Piracy

[greylord]

While we are at piracy... Bought Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X. 2 from Steam when it was on sale lately and installed it now for a few hours (slow download speed in the moment). Then I wondered why the game won't start... so I googled the error code and found out, that it's because you need to install the Ubisoft Launcher to make it work... and you must be online all the time... and you shall not be able to uninstall the Ubisoft Launcher ever again.

 

Result: I will never ever buy any Ubisoft games ever again. What the hell, man? But the worst - and what is making me angry - is that I haven't seen that when buying the game via Steam, else I wouldn't have bought it in the first place.

 

God, I hate this crap so much. I didn't spend many euros on it, but it's still such a waste. And there aren't even any "patches" to fix this issue.

 

 

 

So... Preventing people to pirate your games on the pc is to piss them off as much as possible? That's the only thing I see here in this case and nothing else.

Ubisoft and their "clever" DRM scehems are cancer to the game industry. Cut them out, and leave them to rot.

 

Ubisoft is surviving on it's console sales right now. PC is an afterthought, if it doesn't take much to put it on PC, they do and then just have the icing on top of the cake if anyone buys it.

 

It'll be funny if they ever do a similar DRM scheme with consoles with an always on Internet connection required...I'd laugh if they killed themselves by killing their income on the consoles as well.

 

Then again, then they'd be extinct and not doing any DRM at all.

[Walsingham]

I probably already mentione dthis, but a mate of mine met a bunch of Ubisoft guys at a training conference this year. They were _obsessed_ with piracy as if it were mice eating their money. Obsessed with clamping down on something that's bloody difficult rather than leveraging income up in other ways.

[Hassat Hunter]

Btw, PoP: Two Thrones doesn't run on Win 7 because of Securom, guess what the only known way to play it is?

 

Got the same with Beyond Good & Evil.

And of course HD was only for consoles :/

[Calax]

http://kotaku.com/5864572/the-painful-iron...sued-for-piracy

 

I think that's the trap that many people will end up falling into. being against piracy, but accidently pirating yourself

[Malcador]

Related, I found this slightly amusing for some of the items - http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/...sons_not_pirate

[aries101]

Isn't regional blocking where e.g. ps3 games has a region code on them i.e. 2 for Europe and 1 for North America? And this means that a ps3 game with a region can't be played in a ps3 player in North America...

 

Release dates are whet they are...and I do not see this as region blocking...

[greylord]

Isn't regional blocking where e.g. ps3 games has a region code on them i.e. 2 for Europe and 1 for North America? And this means that a ps3 game with a region can't be played in a ps3 player in North America...

 

Release dates are whet they are...and I do not see this as region blocking...

 

I believe they ended all PS3 region blocking on PS3s. AT least it seems that way since my PS3 (and I haven't done anything to the PS3, no jailbreaking, no nothing, completeyl legal on it) can play games from Japan, the US, and the UK (don't have games from anywhere else, just those three areas).

[Humodour]

Interestingly, both the Dutch and Japanese governments now have published studies showing piracy increases sales. I believe their studies were targeted at music piracy, but it's worth considering that the bull**** spewed from the various entertainment lobbies about how piracy is killing them might be hyperbole and myth to hide poor business fundamentals.

[greylord]

Related, I found this slightly amusing for some of the items - http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/...sons_not_pirate

 

This article reminds why all these pro anti-piracy people are idiots and are out of touch with the real effects of their products in dealing with DRM and the rest of the online mess for PC gaming.

 

Using the article statements, here's 10 reasons to avoid PC games completely from those who have anti-piracy measures....

 

1. Stability

 

DRM makes my PC cry. So many times these Protection programs actually screw with my computer. Why just the other day it suddenly slowed to a halt, I couldn't even open up browser windows. what happened. did windows have a bad update...something with Firefox not agreeing with windowns...nope...just some stupid game's DRM acting up when the game wasn't even being played...Stupid game protections.

 

Then there's going to be the fun about playing Diablo 3...internet connection has a jink...your game goes haywire...so much for that stability.

