FO: NV (General Discussion)

[TheHarlequin]

Mojave BoS didn't seem like they were interested in conquest.

 

So they just stay holed up in the bunker even if I over threw the old leader? Does not seem like them but perhaps they feel isolated and cut off.

 

Speaking of.. when I put the more open minded guy in charge he told me he would resume patrols and id see them. Yet I saw nada in the wastes for the rest of the game. Was it a bug or he didn't mean I would literally see them in game?

Edited November 26, 2010 by TheHarlequin

[Cantousent]

I thought the BoS segment was irritating in how it resolved also. I won't go into spoilers, but I thought that any avenue I took didn't matter because the entire membership was hell bent on dwindling into nothing, and I tried a whole slew of methods on it. In my current run, I'll do something a little different, but I still don't see what good it will do. Otherwise, it was an interesting faction, but certainly the BoS is more of a bit player in this game than any other Fallout I've seen thus far.

[Cantousent]

...And I felt so strongly about it, I apparently had to say it twice.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Cantousent

[HoonDing]

I also didn't have a slide for the BoS in the end.

 

Strangely enough, though, I did receive a slide for a group called "the Misfits" that I had never even encountered or heard of.

[Cantousent]

I ran into some people in Primm who acted like they were going to take over the place. I passed a speech check and they left and I got a slide for someone called the misfits. I think they must be the same folks.

[Humanoid]

Strangely enough, though, I did receive a slide for a group called "the Misfits" that I had never even encountered or heard of.

 

 

The incompetent NCR soldiers at Camp Golf I think

 

[Cantousent]

I don't think so, Humanoid. I got two very distinctive endings for both groups in one of my runs. I never figured out who the misfits were for sure, but the other folks had a happy ending. Well... both groups had a more or less happy ending, but they were different.

 

EDIT: I went to the saved game and watched the ending again. Humanoid is right. There was only one ending with the misfits and now I don't know what other group I was thinking.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Cantousent

[LadyCrimson]

No, Humanoid's right. They're even a part of the radio news if you do their related quest.

[Cantousent]

Yeah, I saw that. I did go into Primm or somewhere in one game and found a group of people who were going to take over. Deserters or something. ...And it was waaaaay after I'd already resolved Primm's law problem. So basically I'm just very confused right now.

[LadyCrimson]

I encountered that group once too. I think they're just a scripted "surprise" event for curious players who go back, nothing important.

[Slowtrain]

One thing I would consider changing is the reliance on Int to determine the amount of skill points you get per level. It makes it so you HAVE to have intelligence to not gimp yourself out of the game. The difference between 10 and 17 skillpoints per level for 30 levels is too huge.

 

Also, it somewhat annoys me that it implies intelligence equals having skills. You can be a great boxer, sharpshooter, martial artist, hockey player, ballerina, carpenter, deep sea diver, whatever, without being able to tie your own shoe laces. The only thing intelligence gives you is an advantage in the purely academic skills.

 

I'm on my third (or fourth? I forget) replay of Fallout: New Vegas, and that game is made so I always end up creating the same character no matter what I do. The only thing I've been able to change is my main weapon choice, and even then it's pretty pointless (guns work regardless). I've tried going with a strong but dumb character, only to end up having to use perks to increase Int so I could get more skill points (which are vital for EVERY character build). I've tried going for smart and weak, high agility, low agility, etc. I always end up with basically the same build anyway. Always science, speech, repair and picklock. I don't even remember the other skills since they are basically worthless.

 

My latest build was supposed to be an unarmed dumb, strong fighter who was a master of survival. I pumped up my unarmed to 90 and my survival skill to 70 before I gave up and spent the rest on speech, science and repair (I only have 12 lockpick and have missed 50% of the game because of it). Without repair your items last one battle. Without speech, science and lockpick you miss out on 95% of the game. Without Int, you will have no skills at all.

 

I do like the idea of combining unarmed and melee. I've played both builds and they're so incredibly similar to each other, I have no clue why Obsidian decided to split them.

 

 

I c/p'ed this from the mod thread so as not to derail that thread.

 

I find this post interesting because it seems to indicate that sp's are much more valuable in NV than in FO3? Maybe it's just mkreku's play style?

 

I'm curious because I always played a 4 int char in FO3 and never took skill point ennhancing perks and my characters always felt grotesly overpowered by level 12-15 regardless. I was going to do this in NV as well, but if sp's are more valuable there, I might take a different approach.

