alanschu Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 Tactics is not related to a skill. It is still based upon level (which I think is actually unnecessary), but unless you're the type that really likes to populate your tactics tree, it shouldn't be necessary. My level 14 character had 17 tactics slots, and my level 1 character (that has 1 skill) has 5. Many of your skill points will go into skills that provide upgrades, as well as passive abilities, rather than a new usable skill that would need a tactic. My level 14 warrior has 5 activated abilities and 2 modal/sustained abilities. I have 4 passive abilities, and 3 upgrades (1 on a sustained, 2 on activated abilities). Though this is with me, who I am usually driving and haven't blinked at his tactics page (which has all of 5 things in it). Our chesty haired dwarf, Varric, is currently in my party. He is also level 14, with 17 tactics slots. My tactics setup for him uses 7 slots, with his 6 active abilities and 1 sustained. He has another sustained that I haven't allocated into tactics, with the rest of his abilities put into passive/upgrades. In my experience I haven't run into a situation where I needed more tactics slots, but at the same time I think they could have just as easily given however many you can end up with right from the start. I tend to make hybrid classes though, so for many of my AI followers I find I end up customizing the tactics list somewhat because the presets don't line up as well as I would like. I also tweak them to better take advantage of class combos.
Tale Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) That's good to hear. Especially about talents mostly being upgrades. Hope that's true for mages, I assume so. One of my problems in DAO is that I end up with way too many spells as the levels go on. Though that mainly becomes a problem around Awakening. Edited February 11, 2011 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Volourn Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 "Not to mention 4 guys grouping around an enemy and just autoattacking isn't exactly exciting gameplay." You dissing IE combat? WOW! "Ugh, this combat just looks bad. He runs around with ranged characters while the others just whack at the enemies or perform some basic AI routines. Pausing the game honestly breaks the flow of combat and the whole thing is just one big cluster****." More IE bashing? When did people here turn on the IE games? OMG tHOUGHTS... 1. I like how they are doing the tatic 'skill' since I agree with Grom on this. Stillm they should just give you 20 slots. That said, I thought people wanted DA to be like BG.. if that is the case.. you shouldn't be using the AI anyways but controlling all characters yourself. 2. Good idea to use dog that way. A dog should not be the equal to a full character. 3. Dissapointed with how armour doesn't effect stamina. Tsk, tsk. Overall, I expect DA2 to be DA2. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Tigranes Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 - Buffs fade outside of combats Bloody hell, can RPGs stop moving towards "every battle is a new world" design? This isn't just DA2 obviously, but imagine rebuffing everyone every time in the DAO Deep Roads. - How long for playthrough? Longer than ME2, shorter than DAO (about 50 hrs estimate) So, between 25 and 35 hours then. Gotcha. Tactics didn't bother me too much because I only used them in basic ways (potion if near death, switch weapons, what if surrounded, save mage, etc). Then you could let the game play itself for some filler battles, even on Nightmare, then use pause for harder battles. I assume it was a lot more infuriating if you actually wanted to fight no-pause all the time, but to me it's silly to not enjoy the tactical squad combat it gives you. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress)
Tale Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) I'm hoping "fade" just means visual effect. (walking around with the improved Arcane Armor in Awakening is obnoxious when dialogue pops up) Not that you have to rebuff. If you do have to rebuff, I hope there aren't that many buffs, because that would be obnoxious. Edited February 11, 2011 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
alanschu Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 That's good to hear. Especially about talents mostly being upgrades. Hope that's true for mages, I assume so. One of my problems in DAO is that I end up with way too many spells as the levels go on. Though that mainly becomes a problem around Awakening. One concern was definitely the sheer number of skills and talents you would get in DAO. Skill use went from Okay to blah once you exceeded your 6 quickbuttons on the console. It went from okay to mind-numbingly excruciating once you went past your skillbar on the PC. IMO anyways I'm not sure the context of the "buffs fade" message. I have sustained abilities that do not turn off. Some of them might be combat specific, but I don't know if I have seen what yet. Note I'm not a content tester, and have only been playing the game for the last couple of weeks. I don't know how all the skills work.
Tale Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) There's also the fact that I had four spells that did overly similar things. The Battlemage 2nd spell, Mass Paralysis, Mind Blast, and Blood Wound. Heck, once I got the second Battlemage spell, Miasma became unnecessary as well. Tightening that up is the thing I look forward to the most. Edited February 11, 2011 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
entrerix Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 having to constantly be recasting the buff skills would make me go toward an all archer and melee fighter crew. Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Gromnir Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 tactics as a skill were additional annoying for Gromnir BECAUSE we didn't use more than a couple o' the the tactic slots. meet a joinable npc character and half o' their total skill points is invested in combat tactics skill? #@$%. as for the gameplay hours thing... we has typical been getting more hours o' gameplay outta bio games than the announced guestimates. am wondering if any mechanic has been added to replace fatigue... is simply a cooldown period for powers? am not a fan o' additional dumbing down o' already simple rules. ... oh, and bio should make the mechanics more transparent. when Gromnir chooses to learn a fireball spell/ability in most games, we knows the damage the fireball will cause and the range the spell will have as well as the area of the effect. no mystery. choosing powers and abilities shouldn't be a mystery... shouldn't needs to trial and error every power and ability. trying to figure out the math behind the da rules were inexplicably difficult. no doubt somebody figured out the formula for rogue backstabbery, but that shouldn't have been something people had to dig 'round in the bowels o' the engine to learn. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
entrerix Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 I 100% agree with everything gromnir just said. Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Volourn Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 So, like Grom, you are only 50% right. K, then. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Wrath of Dagon Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 - Buffs fade outside of combats Bloody hell, can RPGs stop moving towards "every battle is a new world" design? This isn't just DA2 obviously, but imagine rebuffing everyone every time in the DAO Deep Roads. Buffs could be included in your tactics before, so if that's still the case, not a big deal. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
alanschu Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 Abilities state the damage and effect range as part of their descriptions in the skill tree. Note that the numbers scale with your character progression (I don't know if it's level or attributes or some combination, so that part is still somewhat nebulous), but when picking an ability or an upgrade, a list of its effects do appear.