 

In fact, I'd say the pirated games probably now offer MORE stability on a PC than the stupid legal releases I buy.

 

2. Storage

 

Actually, it doesn't matter whether one pirates or not. I buy a game on a CD at the store...it still forces me to use steam to freaking DOWNLOAD the entire game onto my harddrive anyways. In fact, that seems to be how it works now...the games simply get all downloaded and THEN installed. With a pirated game I imagine I could at least burn it to DVD and then install it from there instead of having the computer download the entire thing...THEN install and try to delete the original download behind it...leaving literally gigs of stuff left over in the temp folder.

 

In fact I'd say manytimes the pirated versions will be half the size due to me not having some stupid d/l and then forced install from that install on the HD right afterwards which means I have both d/l and install on the disk at the same time.

 

3. Updates

 

Two edged sword. I like SP play. Unfortuantely sometimes the game decides it's time to update a major update which takes dozens of minutes...and there I am left simply staring into space wondering why I can't just start up the game and play instead of being forced to wait for it to update.

 

Pirated games might not have updates...but then the updates aren't automatic instead so you're never forced to do something else instead of playing the game when you wanted to. (Note: actually I believe some pirated games can do updates...but I'm not the biggest on how to pirate since thats not something I really do...but I can tell you all my griefs with the current PC system of things...and why its driven me towards playing more console games).

 

4. DRM

 

People who try to blame DRM on the pirates, claiming it wouldn't exist except for pirates, look like idiots. DRM there is more for the second hand sales than anything else, as anyone who knows anything about piracy knows that DRM doesn't really stop the pirates.

 

The only reason DRM is there is because stupid people put faith in jumping out of airplanes with umbrellas to their backs and think that will operate like a parachute.

 

DRM is the major reason I've debated about pirating things in the past...specifically so I won't have to DEAL with DRM in the first place.

 

DRM...legal players are forced to be limited by it...pirates aren't...

 

Or

 

DRM...hurting legal players everyday...#1 promoter of piracy in the world.

 

5. Viruses & Malware

 

I have to say...the pirates probably DO win that one...you probably have more of these from pirated software. Then again...nothing like having to reinstall my OS recently because Norton flagged some games' piracy protection as harmful and then the conflict froze up my computer...

 

That might not exactly be a virus...but in truth...with what happened and me losing most of my saved data and a forced reinstall of the OS...I think the virus may actually be the lesser of the two evils there...

 

6. No Tech Support

 

That's right, most games don't have tech support really. Their forums have self help...which means forum members helping forum members. I HAVE seen piracy threads. In fact one site I frequented recently that discussed Diablo 3 had a Diablo 3 pirated beta thread...and that thread had FAR more responses on how to handle tech problems and difficulties than any other tech related stuff.

 

I'd imagine if you are in with the right pirates...since they designed the cracks...they'll know far more about how to run the game and give FAR more support than more than half the games I've gotten.

 

I've even done the tech support as a member on forums and seen very little from the official people.

 

Tech support these days from computer game companies is a joke...you get more Tech support from Piracy boards then you do the official boards.

 

Actually, now that I think about it, there was one game I couldn't get running on the PC and tech support on their official forums stunk. I actually did turn to reading other forums and one of those was probably a pirate forum...ironically they were the ones that were able to know what was wrong and get the game running...so once again...

 

No tech support for us legal players...not really at least.

 

7. Legal Issues

 

You're right, you wont' get sued (hopefully) for buying a legit software. Of the ten reasons, this may be the only real reason to buy a legal copy. Then again, with some of those agreements you have to agree to to install the game I wonder if someone else actually owns my soul at this point.

 

8. Killing PC Gaming (Sorry Gordon.)

 

Yep...I think nothing has killed PC gaming as strongly or quickly as DRM. PC's have flatlined overall in PC game requirements over the past 3-4 years. If you could run most games 4 years ago...you can still run most games. It's not really all that complex tech changes these days as much as the tech problems dealing directly with DRM conflicts...and DRM in general.