 

How do people feel about the availability of sp's in NV? DO you need a high int?

[Tale]

I don't think you need a high int. Beyond a certain point its redundant. There's basically only two explosive checks you need the entire game. And most things that need lockpicking can be done instead by science or exploration. The game's pretty good about having various ways to overcome things. So long as you have one combat skill and lockpicking OR science, you can do most things. Toss in speech and you can get all companions too. Three skills. 10/11 skill points per level is enough to max those out easily, that's not even taking educated.

[HoonDing]

My 2 INT character had 11 skill points each level-up (4 less than my current 6 INT with Educated) and maxed out her tagged skills by the end of the game. But still she was able to get repair/medicine/lockpick/science over 50.

 

No lockpick mostly means missing out on some stimpaks, ammo and bottle caps. Plus a few unique weapons. No science means not having to bother with the hacking minigame, which is heaven.

 

Medicine would be completely useless if some quests didn't use skill checks for it. Stimpaks are made redundant by Sunset sarsaparilla & food. Repair is even more useless in my experience, but for users of energy weapons with overcharge ammo it may be a different story.

Edited November 26, 2010 by virumor

[Pop]

And most things that need lockpicking can be done instead by science or exploration.

This is not the case, at least, not to the extent seen in F3. The vast majority of locked doors do not have computer terminals that will unlock them (they may have keys, though). It was somewhat disconcerting after F3 that NV had several quests that required a certain skill to complete. Comprehension helps in those cases.

 

No science means not having to bother with the hacking minigame, which is heaven.

Ha! What game are you people actually playing?

Edited November 26, 2010 by Pop

[Cantousent]

I disagree with mkreku completely. Tale has it right in that there are so many ways to overcome obstacles that having relatively lower skills in science, repair etc isn't necessary for anything other than extra loot.

 

mkreku is right that having a high intelligence doesn't make you a better boxer, but, as virumor says, you don't need a high intelligence to be a master pugilist in the game either.

 

I disagree with virumor in that repair has a lot of utility in the game. The thing is, as an adventuring tool, repair is somewhat limited. For dialogue and special checks, it can come in handy.

 

EDIT: As for the assertion that the player needs to have certain skills to finish certain quests, that's not really true for most of the quests anyhow. If your medical knowledge sucks, you can still gather the medical tools to complete the quest. If your repair sucks, you can usually find the parts to fix the machine. The player doesn't miss out on all that much content and can do all of the crit path content. We want decisions to have meaning, but we assume we should be able to pick every lock and hack every terminal? Choice and consequence starts with the decisions you make when you build your character.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Cantousent

[Tale]

And most things that need lockpicking can be done instead by science or exploration.

This is not the case, at least, not to the extent seen in F3. The vast majority of locked doors do not have computer terminals that will unlock them (they may have keys, though). It was somewhat disconcerting after F3 that NV had several quests that required a certain skill to complete. Comprehension helps in those cases.

The vast majority of doors do not have terminals, yes. But they do have keys, ways around, or terminals. Which was my point. Science or exploration. Examples such as the hotel in Primm. There's a back way to the deputy. Door is locked. But there's a terminal that opens another locked door that leads to the key to that door. Or the unique plasma rifle. Which has a key, lock, and terminal, all for the same door.

 

But there are no quests that I've ever seen that required a certain skill. Maybe a certain skill to complete a particular way (such as the powder ganger vault).

 

Edit: Well, there's the two companion quests that require speech. But I also mentioned that. Though one of those can be done with Barter.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Tale

[LadyCrimson]

I love repair in general and the jury rigging perk specifically. I haven't spent a dime on weapon/armor repairs in the game and I like it that way. But I also agree that you don't need high INT to beat the game/feel skilled enough. The game is designed fairly well where there's usually some other option even if you don't mean the skill check. Not always, but a lot of the time. Like, most of the medicine checks I've encountered also have parts ways to handle it. Only one or two I encountered actually required the check itself.

 

Unrelated side note: I discovered companions love buffout. They'll use it with far more regularity than stimpacks when they start to take actual dmg/face strong enemies and the extra HP's saved Arcade's butt a couple times. So I'm wandering around with a couple drug addicts...hehe

Edited November 26, 2010 by LadyCrimson

[cronicler]

I would suggest a balanced build (7 int, 6str, 6end, 6luck small frame and/or 4 eyes).

The only truly critical skills in the game are your combat skill, speech and stealth (if you use it)

For quests you need about 50 barter, explosives, lockpick, repair and science.

