Wikipedia shuts down

[Blarghagh]

MPAA claims they want the legislation they paid for.

 

To essentially admit to large scale corruption and use it as a threat, that's just filthy and confirms everything that has been said about SOPA.

[Orogun01]

Well, I was initially peeved at this MegaUpload situation. That is, until I read the actual indictment, at which point it became abundantly clear that their top executives were shameless criminals and seizure of the domain name was probably justified.

 

I do not wholly condemn end-user piracy, but piracy for profit is despicable, and those guys quite clearly deserve to be in jail.

So how do you feel about the seizure and forced extradition of one of the heads of MegaUpload? Even if you are against piracy that sort of behavior sets a dangerous precedent.

 

Also none of these guys made money directly from pirated content, mostly came from subscriptions and advertisement spots.

 

@TrueNeutral: good post

[Oblarg]

Well, I was initially peeved at this MegaUpload situation. That is, until I read the actual indictment, at which point it became abundantly clear that their top executives were shameless criminals and seizure of the domain name was probably justified.

 

I do not wholly condemn end-user piracy, but piracy for profit is despicable, and those guys quite clearly deserve to be in jail.

So how do you feel about the seizure and forced extradition of one of the heads of MegaUpload? Even if you are against piracy that sort of behavior sets a dangerous precedent.

 

Also none of these guys made money directly from pirated content, mostly came from subscriptions and advertisement spots.

 

@TrueNeutral: good post

 

There are things about this which still do not sit well with me (the RIAA's claimed "$500 million" in damages is ****ing absurd and I sure hope that's not taken seriously), but on the whole I think it's good that the site was taken down given how brazenly criminal the activities of their top executives were. If anything, it's a good example of why we don't need **** like PIPA and SOPA - there already exist perfectly effective legal avenues for pursuing those whose copyright infringement poses a genuine threat to the market.

[Walsingham]

Numbers, old boy. You really should read all my posts before trying to nail me to a door. I already conceded most points. Although I don't concede there's anyting greedy about wanting to get paid for brainwork.

 

I was discussing this further yesterday and the following point clarified. Make of it whhat you will.

 

You have two classes of offenders currently. One group is basically a normal person who occasionally utilises piracy. The other group of persons organises and encourages piracy to make money.

 

The problem is that our legal system can only prohibit behaviour, and since most behaviours of the latter are also those of the former. trouble is that the former are also much more fragile and easily caught than the latter. To hit the latter you need intelligence driven targeted law enforcement. Something neither SOPA or PIPA really deliver. Particularly since much of the actual law enforcement happens abroad.

[Oblarg]

I'd argue, wals, that the two are not inextricably linked and that pursuing the former is a futile endeavor which, even were it successful, would result in, at best, questionable gains for the market.

 

SOPA and PIPA appear to me to be little more than censorship tools dressed up as anti-piracy litigation, promoted by corporations which make money by exploiting restricted distribution in a way which is quickly being made obsolete by the digital age. Record companies and movie publishers are losing relevance, and bills such as these are nothing more than a desperate bid to keep a now irrelevant service profitable by restricting our access to information. In their current form, they are clearly not usable to truly combat piracy. They are usable to shut down websites that would provide alternate avenues to content that do not profit the sponsors of these bills.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Oblarg

[Gorth]

The most efficient way of stopping piracy is to stop making products that can be distributed digitally.

[Gorgon]

Go back to 8 track

[Meshugger]

The problem is that the law is stupid.

 

Edited January 22, 2012 by Meshugger

[Gorth]

Go back to 8 track

 

Seriously though, the system as it is doesn't really work. If people can't handle freedom of information (mis-interpreting it as freedom from accountability for your actions), then you have to either restrict the freedom (never a popular choice) or restrict the information at the source(something you actually can do), by not publishing it.

 

Cloud computing is sort of the baby steps in a new world, where the "MMO Principle" is taken to extremes. People will rent access to their favourite entertainment/software which runs serverside and you'll have a streaming client which accesses your account.

[Gorgon]

Services like that are really starting to catch on. The lack of an offline mode is offset by a huge database at your disposal at a realatively cheap price. People won't bother scouring the web for a torrent when it's already there.

[Hurlshort]

Services like that are really starting to catch on. The lack of an offline mode is offset by a huge database at your disposal at a realatively cheap price. People won't bother scouring the web for a torrent when it's already there.

 

Yep, I'm a big fan of that. I don't really need a bunch of DVD's and CD's sitting around if I have easy access to almost anything I want to hear or watch.