 

It's not pirates that killed PC gaming, Piracy has been around since at least the 80s (afterall, remember...don't copy that floppy). Tech challenges have been around since the beginning of the PC and I'd say are probably less challenging today then they were in the 80s and DOS days.

 

The only big boss changer in the room that I can see that has occurred in the past 8 years that caused the decline in PC gaming revenues overall...would be the "Better" copy protections (like Sony's root kit?) followed by the even "Better" protections of DRM.

 

Way to go guys...killing your own base. Luckily you chased them all to consoles where you can still make a profit...though I expect that you'll kill that revenue sooner or later too.

 

9. Slows R&D Efforts

 

Really, blame that on Piracy? The only lengthing out is in dealing with how to screw your customers more by making a better DRM that they can't use so that they can't run their legal games on their computers. Get rid of DRM and that point is useless.

 

No, this is more a neutral thing...where PC games and other games have much more to look into as long as the graphics have gotten better...then again...for the most part it seems that R&D has overall stagnated over the past few years on the PC>

 

10. You

[Morgoth]

I'm neither pro-DRM, nor anti-DRM. I'm just an avid PC gamer. Look at Batman AC or Anno 2070: They all have like 2-3 layers of DRM! So what? I like the games. If you only care about the DRM and not the game, you're not a PC gamer. That's actually what is killing PC gaming.

[Volourn]

Why do people support thieves? Where are you morals? thievery is done by scumbags and piracy is theft. I don't care how much you dislike big business, DRM, or anything else. if you don't like it, don't buy it or play.

 

Playing games is not a right that you get to have to free.

 

Theives are selfsih scumbags who are pieces of crap.

[Malcador]

I'm neither pro-DRM, nor anti-DRM. I'm just an avid PC gamer. Look at Batman AC or Anno 2070: They all have like 2-3 layers of DRM! So what? I like the games. If you only care about the DRM and not the game, you're not a PC gamer. That's actually what is killing PC gaming.

 

Well for the example Oner mentioned, it's a bit of a problem.

[Orchomene]

First I just want to say I'm against pirates because it's outlawed and laws are a social agreement in a community that one has to respect if one wants that the social system works. There is no moral issue in information piracy since, contrary to what people say, it's not theft (because nothing is lost). Also, I need to add I'm against intellectual property, but it's not really the point.

 

I'm also strongly against DRM, last Ubisoft game (heroes 6) that I bought used a system in which you had to be continually connected to internet to benefit from all the elements in the game. You could play offline but would then have no weapon and lose some advantages (at least, it was not impossible to play offline).

Result : since I'm having erratic internet connexions and since when playing online, a quick disconnection/reconnection would then stop the game (without saving of course and you can't save during a battle), I had to play offline and then had to play a degraded version of the game.

Maybe hackers did circumvent the issue and played a game with a higher service, I don't know. It's not the point. The point was to say that DRM in this case just added frustration to legit customers.

 

Piracy ruins the business of only retarded publishers that did not understood how the market has evolved.

Let's give two similar examples :

- IBM (PC) against Apple (Mac)

- and more recently, Apple (iOS) against Google (Android).

In both cases, the winner has suffered from "technology piracy". Of course, it wasn't piracy since the technology wasn't protected. But the lack of protection was what determinant in the success.

It was not their protection policy that saved Apple, it was just brilliant marketing after very painful years of seeing the ship sink.

It's pretty simple : if X people buy your product and 10*X people pirate it, then your market impact is of 11*X people touched by your product. You then gain an impact being 11 times more important than if nobody uses it.

This impact is technological (as in creating a standard) for hard/os products. You then are the one which is a technological reference and attracts attention on other service you can offer (see IBM).

The impact is cultural for entertainment product : you may create a new trend, some neologism that directly refers to you (like 'diablo clones') This cultural impact is essential for developers/designers/companies for their following titles : people will follow what will comes next (so less marketing needed), people may become more indulgent on smalll issues (better reviews) and so on.

