Wasteland 2 Kickstarter

[Oerwinde]

NV did it best. Kill a certain NPC and certain quests immediately failed or were resolved immediately.

 

I wish the same were true with Ulfric Stormcloak and various other twits in Skyrim.

I tried murdering that criminal noblewoman in Riften while she slept because she pissed me off. It woke the whole house and half of them were immortal, which made me even more angry. Turned out I guess she was immortal because she becomes Jarl if you side with the imperials. Stupid game.

[Keyrock]

Gender reactivity in Wasteland 2

 

 

 

If all goes according to plan, Wasteland 2 will be one of the most reactive, choice-driven games to grace PCs since man first rubbed two sticks together and invented the keyboard. Everything from juicy bits of dialogue to party members to entire locations can vanish or appear in an instant, all thanks to your actions. And wastelands, well, they tend to be pretty nasty places, radiation-scorched cesspits of violence, prejudice, and, er, waste. So naturally, some characters are going to hate you for simply being, well, you. inXile’s hinted at the system in Kickstarter updates, but I found myself exceedingly curious about how it’ll all actually come together. Here’s what the developer told me.

 

I adore Fallout 3, but even I’ll admit that it was hardly water-tight. If you poked at it enough, you’d eventually find holes: glitches, uninteresting characters, some sloppy quests, and so on. But there was one area where Bethesda’s Fallout revival fell flat on its face that I honestly didn’t notice until someone pointed it out to me. And truth be told, that fact makes me feel a bit ashamed.

 

We want to be true to the individual characters, and not try to apply some sort of global morality.

No matter what physical sex you chose, the game treated you like a probably-straight male. RPS comrade and Boobjammer extraordinaire Jenn Frank pointed it out in a brilliant piece a while back, and after getting a glimpse of things from her point of view, it became glaringly difficult to ignore. Threats, reactions to my actions, the odd pick-up line – all delivered as though addressed to a default “regular” dude (especially throughout the main storyline).

 

That was bad enough on its own, but really the game just didn’t acknowledge much about what I was or who I was with at all. Sex/gender was only the beginning. And I think that’s a shame because a) it made the world go from living, breathing place to desert of unblinking, defective automaton dolls and b) letting people fully inhabit characters with day-to-day experiences different from their own both enriches those people and makes game characters more interesting. It struck me as a huge missed opportunity, especially in light of the fact that desperate, dog-eat-dog post-apocalyptic situations can explore these topics from angles that fantasy, futuristic sci-fi, and the real world can’t even begin to touch.

 

 

So I was quite pleased to hear that Wasteland 2 will pay close attention to precisely that. Party composition and your various characters’ identities will be under frequent scrutiny by wastelanders’ mistrusting glares, a holdover from the real world turned up to 11 by the fact that this setting isn’t particularly kind to those who hand out free hugs with reckless abandon. Or anyone really, for that matter.

 

At one point during my multi-part Wasteland 2 demo session, we came across a traveling salesman straining muscles and herniating discs to get his cart out of the mud. He seemed nice enough – at least, once we freed his wares from their waist-deep grave. Apparently, however, he could’ve changed his tune in any number of ways if our party had been even the slightest bit different.

 

“Here’s a merchant that turns into a store if you help him get his cart out of the mud,” explained inXile president Matt Findley. “Otherwise he’s just a guy that hates you. The conversation that he has with you is really dependent on so many different factors – the makeup of the party. He has different lines if you come up with an all-women party or if there’s a really high charisma male. There are little flags that he’ll react to.”

 

 

Wasteland 2 isn’t necessarily trying to make a statement, though. Rather, the goal is to portray a world full of interesting individuals – each with their own preferences and prejudices. This place certainly isn’t a kind one, so some will inevitably be ****. Others might give you the benefit of the doubt simply because you’ve picked a certain sex/background or brought a certain character with you.

 

“That particular character loves all-women parties,” Findley continued, still referring to the merchant. “But some characters might not give any information to an all-women party, because they might have a problem with women. The idea is to make each NPC unique in their world view. A guy might be more likely to give women information or more likely to give men information. This guy specifically, I think he says something inappropriate, and then raises his prices.”

 

It’s an admirable attempt at infusing the world with its own internal realism, but also a risky one. What if most of the game’s male NPCs speak to women in overtly (or covertly) sexual fashions, whether being jerky or “nice”? What if a majority of characters of a certain gender or preference end up in negative roles or clustered into joke factions? Or – those concerns in mind – what if inXile ends up playing it too safe, creating an implausible wasteland of rainbow sparkles and butterfly kisses? For his part, Findley was confident that his studio has crafted a balanced, believable setting.

 

“We want to be true to the individual characters, and not try to apply some sort of global morality to all the characters in the world,” he said. “We want to allow the characters to be unique and to have their own world view and to be consistent.”

