Making simple games

[Drowsy Emperor]

I've been considering the idea of making a simple game for a while now, specifically a 2D sprite based RPG. It doesn't really have to be an RPG but it should be a 2D game.

 

The problem is I don't have any real programming experience or any other game development related experience for that matter.

 

For starters I can't make up my mind whether to try software like Game Maker that does a lot of the work for you or to try to learn the basics of a programming language.

 

If I am to pick the latter option, which language should I start with? There are so many languages on the net I get confused at what the advantages/disadvantages are, and how beginner friendly they are.

 

After that issue is resolved (not that that's likely to happen soon) and I have a basic grasp on the language, which software would be the best for making the sprites and other graphical assets?

 

What other skills will be necessary to get this sort of project off the ground? Is this even the right approach to the whole issue?

 

Is making an "indie" game of reasonable production quality even feasible for a single person or is it a fool's errand?

 

The long term goal would be to one day have a decent game to offer on a digital distribution platform like Steam. I know its a long shot, but since I chose a different career path and there's very little chance I'll ever be working in game design professionally - I'm still hoping to make my mark in the hobby I've spent so much time on.

[entrerix]

i don't know the answers to any of your questions, but i wholeheartedly support your endeavor!

[Blarghagh]

Personally, I feel that game maker is a piece of dung and you're better off learning to program or finding a programmer. Even Flash games would be a better alternative to Game Maker.

[Tigranes]

Depends on your timescale, what exactly you want to create, etc - e.g. do you want to create an entire game (even a small one) from scratch, eventually, or do you want to get into / build a small team to do so? Is the type of games you want to make hinging on certain innovations or features that require pretty fundamental changes to the engine, or are you more interested in writing a good story or other such changes that might be accommodated within existing engines?

 

I think modding is a good way to start, take a decent moddable RPG as a kernel and get the experience of finishing something, getting feedback, etc. In the past the best would have been NWN or even NWN2. I think DAO has a pretty strong toolset.

[pmp10]

Is making an "indie" game of reasonable production quality even feasible for a single person or is it a fool's errand?

I'd say that for a single dev without any experience only rouge-like in elaborated middle-ware like flash is feasible.

[Hurlshort]

I wish you luck. I tried this in college with a programmer and artist friend, and we never made it past the planning stages. But we didn't have access to the same stuff you do today.

[Orchomene]

It depends on the time and will you have.

On one hand, learning a language is not a tough part, specifically with the high level languages there exists. But on the other hand, if you don't know how to program at all, you will either spend a lot of time learning it (most specifically architecture and development design), then a lot of time learning how to develop a real project (there are a lot of pitfalls). That's two full time jobs that will require at least two to four years of programing crap, mostly. That is learning and developing a prototype.

 

After that, if what you want to do is designing, then you'd better begin directly with a very high level programing tool, like a game engine. Doing mods is even better for design learning.

[Nightshape]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Programming-Python-Charles-River-Development/dp/1584502584/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1327863570&sr=8-3

 

^ Give that book a try.

 

If you're wanting to develop a small project in 2D and have no experience, that book will help you.

 

If you want to do an actual project, well... Good luck.

[MacMichael]

I've been considering the idea of making a simple game for a while now, specifically a 2D sprite based RPG. It doesn't really have to be an RPG but it should be a 2D game.

 

The problem is I don't have any real programming experience or any other game development related experience for that matter.

 

For starters I can't make up my mind whether to try software like Game Maker that does a lot of the work for you or to try to learn the basics of a programming language.

 

If I am to pick the latter option, which language should I start with? There are so many languages on the net I get confused at what the advantages/disadvantages are, and how beginner friendly they are.

 

I think the standard these days, if you're coding it yourself from the ground up, is C++, though there are other options. With C++ you can create native executable, so .exe files that you can distribute and people just double click to run, though I believe it gets a little more complicated if you're going cross-platform. I just started a small Privateer-like/text adventure style game back in December using Java, mostly because I've worked with GUIs in Java before but never C++, despite having taken classes are both back about a decade ago. Java needs the Java Runtime Enviroment installed on any target system, but seems fairly cross-platform friendly. Can't make an .exe though without special software, unless someone knows otherwise, in which case I'd be interested to know. Flash has been mentioned, plenty of people using that. Cross-platform, as long as Flash is installed, though I've seen Flash programs come as .exes, though I don't know what it takes to get them to that point. Before December I has really done any coding since those classes ten years ago, so there's probably fresher information out there. Also, there's modding which has been mentioned, which is might be a better option if you don't necessarily want to build it from scratch.

 

After that issue is resolved (not that that's likely to happen soon) and I have a basic grasp on the language, which software would be the best for making the sprites and other graphical assets?