[Rostere]

LOL, the U.S., what can you say... I'm not really surprised, considering the events in the recent decade.

 

I guess eventually, the individual will have no rights against the state/ strong corporations at all over there. This is all a part of a quite recent trend. Strange, how the U.S. is growing more and more like China. People talk of increased Chinese political influence. Well, this is probably not what they meant, but if it was, I'd say the Chinese have done a damn fine job.

 

This post seems pretty silly now that congressmen are running away from this bill in droves. As I said, given the scale of the protests and resistance, the chances of it passing were slim and the odds of it surviving legal scrutiny were even slimmer. So maybe the US isn't quite like China after all.

 

Of course I was exaggerating a lot Really, I don't even think SOPA/PIPA would be the end of Internet like many seem to - if there were corporations taking down wikipedia instead of wikipedia taking down wikipedia, the backlash would be crazy.

 

The things I really think are worrisome are other stuff, regarding surveillance and the judicial system. You'll have to forgive me for trolling a bit for trying to provoke a response regarding civil rights in general. But that discussion would really be a bit OT and it can't be interpreted as anything else than a compliment to this forum that no one took my bait

 

I think the appropriate term for what you were doing was 'being mendacious' rather than 'trolling'.

 

I think "trolling" was perfectly descriptive.

[Zoraptor]

If you're actually happy you didn't get a response then it cannot really be trolling. The classic troll is saying something controversial because you want a(n intemperate) response, after all.

 

There certainly is a point to be made about the US having tools to control the internet that make the Great Firewall look like a 3 year old's lego castle, even without the added context of SOPA/ PIPA.

[Rostere]

If you're actually happy you didn't get a response then it cannot really be trolling. The classic troll is saying something controversial because you want a(n intemperate) response, after all.

 

There certainly is a point to be made about the US having tools to control the internet that make the Great Firewall look like a 3 year old's lego castle, even without the added context of SOPA/ PIPA.

 

Well, the original intent was to pick a verbal fight, but then I changed my mind... So, at the time I wrote it, wouldn't it be considered trolling?

 

Never thought I'd be arguing one of my own posts was actually trolling... :S

[Walsingham]

Then in the spirit of general amity, allow me to call you a troll.

[Zoraptor]

If you're actually happy you didn't get a response then it cannot really be trolling. The classic troll is saying something controversial because you want a(n intemperate) response, after all.

 

There certainly is a point to be made about the US having tools to control the internet that make the Great Firewall look like a 3 year old's lego castle, even without the added context of SOPA/ PIPA.

 

Well, the original intent was to pick a verbal fight, but then I changed my mind... So, at the time I wrote it, wouldn't it be considered trolling?

Interesting question, I guess if trolling were a crime it might at least be Conspiracy to Troll or something similar.

 

If we wanted to be a bit more philosophical we could view saying that it was meant as a troll as a type of meta-troll, where the troll is achieved by saying that something else was meant as a troll?

Edited January 24, 2012 by Zoraptor

[Calax]

THIS JUST IN:

 

MPAA says that the internet shutting down in protest is an "Abuse of power"

 

In other news, the Eye of Sauron called for sanctions against the Shire for the actions of terrorist Hobbits.

[Walsingham]

I hear the EU is doing something similar? Except of course being the EU we can't do ANYTHING about it because the EU isn't a democratic institution.

[Gorgon]

It's an internatioal body, but it elects its own Parliament. For what it is its extremely democratic.

[Walsingham]

You've confused me there, Gorgon. How can an institution which passes laws superceding UK law, and which is not elected by citizens/subjects of the UK be considered extremely democratic?

[pmp10]

You've confused me there, Gorgon. How can an institution which passes laws superceding UK law, and which is not elected by citizens/subjects of the UK be considered extremely democratic?

Because they elect their political representatives to that institution?

[Gorgon]

Well, yes.

 

http://www.europarl....=GB&webTermId=7

 

In UK voting booths, typically bundled into municipal elections, that's how we do it here.The comission is hand picked by individual governments, that would be the international body part of the equation. I don't see how governments could hope to agree on ,say, debt relief to Greece in the EU parliament.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Gorgon

[Pidesco]

You've confused me there, Gorgon. How can an institution which passes laws superceding UK law, and which is not elected by citizens/subjects of the UK be considered extremely democratic?

 

The European parliament's UK representatives are elected by UK citizens.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament

[Walsingham]

Well, if that wiki page is to be believed then I stand corrected.

 

I knew we elected MEPs, obviously. But I was under the impession that the Parliament was effectively neutered.

[Malcador]

Some words from the other side