Pepper spray

[Walsingham]

Putting our own demonstrators in the same breath as those in Tahrir Square or Triploi is ****ing disrespectful. Any live rounds fired outside our Parliament? I don't bloody think so.

[Gorgon]

Demonstrations like this are part of the democratic process, it generally works best if the police are good at handling them, that includes methods used to disperse crowds, respecting civil rights and the freedom of the press etc. Water cannons are a good compromise, they get the job done, are entertaining to watch, so the demonstrators get coverage, and they don't hurt anyone beyond a few bruises.

[Malcador]

Cops really don't like cameras, hmm.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Rather, DHS is answerable up a chain of command: first, to New York Representative Peter King, head of the House homeland security subcommittee,

lol, truly, the ignorance of that woman is stunning. She either gets her info from conspiracy theorists or Deus Ex, much like Krezack does.

[Walsingham]

Rather, DHS is answerable up a chain of command: first, to New York Representative Peter King, head of the House homeland security subcommittee,

lol, truly, the ignorance of that woman is stunning. She either gets her info from conspiracy theorists or Deus Ex, much like Krezack does.

 

I don't recall reading any conspiracy theories from Krez. And I tend to jump all over them, so you'd think I would if he had.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Rather, DHS is answerable up a chain of command: first, to New York Representative Peter King, head of the House homeland security subcommittee,

lol, truly, the ignorance of that woman is stunning. She either gets her info from conspiracy theorists or Deus Ex, much like Krezack does.

 

I don't recall reading any conspiracy theories from Krez. And I tend to jump all over them, so you'd think I would if he had.

 

I was referring to this:

Man, playing Deus Ex right now and these guys really hit the nail on the head with a worst-case scenario of the USA's future. It's so poignant because it's so easy to see how the USA could go from point A (now) to point B (Deus Ex corporate anti-terror dystopia).

Considering Deus Ex is based on conspiracy theories about FEMA setting up concentration camps and so on (I assume he meant HR). Anyway, it was more of a joke, I didn't mean he acutally believes in conspiracy theories, just takes the worst case scenarios based on those a bit too seriously.

[Walsingham]

I was referring to this:

Man, playing Deus Ex right now and these guys really hit the nail on the head with a worst-case scenario of the USA's future. It's so poignant because it's so easy to see how the USA could go from point A (now) to point B (Deus Ex corporate anti-terror dystopia).

Considering Deus Ex is based on conspiracy theories about FEMA setting up concentration camps and so on (I assume he meant HR). Anyway, it was more of a joke, I didn't mean he acutally believes in conspiracy theories, just takes the worst case scenarios based on those a bit too seriously.

 

Ah, I see what you mean. Apologies.

[Gfted1]

Oh look, now the Occupy crowd are giving themselves homes.

 

I gotta admit, its not a bad racket. I should give myself a house then go to the bank and give myself a few million dollars. But here I sit, working like a chump.

[Humodour]

Oh look, now the Occupy crowd are giving themselves homes.

 

I gotta admit, its not a bad racket. I should give myself a house then go to the bank and give myself a few million dollars. But here I sit, working like a chump.

 

"Occupy activists descend on Brooklyn on first day of campaign to move homeless people into buildings foreclosed by US banks"

 

Just a few corrections for you there Gfted1: 'they' are moving homeless people (not themselves) into empty foreclosed homes.

 

Whether you agree with it or not, you're clearly trying to spin it negatively.

[Gfted1]

Oh look, now the Occupy crowd are giving themselves homes.

 

I gotta admit, its not a bad racket. I should give myself a house then go to the bank and give myself a few million dollars. But here I sit, working like a chump.

 

"Occupy activists descend on Brooklyn on first day of campaign to move homeless people into buildings foreclosed by US banks"

 

Just a few corrections for you there Gfted1: 'they' are moving homeless people (not themselves) into empty foreclosed homes.

 

Whether you agree with it or not, you're clearly trying to spin it negatively.

 

Yes, because its their property to seize and give away. Whether they give it to homeless or retarded nuns, its their movement performing illegal actions. Everyone involved should have been pepper sprayed and hauled to jail.

[Humodour]

Oh look, now the Occupy crowd are giving themselves homes.

 

I gotta admit, its not a bad racket. I should give myself a house then go to the bank and give myself a few million dollars. But here I sit, working like a chump.

 

"Occupy activists descend on Brooklyn on first day of campaign to move homeless people into buildings foreclosed by US banks"

 

Just a few corrections for you there Gfted1: 'they' are moving homeless people (not themselves) into empty foreclosed homes.