 

What other skills will be necessary to get this sort of project off the ground? Is this even the right approach to the whole issue?

 

Determination, dedication, passion. Whatever keeps you working on it three months down the line when you start to realize just what you've gotten yourself into.

 

Is making an "indie" game of reasonable production quality even feasible for a single person or is it a fool's errand?

 

I think this one hinges on what sort of time frame you're comfortable with. A friend of mine recently told me the Space Pirates and Zombies team was two guys and it took them a year and a half. Don't know if it's true. Another friend is working on a personal project, Shadowdawn: Genesis, that I remember him talking about back 10 years ago or more. It's been through some changes in that time. Actually looks like it'll be finished this year.

 

The long term goal would be to one day have a decent game to offer on a digital distribution platform like Steam. I know its a long shot, but since I chose a different career path and there's very little chance I'll ever be working in game design professionally - I'm still hoping to make my mark in the hobby I've spent so much time on.

[sorophx]

http://www.amazon.co...27863570&sr=8-3

 

^ Give that book a try.

http://inventwithpython.com/

http://www.atariarchives.org/basicgames/

 

also check out this thread:

http://rampantgames.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=697&sid=96c33a786e83dd51e95fad791997000a

 

anyway, your best bet would be a good modding tool for an existing game, make a finished mod for starters. it will get you familiar with scripting and how dialog trees work.

 

you could try to use RPG Maker, I know a lot of games made with it, it's fairly simple. Game Maker is even better because it familiarizes you with actual programming without having to learn any languages.

 

when you're done with Game Maker, you should probably begin searching for a better tool, by this time you will have hopefully finished a few projects and gotten familiar with the basics. I've been hearing a lot of good things about Unity

[Drowsy Emperor]

Depends on your timescale, what exactly you want to create, etc - e.g. do you want to create an entire game (even a small one) from scratch, eventually, or do you want to get into / build a small team to do so? Is the type of games you want to make hinging on certain innovations or features that require pretty fundamental changes to the engine, or are you more interested in writing a good story or other such changes that might be accommodated within existing engines?

 

I think modding is a good way to start, take a decent moddable RPG as a kernel and get the experience of finishing something, getting feedback, etc. In the past the best would have been NWN or even NWN2. I think DAO has a pretty strong toolset.

 

I wanted to create an entire game, by myself (to eliminate the problem of depending on other people) from scratch and it would probably be a small one.

Something like the older Final Fantasy games in terms of graphics and complexity, or a 2D adventure like Gemini Rue.

Time is not of the issue, as it would be a hobby thing - getting it done right is more important than getting it done fast.

 

While I do have some ideas that would probably require complex engines (like a magic system that allows a great level of environment manipulation), the better option would probably be to explore new settings and story ideas in already established game mechanics.

 

 

 

http://www.amazon.co...27863570&sr=8-3

 

^ Give that book a try.

 

If you're wanting to develop a small project in 2D and have no experience, that book will help you.

 

If you want to do an actual project, well... Good luck.

 

What's a small project as opposed to an actual project in your terms?

 

I'll look into it. I've seen python recommended in several places.

[entrerix]

if im not mistaken, wasn't Breath of Death 7 made by just one guy? that project sounds almost exactly like what boo has in mind

[mkreku]

My suggestion would be to choose a language and try a smaller project first. C++ is a good language, or Java. Try making Tictactoe or Tetris or Pong or something similar first. If you can manage that, it's definitely possibke to start making a small scale game.

 

 

 

 

Notch apparently made Minicraft in 48 hours

[Nightshape]

http://www.amazon.co...27863570&sr=8-3

 

^ Give that book a try.

http://inventwithpython.com/

http://www.atariarch...org/basicgames/

 

also check out this thread:

http://rampantgames....95fad791997000a

 

anyway, your best bet would be a good modding tool for an existing game, make a finished mod for starters. it will get you familiar with scripting and how dialog trees work.

 

you could try to use RPG Maker, I know a lot of games made with it, it's fairly simple. Game Maker is even better because it familiarizes you with actual programming without having to learn any languages.

 

when you're done with Game Maker, you should probably begin searching for a better tool, by this time you will have hopefully finished a few projects and gotten familiar with the basics. I've been hearing a lot of good things about Unity

 

I think it depends on what skills you're trying to learn. Using an existing engine will teach you some of the skills you'd need, and hey you may even make a game, and in some respects that's worth it. It's a long route, which I feel leaves the end user with massive technical gaps, and a dependency on existing technologies.

 

I would also recommend this as another good way to develop something small and simple: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Building-XNA-2-0-Games-Professionals/dp/1430209798

[Nightshape]

Notch apparently made Minicraft in 48 hours

 

I love it when people exaggerate.