 

A combat distribution (5,2,1,1..) will get your combat skill to 80 around level 10, (you shouldn't spend points on your skills past 84 as you will find 4 books for each of them). After that, just use a balanced distribution to pump your secondary skills.

 

I know most people will call me munchkin but you don't actually need more than 1 combat skill. Just choose 1 and stick with it.

(*I can give you a couple true munchkin recipes if you are intrested)

[Pop]

The Rad Suit quest started in Camp Searchlight requires an attainable lockpick score of 50, and even with a character with a 30 lockpick skill and comprehension my first character still couldn't complete the quest, as Locksmith's Reader wouldn't spawn in any of the merchant's inventories.

 

As far as the Powder Ganger Vault goes, you do indeed need an attainable science of 40 and explosives of 60. When I agreed to that dude's questline, without knowledge of what it would require, the alternate questgiver apparently disappeared from the Vault, effectively locking that quest until I had the requisite skill. That may be a bug but it always seemed like there were in fact two quests there.

 

Nevertheless, I would contend that "hard high road / easy low road" isn't the most robust manifestation of C&C you can implement.

[Starwars]

I love the increased skill usage in the game but I really didn't like the inclusion of the skill magazines, thought it became way too easy to cheese parts of the game. I mean, a 20+ boost (if you have the right perk, and considering how powerful it is... yeah) is just... a lot really.

I think the skill-point economy is quite good in NV though, and the mags would be my biggest complaint about it. Maybe if Comprehension didn't give the extra 10 points...

[Cantousent]

Nevertheless, I would contend that "hard high road / easy low road" isn't the most robust manifestation of C&C you can implement.

I get this.

 

...But some builds are better than other builds in every game. You can do whatever you need to do in order to complete the vast majority of quests no matter how you decide to build your character. What you can do is make it easier or harder based on character build. I maintain that the idiot pugilist can finish the game. The one thing with which I agree most is that guns are so powerful that they're almost broken. Ammunition is abundant. there is a huge variety of guns available for use or repair throughout the game. Weapon mods are at hand very cheaply for just about every model I've seen, even the varmint rifle. Hell, I've seen a couple mods for the varmint rifle.

 

Additionally, I think the complaint should be that my high skill character with everything geared for skill points, from 10 ranks of stat bumps to an extra tag skill, is so deadly that I don't miss the other combat perks at all. I think the idiot pugilist should be so devastating in combat that my highly educated and erudite character would pale in comparison during battle. In effect, I suppose that the idiot pugilist might be better in combat, but my skill point character kills stuff so fast I don't see the upside of taking the extra combat perks.

[Tigranes]

I just used the Euclid C-Finder for the first time, on the NCR group at Freeside (

King Quest

). Oooh, that was nice.

 

And yeah, I don't think the FO SPECIAL mechanic was terribly well designed in the first place, at least in conjunction with the kind of use the skills get in the game - it's fun and it does the job but it was never that balance.d

[Tale]

As far as the Powder Ganger Vault goes, you do indeed need an attainable science of 40 and explosives of 60. When I agreed to that dude's questline, without knowledge of what it would require, the alternate questgiver apparently disappeared from the Vault, effectively locking that quest until I had the requisite skill. That may be a bug but it always seemed like there were in fact two quests there.

It's one quest. There's actually 3 ways to resolve it, though one counts as failure, but provides plenty of XP and a happy ending slide.

 

Nevertheless, I would contend that "hard high road / easy low road" isn't the most robust manifestation of C&C you can implement.

And I'd contend that people throw around C&C too much. The high hard road / easy low road is a bloody stable of the genre when it comes to actually making skills worthwhile. It's the only way to make skills valuable when everything else can be solved by shooting. Making all skills equivalent in each instance doesn't strike me as desirable.

 

And is a drastic improvement over Fallout 3, where the solution was always shooting.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Tale

[HoonDing]

And is a drastic improvement over Fallout 3, where the solution was always shooting.

Quite a few FO3 sidequests had non-violent solutions, actually.

 

IIRC only Reilly's Rangers and the Fire Ant quest was non-stop combat.

Edited November 26, 2010 by virumor

[Tale]

Generally, the non-violent solutions were "try to sneak past it down corridors filled with them." Even the android one had you visit a Mirelurk nest. It did real well until that point.

 

I think Raven Rock was probably the best one, though, you could sneak under them.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Tale