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Idlemind

DS-III First Impression = wow!

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Hello everyone.. first time poster on this forum.

 

Anyways, I just picked up DS III on a whim off Steam as it was on sale. To be honest all I have heard is how the controls are bad and the camera is broken and how it is NOT a Dungeon Siege sequel... it's just too different from DS I and DS II.. so I was expecting to be let down.. but eventually the great screenshots made me think how can this game be so bad?

 

I played a bit with the other classes but settled on the knight for my first play through, the first level, in the burned out mansion was actually pretty bad.. however I am now up to opening the first causeway and am really impressed with the game I really don't understand what the issues are! Mind you, i have been playing with the Microsoft PC controller from the get-go so that may be in my favour, and also I dropped all expectation of it being a dungeon siege game - which to be honest.. wasn't that great of a series to begin with. DS 1 was innovative and had some nifty load-less technical feature but other than that? And DS II I never enjoyed much, so no love lossed.

 

A few hours into DS III and I started getting the thematic vibes from other games such as Dragon Age and *especially* Jade Empire - any of the dev team from Jade Empire? The combat can get a little technical, I was shocked that I actually had to block or evade attacks.. so that bumped it up a bit in my opinion from the mindless hack and slash. The AI seems to do an alright job with the fire chick, she usually casts an area heal when I need it and revives me when I'm down.

 

Anyways I just felt compelled to come on here and give this game some fanboy service.. I haven't heard anything especially good about it - but coming from someone with a Diablo III beta key, DS III beats the snot out of Diablo III graphically.

 

The only things I can criticize would be the multiplayer (I actaully have to back and see if there is even a multiplayer option) and the loot / inventory management screens.. I dunno I just prefer seeing a character /w slots rather than lists.

 

So... wow what a great find! If this wasn't titled Dungeon Siege III and had a different lore background it probably would have been contender for GOTY... people feel misled about the title seems to be the biggest irk.

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Think it's a combination of things really. Many fans of the original Dungeon Siege were disappointed by it because of the gameplay changes, many people were expecting something different from the multiplayer, and people who are more Obsidian fans were expecting/wanting complex story/roleplaying stuff. I really like the gameplay of DS3 (never liked the first two games) but I have to admit I fall into the last category a bit myself. Think the game is maybe "stuck in the middle" a bit.

 

Anyways, I hope you got the DLC release also when you purchased it. It's quite good and lengthy for a DLC and fleshes out the game nicely!


Listen to my home-made recordings (some original songs, some not): http://www.youtube.c...low=grid&view=0

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Thanks SW - Yes I did get the DLC.. do you recommend completing the core game first or doing the DLC as soon as its an option?

 

BTW Saints Row The Third suffered the same fate - great game, but just not what people wanted / expected from the previous titles.

 

Here is hoping Obsidian takes another swing at the hack 'n slash genre... minus it being a sequel.

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The DLC becomes available in about the middle of the game. You can do it right away or you can wait. I believe you have to do it before you depart for the final areas in the game though.

 

I personally did it as soon as I was available and liked it. It's pretty challenging in parts but that's the fun of it. You will also get crazy loot in there, most of which will last you through the entire game I think.


Listen to my home-made recordings (some original songs, some not): http://www.youtube.c...low=grid&view=0

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Here is hoping Obsidian takes another swing at the hack 'n slash genre... minus it being a sequel.

 

I hope they are allowed to continue the franchise. There are some immense set-ups for future games in DSIII story and lorewise. It would be really awesome to see how Obsidian would handle carrying-over choices.

Edited by C2B

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Holy crap this forum is DEAD eh!!!

 

TLDR version: This game is an enjoyable experience in its own right, but somewhat disappoints because it had the potential to be so much more, but apparently not the budget or development time to fully realize those ambitions.

 

Actually, despite my bitter disapproval of very specific elements of the game (no 2011 game should "lock you out" of 95% of the game once you pass a certain point), there is actually much to appreciate about DS3.