 

Now about sales. There is no legitimate issue to consider that if a product is not pirated, then pirated version would become sold versions. It's just not realistic. It's of course the case when there is overpiracy (whatever the reason for it). In the middle term, it may become the inverse, even maybe in short term, because of the advertisement effect (even if a friend of mine got an illegal copy of a game I would never have thought to be enjoying, if he recommends it to me, I would buy it, thus the pirated copy helped to sell a copy).

 

I think the business world of entertainment has not yet finished to learn from successes like Google and Facebook. It's just the beginning. They need to quickly adapt and History showed sufficiently that people that fight against normal (as in 'in the norm') evolution of a market disappear.

 

All in all, in the end, I never pirate a game because I know that the developer companies need to sell games to survive (I'm also a developer after all, even if it's not in entertainment business). But I'm also hoping they quickly find an alternative to their business policy. Otherwise, they will suffer in a not so far future.

[Gorth]

I think the business world of entertainment has not yet finished to learn from successes like Google and Facebook. It's just the beginning. They need to quickly adapt and History showed sufficiently that people that fight against normal (as in 'in the norm') evolution of a market disappear.

Which is why the entertainment industry of the future is going to be MMO's for computers and Reality Show X, the movie for watching on streaming TV when the cinema is dead. The only way you can find investors for a project is if the product can be reasonably expected to sells. If you can't protect your investment, you go out of business, simple as that. For me it's not a big loss, I haven't seen a movie in the cinema for 6 years (nothing released that interested me) and my gaming is very limited, since my taste belongs to a dying breed, but there is a not insignificant group of people who seems addicted to entertainment and can't get enough of it. They are also busy shooting themselves in their collective feet, complaining about the lack of quality releases no less (probably some kind of irony in there) )

[Gorgon]

People still want to see movies in a theater, it's just that prices at the cinema have skyrocketed the last few years. They really are shooting themselves in the foot by pushing all of their overhead from expensive 3d hardware onto an ever smaller consumer base. It's going to be available to home viewers soon enough anyway. They will need to cut prices drastically soon or go out of business.

[Volourn]

"Now about sales. There is no legitimate issue to consider that if a product is not pirated, then pirated version would become sold versions. It's just not realistic. It's of course the case when there is overpiracy (whatever the reason for it). In the middle term, it may become the inverse, even maybe in short term, because of the advertisement effect (even if a friend of mine got an illegal copy of a game I would never have thought to be enjoying, if he recommends it to me, I would buy it, thus the pirated copy helped to sell a copy)."

 

This is a weakd efense of piracy IE theft. If your 'friend' shares with you a pirated game and you like it... why wouldn't someone just pirate a copy for themselves? hence no sale. The logic reeks of desperation in order to somehow make piracy 'okay'. Theft is noty okay. Hence piracy is not okay.

 

And, it has niothing to do with 'against the law'. It' is simply immoral to steal something that is not yours. Period.

[Mamoulian War]

This is a weakd efense of piracy IE theft. If your 'friend' shares with you a pirated game and you like it... why wouldn't someone just pirate a copy for themselves? hence no sale. The logic reeks of desperation in order to somehow make piracy 'okay'. Theft is noty okay. Hence piracy is not okay.

 

I have purchased 20+ games, which were recommended to by my friends with much lower income, who pirated the games and loved them...

 

Piracy = advertisement for people who care...

 

You are as much away from reality as some publishers...

[Mamoulian War]

http://kotaku.com/5864572/the-painful-iron...sued-for-piracy

 

I think that's the trap that many people will end up falling into. being against piracy, but accidently pirating yourself

 

Two new updates on the case, from webpage, that I will not link here... If you care, you will find it

 

Update: Pownews

[Malcador]

Piracy = advertisement for people who care...

 

Hah, I'll have to remember that. And hey they do tell you to buy the game if you like it . Doesn't really matter how a person got the game when it comes to their impressions - although I've been told that feedback from a pirated player is meaningless somehow.

[Volourn]

"I have purchased 20+ games, which were recommended to by my friends with much lower income, who pirated the games and loved them..."