 

Whether you agree with it or not, you're clearly trying to spin it negatively.

 

Yes, because its their property to seize and give away. Whether they give it to homeless or retarded nuns, its their movement performing illegal actions. Everyone involved should have been pepper sprayed and hauled to jail.

 

And I'm performing an illegal action when I smoke a joint with my mates. Boo hoo. Good on them. Your country has become ****ing backwards and it's good to see people finally deciding to shake things up. Especially when the response from people like you is "pepper spray them and haul them off to jail".

[Hurlshort]

Oh look, now the Occupy crowd are giving themselves homes.

 

I gotta admit, its not a bad racket. I should give myself a house then go to the bank and give myself a few million dollars. But here I sit, working like a chump.

 

"Occupy activists descend on Brooklyn on first day of campaign to move homeless people into buildings foreclosed by US banks"

 

Just a few corrections for you there Gfted1: 'they' are moving homeless people (not themselves) into empty foreclosed homes.

 

Whether you agree with it or not, you're clearly trying to spin it negatively.

 

Yes, because its their property to seize and give away. Whether they give it to homeless or retarded nuns, its their movement performing illegal actions. Everyone involved should have been pepper sprayed and hauled to jail.

 

And I'm performing an illegal action when I smoke a joint with my mates. Boo hoo. Good on them. Your country has become ****ing backwards and it's good to see people finally deciding to shake things up. Especially when the response from people like you is "pepper spray them and haul them off to jail".

 

The problem here is these foreclosed homes are going to go to auction, and then they are going to be sold 'as is' to some family looking to try and capture the American dream, and they are going to get stuck cleaning homeless feces off the walls of their new home.

 

The fact is this does nothing to help the economy. We are in this mess because property values plummeted, how does it help anyone to drive them further in the ground by putting a bunch of transients in them? Do you think these homeless people are going to do a little maintenance and garden work? Maybe spruce the place up?

 

I actually have a condo in foreclosure right now. I am trying to short sale it and the bank is working with me. It is slow and painful, but if some bum moved in because the place is vacant right now, it would only create problems for me, not the bank.

[Gfted1]

And I'm performing an illegal action when I smoke a joint with my mates. Boo hoo. Good on them. Your country has become ****ing backwards and it's good to see people finally deciding to shake things up. Especially when the response from people like you is "pepper spray them and haul them off to jail".

 

In your mind, "smoking a joint with your mates" is the same as forcibly taking anothers property and "giving it away" to someone? Wow, way to depart from reality. While examining countries, you may want to look inward on what makes you think that way.

[Humodour]

I don't agree with what they're doing - there are more constructive ways to raise awareness of their society's problems. But it's definitely refreshing to see US citizens finally getting off their fat arses and standing up for what they believe instead of letting extreme capitalism triumph to the point it morphs into corporatocracy. And I CERTAINLY have far less of an issue with what these people are doing than the behind the scenes corporate lobbying going on, the federal and state government handling of this movement (and the general apathetic acquiescence of US citizens to the police brutality), or what your government (which right now is the **** Democrats) is continuing to do to erode civil rights and **** with the planet (e.g. SOPA, ACTA, and the large US diplomatic campaign on other countries not to act on climate change).

 

It's just nice to see people questioning the direction of the USA for once instead of letting corporate lobbying and the extremism of the Republicans dictate just how far to the right the Democrats should go.

 

The pathetic quality of US political and socioeconomic discourse unfortunately leaks through into the discourse in my own country (and many others), with rather horrible results. Hence why what happens in the US riles me so. Part of that problem does belong with my own country - in that you are right. We certainly need to discard these fanciful notions of American exceptionalism (and the accompanying fixation with capitalism for capitalism's sake) if we want to be able to succeed in the modern era, because the USA's handling of its political, social, and economic affairs is anything but exceptional.

[Volourn]

Except for the fact that one of the major reasons why the US economy is not as high as it sued to be is bvecause of the so called 'common folk' being stupid enough to take out loans theyw ere fully aware they would never be capable of repaying back. That's 100% on them, and their own damn stupidity. I don't feel sympathy for the morans who did that. Or the banks who werre stupid enoguh to issue such loans. Both should be allowed to fail.

[Gorgon]

Hold on now, the 'common folk' were given subsidized loans to be able to own their own homes as part of a government programme and mortgages marketed to them that left them with very small margins if the economy ever got worse. While getting yourself into a jam like that is your own fault, it's also entirely predictable that it would happen on a large scale. Surely saying that people are just stupid is missing the point entirely.