 

 

But when mechanics are tied closely to character and story, sometimes certain choices can garner preferential treatment despite a developer’s best intentions. Think of morality-based games where the “evil” side grants cooler powers. That sort of thing. In these situations, it’s not that left hand and right hand have never met. It’s that they don’t quite see eye-to-eye, and the message they write together comes out muddled and sloppily skewed. Again, however, inXile is doing its best to make sure nothing slips through the cracks.

 

“Whatever your party makeup, however the world reacts to it, there’s nothing that’s like, ‘This is the right one. This gives you an advantage. This other one is the wrong one.’ There’s enough diversity in the characters that you deal with that no matter how it’s made up, there will be some advantages and some disadvantages,” Findley clarified.

 

“And then some of the reactivity is just cosmetic. It’s just changing the intro line or the exit line. If you come in with an all-women party, the only thing that might change is, when the conversation is over, he’s like, ‘Have a good day, ladies!’ As opposed to just, ‘Have a good day!’ Some of that reactivity just makes it a bit more personal, a bit more unique.”

 

 

 Topics like  preference, prejudice, and discrimination won’t grind to a halt at physical characteristics, either. Wasteland’s world is quite far removed from our own, so it has its own set of histories, oppositions, and even atrocities. Various factions treat each other with utmost contempt, and those morasses of ugly, burbling hatred will color interactions between many characters, festering like a disease. Findley pointed to the Red Skorpions as an especially hateful group.

 

 I actually hope they don't spend too much time trying to make sure that every possible part makeup gets absolutely equal advantages and disadvantages, because then the game will become homogeneous.  Certain characters or party makeups should naturally have life be a little bit tougher for them.  To use an older Obsidian game as an example, I thought in NWN2 if you, for example made a Grey Orc character (like me), it would have been cool if the game was much harsher toward you for much of it.  I mean, most of the game takes place in predominantly human communities, with some elves and dwarves and so on.  It would make sense that an Orc would be discriminated against, perhaps even outright attacked, in such a location, but the game barely notices, and beyond a line here and there, there's no difference whatsoever to playing a human or an elf or a halfling.  Conversely, an Orc character should gain some advantages when dealing with the Orc tribes in the game, but since that's a relatively small portion of the game, those advantages would likely not be equal to all the disadvantages you would get in Neverwinter or Highcliff or any other predominantly human location, and I would be fine with that, in fact I would want it that way.

 

Anyway, it's great to see projects like this focusing on making a living and breathing, believable world through character interaction and reactivity, rather than focusing on shiny graphics, SPLOSHUNS!, and set pieces, then just glossing over character development and reactivity, like so many big budget games do these days. 

Edited August 9, 2013 by Keyrock

[Huinehtar]

An old man comes never back alone: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2/posts/564723

 

Wasteland 1 will be rereleased in the Wasteland 2 copy for backers, and separately, distributed for free for backers in GOG and Steam!

If I understand correctly, Wasteland 1 should remain available after Wasteland 2's release, but not for free of course.

 

[Keyrock]

An old man comes never back alone: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2/posts/564723

 

Wasteland 1 will be rereleased in the Wasteland 2 copy for backers, and separately, distributed for free for backers in GOG and Steam!

If I understand correctly, Wasteland 1 should remain available after Wasteland 2's release, but not for free of course.

 

You've been able to get it as abandonware for years now, though that may change if they put it up on GOG and Steam.  

 

Note: I have no clue as to whether abandonware is legal or not.

 

Edit:  Also, more screenshots!

 

 

 

 

I like that locomotive.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Keyrock

[Zoraptor]

Abandonware is definitely illegal and is a term that has no actual basis. It's just shorthand for "a game that is no longer sold and the copyright holder doesn't issue takedown notices for". It's still piracy, just piracy nobody (well, except the odd brave crusading volunteer corporate warrior, whiteknighting shonky laws and parroting shonky advertising to get meaning in their life) cares about because it isn't costing money.

 

Oh, and because no one else will say it; thanks EA for being so reasonable.

 

 

Nah, good try guys but don't think it'll stop you still being the worst company of all time! Of all time!

 

[Keyrock]

I think it's less a good will gesture from EA and more a shrewd marketing move.  They're not making any money off Wasteland 1 anyway and handing out free copies to the Kickstarter backer can help spread the word about the somewhat forgotten game.  Then when it goes for sale on Steam and GOG they may sell some copies.  Even if it's only a few copies, that's a few more copies than the zero they would have sold otherwise.

[Oner]

Maybe they'll announce Wasteland: Suvival next year. A true FPS sequel to the acclaimed RPG.

[Zoraptor]

I think it's less a good will gesture from EA and more a shrewd marketing move.  They're not making any money off Wasteland 1 anyway and handing out free copies to the Kickstarter backer can help spread the word about the somewhat forgotten game.  Then when it goes for sale on Steam and GOG they may sell some copies.  Even if it's only a few copies, that's a few more copies than the zero they would have sold otherwise.