 

I think many people, myself included, were most disappointed because there are many things that are done very well, but it feels like they were not developed to their full potential. The graphics are charming enough for this type of game, so I have no issues there, although a little more variation when it comes to the armor sets would have been appreciated. The combat is, in my opinion, the best thing about this game. I understand why some gamers consider it a bit on the shallow side, because it's fairly simplistic, but I think it's a good thing in this instance. It's not contrived, and very organic. Once you get used to the controls, you can seamlessly switch stances and weapons, and I know MANY people would disagree with me, but I find combat in DS3 superior to combat in juggernauts like Diablo 2. Don't misunderstand, there's some room for improvement, but being able to actively dodge around like an action game is FAR superior to relying on the traditional RPG approach of having a character essentially remain stationary while hacking at enemies which in turn hack at them.

 

If the combat is the best element of the game, then the multiplayer is arguably the worst. It's not that it doesn't work, it's just a tad underwhelming for this age of gaming. The camera is rather wonky, and forces all of the players cameras to conform to the first player's camera. This, combined with the camera being zoomed in too closely, means you can't see what the heck is going on half the time. The beast fight in particular was incredibly frustrating. How can I dodge away from a rampaging behemoth if I can't even see it until it's right on top of me? Also, the "pro bono" take on multiplayer is a real bummer, as you can't take away items or experience if you participate in another person's game. To give credit where it's due, a real gem in DS3 is how the computer AI will take over for another player if they've been afk for a minute or so. This allows you to keep playing if a companion has to drop out for an hour to go grocery shopping or the like.

 

Something that most players admit lacked depth was the loot system. This is a major problem as dungeon crawlers thrive or die based on the sense of reward instilled by the looting system. DS3 is an odd duck here. It's not that it lacks variety, per se. On paper, there are enough stats to keep things interesting, with poison, retribution, doom, etc. The problem is, none of it really seems to matter all that much. You have roughly the same experience going through the game with common gear as you do with endgame rares. In that sense, the loot system feels hollow. Also, some of the "best" gear in the game is purchased from vendors, as static spawns, no less. That sort of defeats the philosophy of exploration and hunting that's supposed to define games like this.

 

The story is actually quite good, but I think people fail to see that because the way it's presented comes across as rather flat at times. The couple of voice acted sequences are somewhat unconvincing, and the bulk of the story, which is pretty detailed, comes via texts that the player discovers around the world, but I doubt that many people spent much time reading them (I did, and somewhat enjoyed them, but only after I finished the game, I found that reading them as I went broke up the action too much).

 

I think, all of this aside, that this game is still a good deal of fun, and players would have overlooked many of the shortcomings if not for the fact that the game is so short. I'll be the first to say that I'll take a 10 hour quality game to 100 hours of mediocrity. The thing is, the loot hunter is a peculiar breed that's supposed to allow hardcore, endgame players to extend the experience for at least several dozen hours optimizing their gear to more effectively combat the most challenging foes. At the end of my roughly 12 hour run in DS3, I could effortlessly demolish any area in this game, and it just didn't reward you for pushing beyond that (even though I'm a lunatic and did so anyway, just to discover a rare glitch that broke my character for being "too good," but that's another post).

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Good, detailed post, ProjektInsanity.

 

Thanks. I had really high hopes for this game (too high, perhaps), and in the end, I enjoyed it quite a bit. The expansion in particular was noteworthy, once I played through the ENTIRE game for the third time because I didn't retain my "Endgame X" save (don't get me started on that design decision). I just can't shake the feeling that there were some major missed opportunities, and if Obsidian gets another go at this, I hope they'll implement a little more variety, allow for customization, and increase the length of the adventure.

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Good, detailed post, ProjektInsanity.

 

Thanks. I had really high hopes for this game (too high, perhaps), and in the end, I enjoyed it quite a bit. The expansion in particular was noteworthy, once I played through the ENTIRE game for the third time because I didn't retain my "Endgame X" save (don't get me started on that design decision). I just can't shake the feeling that there were some major missed opportunities, and if Obsidian gets another go at this, I hope they'll implement a little more variety, allow for customization, and increase the length of the adventure.

 

Thats a fair opinion. Its really nice to see well done posts that bring up issues with the game. DSIII had a few really good ones before too but mostly and especially in the beginning it was a lot of people just bashing the game. Though personally, the issues of the game don't bother me as much. (Not interested in Post-Game content as long as its not story related, only play MP locally and so on). But thats me.

 

If you ever read Nathaniels Blog Interviews here and Anthony Davis post that it was rather low cost (for a full price product). You'll notice that a lot of it is also because it was a rather tightly managed project with a lot of things just falling "out of scoop". That said, I don't really think that was a bad decision considering Obsidians bad track record regarding fun "gameplay" and polish.

