010/2011 game with a good ending. And back even before good endings are rare.

Remember KOTOR2? DX:HR (push 1 of 3 buttons to end. Sounds like what's going on here. So why rage here, not there?)? DX:IW? ME2?

etc. etc.

 

EDIT:

Heck, even PS:T, Baldur's Gate 2 and Divinity 2 and similar good RPG's have had a sloppy endgame...

Edited March 19, 2012 by Hassat Hunter

[Nepenthe]

(not having played ME3 though)

 

Most game endings suck these days. Name one 2010/2011 game with a good ending. And back even before good endings are rare.

Remember KOTOR2? DX:HR (push 1 of 3 buttons to end. Sounds like what's going on here. So why rage here, not there?)? DX:IW? ME2?

etc. etc.

Well, I'm going to address this in two ways. First, remember how somebody said that Bioware just stole the Crown for most disappointing ending away from Obsidian and the combination of KOTOR2 and NWN2OC? Secondly, if you haven't played the game, how about you don't ****ing think you know better than those who have?

[Lexx]

(not having played ME3 though)

 

Most game endings suck these days. Name one 2010/2011 game with a good ending. And back even before good endings are rare.

Remember KOTOR2? DX:HR (push 1 of 3 buttons to end. Sounds like what's going on here. So why rage here, not there?)? DX:IW? ME2?

etc. etc.

 

Alpha Protocol, FNV and I really liked the DS3 ending. :>

[Humanoid]

It's interesting to me that the furore over the ending is taking attention away from issues that I personally care more about. Case in point - until reading that Gamebanshee review linked here yesterday, I didn't know that the dialogue railroading was so bad such that there are five minute stretches between dialogue choices. That to me personally seems a bigger deal since it affects how I play as opposed to the wrap-up.

[BobSmith101]

There is a difference between an ending you just don't like and an ending that makes no sense.Even with endings I don't like I can see the reasoning behind them. ME3's ending however fails on every possible level.

[Hassat Hunter]

Secondly, if you haven't played the game, how about you don't ****ing think you know better than those who have?

Because I have seen a share of bad endings or progressively worse getting endgames in almost all RPG's. It's hard to believe this is so bad it needs all this fuss compared to the others like the "3 button ending" of DX:HR. Also many people suddenly claim ME2 ended great. Did they forget the Terminator? How horrible the ending was? :/

[Nepenthe]

This is worse than the three button ending, because it's the three button ending combined with diabolus ex machina, failed leaps of logic and, well, ****. Re: comparison to ME2 ending, remember how DAO suddenly became awesome when DA2 came out? It's part nostalgia, part reaching new levels of fail. Again, you have to play it to understand it, and you have to be invested to feel it.

It's interesting to me that the furore over the ending is taking attention away from issues that I personally care more about. Case in point - until reading that Gamebanshee review linked here yesterday, I didn't know that the dialogue railroading was so bad such that there are five minute stretches between dialogue choices. That to me personally seems a bigger deal since it affects how I play as opposed to the wrap-up.

Can't tell if you haven't played it, in which case you can't really say which is personally worse to you, or you played but didn't notice it, which, well, is answer enough. Personally only noticed really one case of railroading (Thessia aftermath), but it wasn't the thing that took away my enjoyment - the ending was.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Nepenthe

[Humanoid]

Nah, haven't played, but in general for me, "Cinematic gameplay" is a dirty phrase.

[Humodour]

The same developer creating classics for the ages more than once is already highly improbable. In Bioware's case, they did it twice. It's just how creative work happens, never heard of a band than managed to keep making awesome for more than an album or two, either.

 

This is probably one of the most insightful posts I've read in a while.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Krezack

[greylord]

I've always held that ME2 was absolutely awesome.

 

I'll even go and say that the ME series will be the greatest series Bio has made up until this point, perhaps (not necessarily) surpassing the BG series. I don't think the last 10 minutes ruin the series for me, though I think Bio definately needs to do something about the ending of ME3.

[BobSmith101]

Secondly, if you haven't played the game, how about you don't ****ing think you know better than those who have?

Because I have seen a share of bad endings or progressively worse getting endgames in almost all RPG's. It's hard to believe this is so bad it needs all this fuss compared to the others like the "3 button ending" of DX:HR. Also many people suddenly claim ME2 ended great. Did they forget the Terminator? How horrible the ending was? :/

 

Works quite well in Deus Ex. The terminator while a WTF moment does not really matter too much. Building the core of a human Reaper in a human shape seems quite valid , even if it does look like a T-800. In a trilogy you need all the parts for validation, this is why the failure is with ME3 and not ME1/2.