Wrath of Dagon Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Putting HG Wells in the same sentence as ME is a sacrilege in itself. The only level of story telling Bioware has risen to lately is the level of a children's cartoon, and I'm being charitable. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaesun Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 ME= every sci-fi drama ever=H.G Wells, Verne And this is where Bioware succeed. it's the only Bioware game I am interested in anymore. Lastly, lets be real here. The standard of prose quality, plotting, and characterization in classic science fiction isn't particularly high. Sci-fi is niche-popular because the ideas that the stories contain have a peculiar appeal to a particular type of reader. ME's writing doesn't hit those notes all that often (and when they do, it's usually in a throw-away description of a random scannable planet), but in terms of writing believable characters, I'd put ME ahead of a good number of classic sci-fi authors. Had Bioware chose to make another SERIOUS BUSINESS Action RPG, it would have failed miserable. It however works just fine in a B-Grade Sci-Fi space soap opera, which is always what Bioware said it is. Also the pruning of pretty much any recognizable RPG elements also worked in it's favor. It actually made it a far better Game, and much more enjoyable. This however does not translate well into a Serious Fantasy Action RPG, as they are now discovering. Some of my Youtube Classic Roland MT-32 Video Game Music videos | My Music | My Photography Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 "Obsidian has crafted some of the most interesting stories in gaming and has managed to take BW games further than the originals." OBSIDIAN FANBOY ALERT TROLLING A BIOWARE THREAD!!! P.S. more seriously, I like Obsidian too but some people really overrate their story writing - espicially after AP and SOZ. Not to mention the perfectly acceptable but overrated KOTOR2. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 "Obsidian has crafted some of the most interesting stories in gaming and has managed to take BW games further than the originals." OBSIDIAN FANBOY ALERT TROLLING A BIOWARE THREAD!!! P.S. more seriously, I like Obsidian too but some people really overrate their story writing - espicially after AP and SOZ. Not to mention the perfectly acceptable but overrated KOTOR2. Give credit where credit it's due. Storywise: Kotor2>Kotor NWN MoB>>>>NWN I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 "Obsidian has crafted some of the most interesting stories in gaming and has managed to take BW games further than the originals." OBSIDIAN FANBOY ALERT TROLLING A BIOWARE THREAD!!! P.S. more seriously, I like Obsidian too but some people really overrate their story writing - espicially after AP and SOZ. Not to mention the perfectly acceptable but overrated KOTOR2. Give credit where credit it's due. Storywise: Kotor2>Kotor NWN MoB>>>>NWN That's a pretty unfair comparison. If you want to compare NWN to NWN 2, or the NWN expansions to one another, that's another thing. But comparing a base game to an expansion is a bit of a reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bos_hybrid Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Give credit where credit it's due.Storywise: Kotor2>Kotor NWN MoB>>>>NWN KoTOR>>>KoTOR 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Give credit where credit it's due.Storywise: Kotor2>Kotor NWN MoB>>>>NWN KoTOR>>>KoTOR 2 Rofl, wat? If you're a fan of horrid writing and shallow, one-dimensional characters, I guess. "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 That's a pretty unfair comparison. If you want to compare NWN to NWN 2, or the NWN expansions to one another, that's another thing. But comparing a base game to an expansion is a bit of a reach. We are only talking about the story's quality here, not gameplay. Purely based on the story, which would you say was better? I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreasyDogMeat Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Give credit where credit it's due.Storywise: Kotor2>Kotor NWN MoB>>>>NWN KoTOR>>>KoTOR 2 Rofl, wat? If you're a fan of horrid writing and shallow, one-dimensional characters, I guess. I really enjoyed KoTOR and didn't find the writing all that horrible. That said I agree that KoTOR 2 was a better game (except for the ending). KoTOR 2 was probably the most mature version of Star Wars I've ever seen. I can see how this might of been a problem for the kid-friendly image of the series, but I loved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) I really enjoyed KoTOR and didn't find the writing all that horrible. That said I agree that KoTOR 2 was a better game (except for the ending). KoTOR 2 was probably the most mature version of Star Wars I've ever seen. I can see how this might of been a problem for the kid-friendly image of the series, but I loved it. From what I've read, Chris Avellone sort of went into it with the purpose of inverting most of the standard star wars tropes. Kreia was pretty much his personal commentary on how silly the entire light side/dark side dichotomy is. My favorite part about the game (apart from Kreia) is how he retconned Revan's character into being far more interesting, by introducing the whole "distinction between a fall and a sacrifice" concept and implying that Revan had some ulterior motive which mandated his "fall." I really wish I could have seen where they'd have taken KotOR3 along those lines. Of course, BioWare decided to **** all over the whole thing with SW:TOR, which reduced Revan to a simple, uninteresting character again. Edited March 18, 2011 by Oblarg "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorstUsernameEver Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I like Kotor2 a lot but I think that the whole "shades of grey" thing was a bad decision. It really doesn't fit the universe and Kotor2 feels, at times, like it's set in another setting despite the aesthetic and all the lore. Still, it's a very good game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2B Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) "Obsidian has crafted some of the most interesting stories in gaming and has managed to take BW games further than the originals." OBSIDIAN FANBOY ALERT TROLLING A BIOWARE THREAD!!! P.S. more seriously, I like Obsidian too but some people really overrate their story writing - espicially after AP and SOZ. Not to mention the perfectly acceptable but overrated KOTOR2. Give credit where credit it's due. Storywise: Kotor2>Kotor NWN MoB>>>>NWN That's a pretty unfair comparison. If you want to compare NWN to NWN 2, or the NWN expansions to one another, that's another thing. But comparing a base game to an expansion is a bit of a reach. Well, the result wouldn't change. Also ITT people arguing with Volourn over Bioware vs Obsidian. Edited March 18, 2011 by C2B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Star Wars universe has always had Jedi that followed neither the dark side or light side. For instance, KOTOR had Jolee Bindo. The difference with Kreia is that he doesn't shove his philosophy in your face the entire game. What doesn't fit is having a supposedy "grey" character with the goal of destroying the Force itself... such a character is ironically the most evil to have ever appeared in SW, since death of the Force equals the death of all life. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2B Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Star Wars universe has always had Jedi that followed neither the dark side or light side. For instance, KOTOR had Jolee Bindo. The difference with Kreia is that he doesn't shove his philosophy in your face the entire game. What doesn't fit is having a supposedy "grey" character with the goal of destroying the Force itself... such a character is ironically the most evil to have ever appeared in SW, since death of the Force equals the death of all life. << ... Just for the sake of arguing. How do you figure that the death of the force equals the death of all life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) ... Just for the sake of arguing. How do you figure that the death of the force equals the death of all life? Basic Star Wars lore. The Force flows through every living being, connects all life. It is not an independent entity, as Kreia believed to be. Edited March 18, 2011 by virumor The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2B Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) ... Just for the sake of arguing. How do you figure that the death of the force equals the death of all life? Basic Star Wars lore. The Force flows through every living being, connects all life. It is not an independent entity, as Kreia believed to be. That still doesn't make it an necessity to live. Also thats not exactly Kreias belief. More specific, please? Edited March 18, 2011 by C2B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanoid Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Have to admit I never played KoTOR2 despite owning it. I dislike Star Wars though, so maybe in its non-Starwarrishness I'll have more motivation to play. I like the setting best when it mostly ignores the mystical and fantastical Force/Jedi/etc stuff, a'la the original Dark Forces where you couldn't wield a lightstick, or the space combat games which were mostly conventional to the genre. L I E S T R O N GL I V E W R O N G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bendu Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 EA confirms March 29 release for Mass Effect 2 Arrival DLC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I really enjoyed KoTOR and didn't find the writing all that horrible. That said I agree that KoTOR 2 was a better game (except for the ending). KoTOR 2 was probably the most mature version of Star Wars I've ever seen. I can see how this might of been a problem for the kid-friendly image of the series, but I loved it. From what I've read, Chris Avellone sort of went into it with the purpose of inverting most of the standard star wars tropes. Kreia was pretty much his personal commentary on how silly the entire light side/dark side dichotomy is. My favorite part about the game (apart from Kreia) is how he retconned Revan's character into being far more interesting, by introducing the whole "distinction between a fall and a sacrifice" concept and implying that Revan had some ulterior motive which mandated his "fall." I really wish I could have seen where they'd have taken KotOR3 along those lines. Of course, BioWare decided to **** all over the whole thing with SW:TOR, which reduced Revan to a simple, uninteresting character again. In KOTOR Juhani actually tells you Revan wasn't so bad, and he started out acting for the greater good, so I think you're misrepresenting KOTOR Revan a bit. Sure, Obsidian expanded on that idea. As far as the story, yes K2 is better in the beginning, but then it gets very muddled. The point of KOTOR wasn't the story anyway, it's was exploring the Star Wars universe, and they did it better than any of the movies IMO. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) The point of KOTOR wasn't the story anyway, it's was exploring the Star Wars universe, and they did it better than any of the movies IMO. I can't agree. KOTOR diverges from Star Wars on so many points that the only thing that seems to connect them are laser swords and a few visual cues. Well, that and the elements shared by most fantasy/space opera. Edited March 18, 2011 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2B Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 The point of KOTOR wasn't the story anyway, it's was exploring the Star Wars universe, and they did it better than any of the movies IMO. I can't agree. KOTOR diverges from Star Wars on so many points that the only thing that seems to connect them are laser swords and a few visual cues. I have to disagree on that too. In fact my main problem with the original KOTOR is how many movie/Star Wars universe plotpoints it recycles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 The point of KOTOR wasn't the story anyway, it's was exploring the Star Wars universe, and they did it better than any of the movies IMO. I can't agree. KOTOR diverges from Star Wars on so many points that the only thing that seems to connect them are laser swords and a few visual cues. Well, that and the elements shared by most fantasy/space opera. You misunderstood me. I don't give a crap about kiddie Star Wars, I liked how KOTOR implemented that universe. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 "Kotor2>Kotor NWN MoB>>>>NWN" I can play this game too. KOTOR = KOTOR2 NWN MOTB > NWN OC NWN HOTU > NWN2 OC NWN SOU > NWN2 SOZ ME2 > AP R00fles! DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Surprisingly, I agree with all of Volo's 'greater than' statements. I actually preferred HotU to MoTB, but by MoTB I was pretty burnt on D&D. What I was saying earlier is comparing an expansion to a base game is problematic. An expansion by nature is going to a be a tighter, more refined game than any OC. That doesn't mean it can't go terribly wrong. ME2 over AP was a tough one for me, but I can give ME2 a slight nod I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreasyDogMeat Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) ME2 over AP was a tough one for me, but I can give ME2 a slight nod I suppose. ME2 is a better game IMHO. More polished, epic & fun battles. AP is a better RPG IMHO. Better C&C & rule system. Now, If I were to compare AP to ME 1 AP would win in almost every regard. But they're all great so it isn't a huge victory for any of them, or any loss for the player of any of the games IMHO. Edited March 18, 2011 by GreasyDogMeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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