entrerix Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 yay! already thats a pretty big step forward over DA1 imo Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Maria Caliban Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 Voice acting for FemHawke sounds a bit off. It's like a bad english accent. Like Leliana and her fake French accent? Or it could be that the ten year time span + narrative skipping means your choices have an impact on the city itself. I'd like to believe that, but it sounds too good for Bio If you side with the Templars, there will be Templars in Kirkwall. If you side with the mages, there will be a few less Templars in Kirkwall and you'll get mail from an ex-Templar about his new job in Ameranthine. CHOICE AND CONSEQUENCES BIOWARE STYLE. Tactics are back. Guess we still have to make the AI ourselves instead of, you know, the game dev handling it. Control is nice, but having us finish your game is annoying. The tactics thing was a wonderful inclusion. In fact, assuming the tactics actually work, then the game devs DID handle it. Unless you're implying that the characters should always behave in some other predefined way with no influence over how it works is somehow a positive :S I liked the tactic maker in the original DA:O. I'm glad it's returned. - Buffs fade outside of combats Bloody hell, can RPGs stop moving towards "every battle is a new world" design? This isn't just DA2 obviously, but imagine rebuffing everyone every time in the DAO Deep Roads. The visual FX fades, not the actual buff. "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
alanschu Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 Like Leliana and her fake French accent? That was always my favourite complaint from DAO
Gromnir Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) why nebulous? why should it be a mystery figuring out how much impact cunning has on rogue efficacy in combat? why is a mystery figuring out the relative impact of levels and ability scores on damage potential? Gromnir does X damage with his mighty axe o' hewing. ok, but why? this kinda thing were particular annoying for our rogue and mage builds. spellpower or magic or whatever were important to figuring out efficacy o' spells, but were there an in-game device or explanation that told us the degree magic altered the efficacy o' spells. am still not certain how cunning impacted various combat actions. why the mystery? "put points into cunning because it will make you a better rogue combatant." how? why? what were the mystery? ... the fact that a developer not even seem to know the mechanics is maybe more disconcerting. is there a rationale for the lack o' transparency? we spend points at each level, but we don't honest know the relative value o' those points. does that seem likes good game design? perhaps we is missing something, some Truth o' gameplay design that makes obfuscation desirable, but we don't get it... so please explain. HA! Good Fun! ps am not only referencing combat. is our understanding that a high enough cunning could effective replace levels of trap disarming... but am not knowing how or why or to what degree. Edited February 11, 2011 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Nepenthe Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 I'm hoping "fade" just means visual effect. (walking around with the improved Arcane Armor in Awakening is obnoxious when dialogue pops up) Not that you have to rebuff. If you do have to rebuff, I hope there aren't that many buffs, because that would be obnoxious. I think Maria already answered this, but, at least in the context it was mentioned, "fading" means that the buffs are visually not present outside of combat. Which is nice. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions
sorophx Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 dissing IE combat? WOW! yeah, right combat in DAO was nothing like in IE games. just because it wasn't D&D Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
Nepenthe Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 dissing IE combat? WOW! yeah, right combat in DAO was nothing like in IE games. just because it wasn't D&D I think you totally missed his point. Can't be sure about Vol. Still carefully optimistic about the game. A lot easier when I'm not determined to hate everything a company comes out with (though I admit I'm close to that with Bethesda... and mebbe Activision) You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions
Tale Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) So I just found out that Sebastian Vael is voiced by Alec Newman. My favorite portrayal of Paul Atreides. I guess I know who my party's Rogue will be. Edited February 11, 2011 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
entrerix Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 which makes me wonder, will we ever see another Dune game? (a good one) also: neat that the game is gold, I guess that means it's going to be released on time. Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Nepenthe Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 which makes me wonder, will we ever see another Dune game? (a good one) also: neat that the game is gold, I guess that means it's going to be released on time. Unless the "comic gets misprinted" or there's a "problem with the CE supply" like I had for ME2 and DAO. DAO was especially painful, since I was bedridden at the time and had to ask my mother to pick it up for me. Oh well, at least it felt like 20 years ago. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions
Gromnir Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 So I just found out that Sebastian Vael is voiced by Alec Newman. My favorite portrayal of Paul Atreides. I guess I know who my party's Rogue will be. am gonna man-up and admit that we actually liked the sci-fi version o' the dune saga. we stopped reading the books at the point where leto transforms via sandtrout, and the sci-fi miniseries didn't makes such nonsense more palatable. nevertheless, the sci-fi channel dune stuff offered many excellent performances from noteworthy actors... pleasantly surprised. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
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