 

It would certainly be interesting to see a DSIV that uses DSIII as a base and focuses on content/expanding of features.

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One big point against the game in my opinion is that you can just tell that it was designed for incredible ease-of-use. Linear corridors mostly, not much side-content (well, there is side-content but it's pretty much in the face of the player anyways), breadcrumb trails. It doesn't really give the player to really "maneuver" a whole lot in playing the game. Alpha Protocol had linear levels as well but there you were given a lot of choice in convos and reactivity to that. In DS3, all the dialogue stuff is still very light. It doesn't feel like it affects much of anything except the ending slides.

 

I mean, I thoroughly enjoyed the set-up for most of the choices. The choices are well-written in themselves I think but it just lacks the real "weight". I don't care enough to really get into it. I also like the lore of DS3, there's some good stuff. But I never really cared for the source material and the world of Dungeon Siege in the first place so it still feels rather boring all in all.

 

The combat is the real fun part of the game, and is something I quite enjoy. Still, that's also sort of a blend between action, Devil May Cry-ish combat with a slight seasoning of RPG. I really enjoy some of it but it's not something I will get a craving to do when I'm not playing the game. If I get a tactical RPG combat craving, there are games such as ToEE or Jagged Alliance 2. If I want more action-y combat there are games for that.

 

DS3 feels like it sits so much in the middle of everything. It's like... it's a good game, and I've replayed it a few times now. Have enjoyed all the playthroughs I've done. But it doesn't stick with me much at all. Only OEI game/campaign where this has happened for me before is NWN2 (which, incidentally, is a far worse game/campaign overall). When I finish a game like AP (with all its faults and the fact that it's fairly short) or NV, I sorta think "phew, that was certainly hell of a ride". With DS3, I don't get much of a feeling at all. Hard to explain because.


Listen to my home-made recordings (some original songs, some not): http://www.youtube.c...low=grid&view=0

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I only wish the combat was really Devil May Cry-ish o:)

 

EDIT: I haven't really played them by the way, but I suspect the primary influences were actually games such as Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and the recent Marvel licensed console action-RPGs.

Edited by WorstUsernameEver

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So far in the 5 or so hours I've spent with it, the game has not disappointed me. I can see where it's got its highs and lows, but with the expectations I had going in, it all works out in the end.


What makes a man worthy? Is it his lust for life, his passion for power, or his wisdom for withstanding the deeds of others?

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Snagged the Xbox version on the cheap yesterday. Plays a lot better than the PC version, but the text is unreadable on a 27 inch TV. Couldn't figure out how to activate my defensive ability because I didn't know what the icon was because it was so small.


The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity.

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It's a good game, but Snowblind kind of moved things on with War in the North (bugs aside).

 

Any sequel really needs to be going in that direction.

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My two cents:

This game has no superior when it comes to the specific niche it fills. Think about this:

1) What other couch co-op RPGs are there?

There's Magika, Dungeons & Dragons: Daggerdale, and uhhhh... Crimson Alliance isn't really an RPG. Neither is Marvel Ultimate Alliance.

 

2) How many co-ops do you know of that allow players to vote on dialog choices?

None of the aforementioned games even have dialog choices at all.

 

------

 

Granted, I'd choose Fallout New Vegas over DS3 if I'm playing alone, but this game made it possible for me to enjoy a real RPG while spending time with my girlfriend. She likes playing LEGO games and Torchlight, but can't handle FPSs or the like. She can't even stand split-screen. DS3's controls are so easy, you can play co-op with someone who isn't necessarily a gamer.

 

The story is on par with the greatest RPGs out there, and the combat is fluid and intuitive.

I seriously can't relate to anyone who doesn't like this game.

It's the only fully-featured, hardcore couch co-op RPG there is; it has no equal.

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I only wish the combat was really Devil May Cry-ish :(

 

EDIT: I haven't really played them by the way, but I suspect the primary influences were actually games such as Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and the recent Marvel licensed console action-RPGs.

 

AAAAActually, that's not really entirely true. While I definitely played quite a bit of X-Men Legends (as a tester) we didn't really look that much at the Marvel games as an influence for DS3. The bigger influences on the combat actually WERE games like Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden. Our dodge mechanic was pretty much straight from NG, and aspects of DMC inspired early thinking about the ability system.