[Nightshape]

if im not mistaken, wasn't Breath of Death 7 made by just one guy? that project sounds almost exactly like what boo has in mind

 

Yeah, Robert Boyd's not bad, he knows to keep what he's doing simple and as a result has released a couple of excellent indie games, but it's still very very simple technology.

 

There is also James Silva, the guy who made the dishwasher series, nice bloke, very modest, he's far more technically competent.

[Gorth]

I think it depends on what skills you're trying to learn. Using an existing engine will teach you some of the skills you'd need, and hey you may even make a game, and in some respects that's worth it. It's a long route, which I feel leaves the end user with massive technical gaps, and a dependency on existing technologies.

 

I would also recommend this as another good way to develop something small and simple: http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/1430209798

There must be a reason though why game developer always use a game engine these days. Maybe they don't feel like constantly re-inventing the wheel?

 

Making a game engine from scratch really only makes sense if you are interested in the tech aspects (or your game revolves around a particular new feature you want to introduce). If you are mostly concerned about the game design and content, it makes sense looking at what's already available. E.g. this thread about Fife (new homepage)

[Hurlshort]

Oh, and learning a programming language seems to be similar to learning a real language, in that for some people it is easy to do and others it is extremely frustrating. I know I tried a few times in high school and other than the bare bones of html, it was completely overwhelming.

[Lexx]

I can shed some light on stuff like the RPG Maker, because as luck would want, today I finished my 7-days game. The last 7 days I have done nothing else than working on a game, watching some Buffy and Angel, did some sleeping and eating, etc... But I don't want to bore with that.

 

So, in my humble opinion, I'd say that the RPG Maker is a good tool for people who haven't done any game cration yet but would want to try it. Especially if you are a realist and want to start small: With some small 2d game, as example. The tool is simple to use and doesn't need much additional scripting knowlede. In fact, you place triggers, click togther some events (if switch A is on, do Y etc.) and it works. From the perspective of someone who knows a bit more than nothing, the tool is too obstructive, though. Exactly because of all this clickery, doing larger stuff bloats up everything.... But if you are new to the party, I really highly suggest to play around with it, even if nothing serious get's out of it. At least you will learn some basics of game creation and get some feeling of how things went- you have an idea, finish up a concept, create a prototype, etc. You just can't do wrong with that.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Lexx

[Drowsy Emperor]

if im not mistaken, wasn't Breath of Death 7 made by just one guy? that project sounds almost exactly like what boo has in mind

 

This is basically, what I have in mind, although I hope I'll be able to do better looking graphics - with a western aesthetic and a more zoomed in view for larger characters. The perspective of many JPG's is too far away from the action for my taste.

 

I'll most likely have to invest in a drawing tablet for that though.

 

Making it a sci-fi RPG (cyberpunk and transhumanism, not space opera) has a particular draw for me because there are so few of them. Post apocalyptic would be a second choice, fantasy a distant third.

 

Other characteristics would be a turn based (in game world, not separate screen) battle system adapted from an existing IP, specifically Eclipse Phase.

 

That system has sweet ideas, like interchangeable bodies for PCs - that fit right into common game mechanics (like dying and magically resurrecting). Who doesn't want to play a hacker inhibiting a nano-swarm?

Edited January 29, 2012 by Drowsy Emperor

[Humodour]

For a non-programmer who wants to developed a 2D game quickly and easily, Python and Pygame are a no-brainer solution. But you still needs a technical mind. Making computer games involves a lot of maths and logic.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Well I got my hands on a basic Python book

I already know how to make it print a simple sentence so I guess full game creation is just around the corner - tune back in when I'm lauded as the next Sid Meier.

 

Thanks for the help everyone! Of course I'm still open for advice...

Edited January 30, 2012 by Drowsy Emperor

[Bos_hybrid]

Don't spend too much time on it in a small time window, pace yourself. Otherwise you could burn out.

 

Also will there be romances?

Edited January 31, 2012 by Bos_hybrid

[Drowsy Emperor]

I believe romance is an integral part of our games. Our otaku fans want it, and fans are of course always right.

 

To promote inter species dialog we are considering the inclusion of romance options for uplift characters.

 

I'm not supposed to speak about this but this is one of our companions. Allan has a gruff exterior, under which lies a sensitive and gentle soul. His favorite pastimes are studying small insects, making tools and writing dialog for video games. He's available for romance for male and female PC's.

 

Edited January 31, 2012 by Drowsy Emperor

[Guest Slinky]

Can I pre-order? I take five copies!

 

Allan better have daddy issues or I wont buy the expansion.