 

For some reason, I doubt you are the normal and your personal anecdote is useless. I can use useless anecdotes of the opposite.

 

Fact is, no matter how you slice it, theft is theft. And, when you pirate youa re a theif and therefore you are a scumbag.

[greylord]

Why do people support thieves? Where are you morals? thievery is done by scumbags and piracy is theft. I don't care how much you dislike big business, DRM, or anything else. if you don't like it, don't buy it or play.

 

Playing games is not a right that you get to have to free.

 

Theives are selfsih scumbags who are pieces of crap.

 

 

When you originally stated your "pirates are theives and scumbags" it seemed to be in response to my writing how Producers are killing the Industry via 10 reasons....and NOT the pirates. That implied that I, (who haven't pirated games but only bought legit versions and have been impacted NOT by pirates, but by stupid producers...and actually been driven away a LOT by their stupid DRM schemes to play on consoles [once again with legit games...I'm not one that wants to screw my console by doing stupid things to it]) was not only a pirate, but also a scumbag.

 

Since I haven't pirated (and from what I hear probably am one of the few that haven't gotten games via internet as such), I'd take such implications almost as a direct insult.

 

Furthermore, after those who complain about how the producers are promoting piracy by hurting their legit customers, you seem to repeat this mantra...as if legit customers complaining is the problem.

 

AKA...on this topic you seem to be trying to put down the legit buyers but ignore the true piracy promoters. As someone said, perhaps your just as clueless as those who are making it a pain to play PC games?

 

Though to tell the truth I hold those who make stupid protection schemes like always online to play an SP game just as evil and destructive to the PC industry as any pirate...perhaps MORESO...as I haven't really been affected by pirates as far as I can tell...but have PERSONALLY been affected by stupid Game protection schemes as a legit buyer.

Edited December 4, 2011 by greylord

[Nepenthe]

For the record, I stopped reading at the "piracy is not morally wrong" point.

[Volourn]

"AKA...on this topic you seem to be trying to put down the legit buyers but ignore the true piracy promoters."

 

L0L Why would I be bashing legit purchasers when I state pirates are scumbag thieves? That doesn't compute. Legit buyers, by defintion, aren't pirates.

 

 

"Though to tell the truth I hold those who make stupid protection schemes like always online to play an SP game just as evil and destructive to the PC industry as any pirate...perhaps MORESO...as I haven't really been affected by pirates as far as I can tell...but have PERSONALLY been affected by stupid Game protection schemes as a legit buyer"

 

Actually, you have been affected by piracy. DRM and other protection stuff is a direct result of piracy. Just like heavy intrustion and other garbage at airports are a direct result of scumbag terrorists. now, pirate thieves are not as horrible as terrorists but they are scumbags nontheless and they are the reason why legit customers ahve tod eal with the 'horrors' of DRM and other stupid game protection schemes.

 

So, yeah, you very much have been affected negatively by sucmbag pirates. Capiche?

 

 

Also, piracy like theft in stores, increases costs of games as companies try to negate their costs of combating them hence, once again, piracy does effect you.

 

L0L 'Nerver been affected by piraqte thief scumbags'. LMAO

Edited December 4, 2011 by Volourn

[Gorth]

Though to tell the truth I hold those who make stupid protection schemes like always online to play an SP game just as evil and destructive to the PC industry as any pirate...perhaps MORESO...as I haven't really been affected by pirates as far as I can tell...but have PERSONALLY been affected by stupid Game protection schemes as a legit buyer.

To put it in less words than Volourn, you have been affected by pirates whether you realise it or not. DRM is a response to both piracy and the attitude of those that feel that only other people should pay for stuff. Complaining about DRM and not the pirates is shooting the messenger. The airport security measures are an apt comparison. You get x-rayed through your underwear and bodily searched even if you are innocent, because some people don't "play by the rules" to get what they want.

[Hurlshort]

DRM schemes may suck, but I understand businesses wanting to protect their investments. Pirates have no justification for what they are doing. It is completely wrong and morally repugnant.