From the text of the update I presume EA actually sold the rights completely ("after getting the game in our hands[..] we plan on distributing it for free [then selling]"). If they were talking about EA as part of the we they probably wouldn't say 'our hands', as it's always been in EA's hands. Might be overthinking it, but EA has sold most of the Wasteland stuff off to InXile prior, rather than licence it.

 

In any case it clearly isn't pure kindness on EA's part that it's happening, but they could have just sat on the rights which is what most companies do.

[Keyrock]

 

I think it's less a good will gesture from EA and more a shrewd marketing move.  They're not making any money off Wasteland 1 anyway and handing out free copies to the Kickstarter backer can help spread the word about the somewhat forgotten game.  Then when it goes for sale on Steam and GOG they may sell some copies.  Even if it's only a few copies, that's a few more copies than the zero they would have sold otherwise.

From the text of the update I presume EA actually sold the rights completely ("after getting the game in our hands[..] we plan on distributing it for free [then selling]"). If they were talking about EA as part of the we they probably wouldn't say 'our hands', as it's always been in EA's hands. Might be overthinking it, but EA has sold most of the Wasteland stuff off to InXile prior, rather than licence it.

 

In any case it clearly isn't pure kindness on EA's part that it's happening, but they could have just sat on the rights which is what most companies do.

 

Okay.  In any case, it's a smart move by EA rather than the boneheaded spiteful move publishers often do of "the game is making us no money but we'll block any attempt to revive it and potentially make us a few pennies just to be spiteful d-bags".  Whatever deal Fargo and EA struck up is likely a lump sum up front of a percentage of Wasteland 1 earnings for a defined period of time.  In either case, they make a little bit of money where they would have made zero money otherwise.  I'll give EA credit for "doing the right thing" and earning a (likely meager) reward instead of scoffing at said deal and throwing away said (likely meager) reward just to be d-bags.

[alanschu]

I think it's less a good will gesture from EA and more a shrewd marketing move.

 

I don't think these need to be mutually exclusive.

 

 

I don't know any of the details of the arrangement, but I wouldn't be surprised if the rights were fully obtained, given the Steam service (as opposed to, or at least in addition to, Origin).

Edited August 10, 2013 by alanschu

[Labadal]

Maybe they'll announce Wasteland: Suvival next year. A true FPS sequel to the acclaimed RPG.

Wouldn't surprise me if They want their own post apocalyptic game to compete with Fallout.

[Guest Slinky]

 

Maybe they'll announce Wasteland: Suvival next year. A true FPS sequel to the acclaimed RPG.

Wouldn't surprise me if They want their own post apocalyptic game to compete with Fallout.

 

That would be awesome. There sure is room for more post apocalyptic games, and maybe, just maybe, competition might make Bethesda realize how utterly horrible they are at certain things and do something about it.

[Keyrock]

The Bunker: Wasteland Declassified

 

[Guest Slinky]

That would compete with bioware, and only thing you need to compete with them is have a gay romance with a radioactive zombie in the game.

[Humanoid]

Tsk, the proper way to reboot these days is to just name it the same as the original and provide no textual means whatsoever to distinguish between them.

[WorstUsernameEver]

The Bunker: Wasteland Declassified

 

You mean Denuclearized in this case.

[Humanoid]

So it turns out the rest of the world was perfectly fine and had been all along. They just decided they didn't want to talk to America for a while.

[IndiraLightfoot]

With everyone complaining about Shadowrun Returns being far too short, I found this piece of news reassuring. I haven't read the whole thread, so perhaps it's already buried in it somewhere:

InXile founder Brian Fargo told the game’s backers that Wasteland 2 may well be the largest RPG he has worked on to date, and it’s quite a struggle trying to achieve the release goal, even with help of an increased budget.

The goal required to develop Wasteland 2 had been exceeded by two million dollars, and as a result, inXile is attempting to put every dollar to use in making the game.

Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/862722/wasteland-2-release-date-pushed-back/#g8Rou5cd5cgBw5xg.99

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I haven't been following this or going to the InXile forums so I don't know too much about the development. But seeing the latest youtube demo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdmGthYqTbo makes me wonder if Wasteland 2 will be better than Project Eternity. Everything about it is just amazing. Can't wait till I get to play the beta.

[Keyrock]

The goat sounds are hilarious.  Also, I love the 3 Amigos outfit.  I'm really loving how this game is shaping up.

[anubite]

It's a little rough around the edges, the levels are also a bit cramped looking in terms of nagivation? Just a bit railroady. Hard to say, but the second demo does look good despite all that.

Edited August 30, 2013 by anubite

[Walsingham]

I'd been about to wee all over this bag of chips, but judging from the comments it could be good.

[BruceVC]

http://thegamershub.net/2013/09/wasteland-2-preview/

 

Guys another preview of this much anticipated game, some of the information you know about but this article  should just add to the general excitement

[Serrano]

The game is out around a month from now, woo! 

Edited September 8, 2013 by Serrano

[WorstUsernameEver]

The game is out around a month from now, woo!

The beta is. They'll decide on the release date once people are playing the beta and they get their feedback.