 

Obviously the other big influence was games like D2, WoW, etc.on the more stat-y/ability/levelup progression side of things. There were some other odd influences (Demon's Souls, ICO and League of Legends actually influenced some aspects of boss fights, for instance).

 

I will also say that Rich (project director) and I are huge fighting game fans. If you dig down, the resource mechanic (which Rich came up with and was awesome IMO) is VERY fighting game influenced.

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AAAAActually, that's not really entirely true. While I definitely played quite a bit of X-Men Legends (as a tester) we didn't really look that much at the Marvel games as an influence for DS3. The bigger influences on the combat actually WERE games like Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden. Our dodge mechanic was pretty much straight from NG, and aspects of DMC inspired early thinking about the ability system.

 

Obviously the other big influence was games like D2, WoW, etc.on the more stat-y/ability/levelup progression side of things. There were some other odd influences (Demon's Souls, ICO and League of Legends actually influenced some aspects of boss fights, for instance).

 

I will also say that Rich (project director) and I are huge fighting game fans. If you dig down, the resource mechanic (which Rich came up with and was awesome IMO) is VERY fighting game influenced.

 

I was half-joking, but if I had to chose between a less or a more DMC-influenced DSIII* I would have chosen the latter. I'm well aware that moving even further from the gameplay design of the originals would have pissed the fanbase immensely and it probably wouldn't have been the right move, it's just a personal preference.

 

* at least in terms of combat options and navigation of the environments... not sure how that would have suited a co-op friendly environment though I suspect it would have ended up fairly close to Dragon's Dogma, which I loved despite its many problems.

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I am in the same boat as the OP. Now, I am not that much into games with a high hack and slash element, and what I read of DS III was mixed at best. So I didn't exactly rush to the store to buy this game. But when it was on Steam for, quite honestly, a steal, I figured I would give it a go. And honestly, I was pleasantly surprised; it really is a good game, for what it sets out to do. And well, even the story managed to grip me, something I really didn't expect from what I saw as a purely hack and slash game. I managed to have a good time with this game on my first playthrough with Anjali, and I doubt it will be my last. For anyone still on the fence, give it a go, if you're willing to accept this game for what it is you'll have a blast like I did.

Edited by JadedWolf

Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.

 

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This game's boss battles had a Ninja Gaiden feel to them, Ninja Gaiden is the only game I've ever returned to Gamestop because I abhored it. The one shot boss hits that are more random than avoided through skill get tiresome. That's my major complaint and why I gave up after halfway through the game. If they did a sequel I would not play it or purchase it.

 

I did enjoy the game's story and the combat between boss battles which was challenging but not frustrating, their was a good balance but when it came to the boss battles it was not fun, it was just frustrating when it seemed they were based more on luck than anything else. The Davae for instance has one attack that you can avoid if you aren't standing still which is cool, you just run around and stop intermittently to fire but if you end up stopping at the same time as the Daeva fires her attack you are dead before you can hit your block or roll out of the way. 2k hp plus in one second is not a attack it's a character wipe. The boss battles broke this game for me, if I can't beat the game on normal with out having to go through the same boss battle more than 6 times then I count it as fail. I don't want to waste that much time into something that basically is more luck than skill.

 

I talked to some people who teach programming and game design and they agree that the game was designed with a niche gamer in mind and that gamer typically goes for the aabbcccddeeefff button mashing games as opposed to RPG's which Dungeon Siege has always been, the combat just seems really out of place. The character development is a joke and the equipment drops are laughable. Your only stat you see a significant improvement in are attack/will/stamina those three will define any character the rest our incidental.

 

Over all if I were to grade this game the following....

 

Character Development: C

Combat: F (Combat is fun until you get to certain battles where you get one shot killed, that is automatic fail.)

Graphics: A+

Storyline: B+

RPG Element: D

 

Where it tried to capture some strong RPG elements from games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect, it failed to this by implementing frustrating boss battles and stat and equipment systems that failed miserably. That left the most important element in a dungeon crawl RPG, loot, to be unimportant to the point where I bypassed chests after awhile because I knew nothing was going to make a dramatic difference in my character. You can literally use your starter equipment 80% of the way through the game and not notice a huge difference.

 

Overall the game gets a C- in my book. Which is sad it could have been so much more if they had tweaked the boss battles and changed the loot system to be something fun and fundamental rather than incidental.

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