[Hurlshort]

It would have been pretty hard to predict that my condo would lose 75% of its value in two years. There was no precedent for that. Heck, if people could sell these properties anywhere near what they paid for them, we wouldn't be in this pickle.

[Walsingham]

And I'm performing an illegal action when I smoke a joint with my mates. Boo hoo. Good on them. Your country has become ****ing backwards and it's good to see people finally deciding to shake things up. Especially when the response from people like you is "pepper spray them and haul them off to jail".

 

In your mind, "smoking a joint with your mates" is the same as forcibly taking anothers property and "giving it away" to someone? Wow, way to depart from reality. While examining countries, you may want to look inward on what makes you think that way.

 

Have to say, I agree. Irrespective of Krez' caveat to the effect of not condoning it.

 

'Revolutionary' actions like this merely alarm the public, and justify clampdown. Makes for sexy ideologues and fond memories but also makes things worse. If only by distracting from the serious malfeasance in circles of power.

[Hurlshort]

You know what I thought was the best of these protests? The one where you took your money out of the large banks and went to credit unions and local banks. That made actual sense and might actually force changes to our current economy. And it supports local and small businesses.

[Walsingham]

You know what I thought was the best of these protests? The one where you took your money out of the large banks and went to credit unions and local banks. That made actual sense and might actually force changes to our current economy. And it supports local and small businesses.

 

Indeed. That does make sense. Rather reminiscent of MLK's point about economic power.

 

However, one 'side-effect' (tinfoil hat alert) of recent years is how everyone is tied to a mortgage. Even I've become more docile since I got one.

[Zoraptor]

Except for the fact that one of the major reasons why the US economy is not as high as it sued to be is bvecause of the so called 'common folk' being stupid enough to take out loans theyw ere fully aware they would never be capable of repaying back. That's 100% on them, and their own damn stupidity. I don't feel sympathy for the morans who did that. Or the banks who werre stupid enoguh to issue such loans. Both should be allowed to fail.

It's pretty much entirely the banks'/ financial institutions or at a pinch the regulators fault. An ordinary person is definitively not supposed to be an expert on matters financial and if told that they can pay back a loan will inherently believe the expert. Banks definitely are supposed to be experts, as is the government. If a bank is willing to issue a loan there is an implication (or obligation, if you have anti predatory loan legislation) that the loan should be able to be repaid in the vast majority of cases- traditionally foreclosure is an extremely poor outcome for all involved, including the bank. If you as a financial institution are deliberately designing loans in the knowledge that a high proportion will not be repaid and an even higher proportion won't if the economy worsens then you should shoulder the vast majority of blame as you have (1) designed the agreement (2) designed the implementation (3) have the requisite expert knowledge for things like asking and modelling what happens if house prices start dropping instead of increasing.

 

Much as our banks here are a bunch of vile piratical Australian interlopers determined to gouge as much cash as possible they're infinitely better than those elsewhere for the simple reason that they didn't loan money stupidly and stayed well away from the snake oil derivative market.

[Volourn]

."An ordinary person is definitively not supposed to be an expert on matters financial and if told that they can pay back a loan will inherently believe the expert. "

 

Bull. Only if the 'ordinary perosn' is an absolute moran. If you are making 20k a year you should be even asking for loans of upwards of 100k. It's ridiculous. I've been offered all sort sof things I obviously could not afford. I said no.

 

Sorry, people need tot ake eprsonal responsibility for their stupidity. Period.

[Gorth]

Sorry, people need tot ake eprsonal responsibility for their stupidity. Period.

But that's exactly what a lot of them did, asking for advice from the supposed experts in matters they themselves don't know anything about.

[Volourn]

They have final choice on what to do with their money or whether or not they seek out a loan. Unless you show they had a gun pointing at them forcing them to sign such a silly deal they are 100% responsible for their choices. If that incldues to choose to listen to bogus advise that is 100% on them.

 

People and companies should be allowed to fail if they make poor chocies. The bankss crewed up and so did the individuals. No mercy for either.

[Hurlshort]

They have final choice on what to do with their money or whether or not they seek out a loan. Unless you show they had a gun pointing at them forcing them to sign such a silly deal they are 100% responsible for their choices. If that incldues to choose to listen to bogus advise that is 100% on them.

 

People and companies should be allowed to fail if they make poor chocies. The bankss crewed up and so did the individuals. No mercy for either.

 

Hmm, nevermind, decided to rethink my argument.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Hurlshot