ur doin it rong

[Achilles]

My first three playthroughs were stealth (Field Agent/Spy, Recruit/Spy, and Veteran/Spy) respectively.

 

For my forth time through, I decided that I wanted to change it up a little and go the Tech Specialist/Engineer route.

 

I don't know whether it's a function of having conditioned myself to play a certain way via the first few games or what, but I'm having a heck of time figuring out exactly what the benefits to this build are supposed to be.

 

Gadgets have a very limited inventory (up to 6 with perks, or 3 in some cases) and are expensive to upgrade (~$35k each to get to tier 3 and even then about $250 each to replace). They work great as traps, but my success rate with them as thrown objects just sucks. I can't tell you how many times I've tried throwing an incendiary bomb at someone while they stood there shooting me only to find that it went 3 feet behind them, so I get dead while throwing my money away (never mind that it seems that Mike can't really throw gadgets behind cover). Even non-lethal gadgets (such as shock traps) tend to alert everyone in the area, forcing me to resort to my shotgun.

 

So...am I doing it wrong? I've sunk points into stealth so that I sneak up and set traps, but since cover is blown the moment one of them is triggered, what's the point?

[Oner]

Shotgun should be your primary weapon and gadgets the secondary. Critical hit, Stomp, repeat.

I'm using a tech/engineer in my current playthrough too, and had 0 problems. Just don't bother keeping people alive.

[Fallen Ghost]

Generally speaking trying to specialize in anything that eats money is bad because the game gives you so little of it you barely have enough to buy intel and may buy some toilet paper for the bathroom if you're lucky. On top of that the game likes to punish anyone not stealth oriented as you'll miss on a vast collection of stealth perks that give good benefits therefore you cripple yourself.

 

The way I see it is I don't like being some kind of super spy in the leagues of Bond and Bourne but have to pickpocket corpses so that I don't run out of ammo or something so I go ahead and give Mike access to the secret funds of Alpha Protocol nobody knows about.....you know...the money they buy all the TVs and computers with so that each safehouse has about a billion of them....just in case a few million computers or TVs happen to break on the same day or something. Then I also get Mike some special training sessions so that he can actually behave like a half competent spy instead of getting pawned every time he's dragged kicking and screaming out of the shadows and actually has to fight instead of say....stab someone in the neck from behind. Like yahtzee said the game is all too happy to let you put all your points in learning to waltz only to leave you stuck in a unavoidable free dancing competition. Besides Alpha Protocol's secret funds aren't used by anyone since nobody knows about them so I say go ahead and use them to empty out the black market stores and outfit Mike like the super spy he's supposed to be as well as giving him some lessons in not being pitiful in all but 2 skills.

Edited June 17, 2010 by Fallen Ghost

[Achilles]

This seems to be the exact rut I've fallen into (also, booby trap door to kill bad guy #1, kick door in on bad guy #2 to knock him down, stomp, repeat).

 

Which is fine I suppose. I guess I'm just seeing how this is terribly different than, say, going the aggressive/jack bauer route. I guess I was expecting some experience that would showcase the advantages of the class. I got that in spades playing stealth so I think that level of expectation carried over.

 

If my expectations are too high, so be it. Just thought I would check to make sure that I'm not missing something.

 

@Fallen: I'm assuming this is a reference to cheat codes or something? I'm not worried about how I'm going to manage my money. I'm worried that there's some trick to playing this class that I'm missing. Thanks though.

 

P.S. playing the xbox 360 version, so I don't have access to cheat codes.

Edited June 17, 2010 by Achilles

[Starwars]

Also, for the gadgets, the upgrades are well worth it. There's really no need to really upgrade them all though, just focus on the ones that you feel are particularly useful or specific to your playstyle.

 

And keep in mind also that you can load up the same type of gadget on multiple slots of your armor (which should be the ones with maximal gadget slots of course).

 

Getting used to throwing stuff is hard, definitely. But again, upgrading the grenades, using Overclock and stuff like that can really make the effects more devastating.

 

I'd say that from the 3 main classes, Tech Specialist is probably the one that I felt was the least effective and was the hardest to play. But I really enjoyed doing it, I found it extremely fun to play around with the gadgets. Since I was playing a good character, I thought it was a lot of fun to make use of the flashbangs (extremely effective when upgraded), shock traps and stuff like that when I didn't want to kill people.

[Achilles]

Also, for the gadgets, the upgrades are well worth it. There's really no need to really upgrade them all though, just focus on the ones that you feel are particularly useful or specific to your playstyle.

 

And keep in mind also that you can load up the same type of gadget on multiple slots of your armor (which should be the ones with maximal gadget slots of course).

 

Getting used to throwing stuff is hard, definitely. But again, upgrading the grenades, using Overclock and stuff like that can really make the effects more devastating.

I haven't monkeyed around too much with Overclock. Maybe that's part of my problem.

 

I'd say that from the 3 main classes, Tech Specialist is probably the one that I felt was the least effective and was the hardest to play. But I really enjoyed doing it, I found it extremely fun to play around with the gadgets. Since I was playing a good character, I thought it was a lot of fun to make use of the flashbangs (extremely effective when upgraded), shock traps and stuff like that when I didn't want to kill people.

I generally try to avoid trouble too. The problem with flashbangs is that I follow that up with take downs and since my stealth plays relied on take downs and the occasional non-lethal gadget, I'm right back in that place where I feel like I'm not playing the class correctly. Unless of course the correct way to play the class is "just like stealth but you have to suck at it this time".

[Tigranes]

Actually, I've gone through entire missions where I killed and dealt with 90% of the enemies with gadgets, they are great fun and very useful.

 

1) You need to observe and wait just as much as a stealth character. Wait until 2, or even 3, enemies are clumped together, line up your grenade trajectory just right, and then lob - use Overclock if available. Instant multi-kill.

2) If you use a stealth takedown to kill the first man, often, other enemies will go 'yellow' and come to the scene of the crime. If you time it right, you can use that first man as a bait and then get 'em all.

3) Incendiary grenades have a very large area of effect and sometimes they take a few seconds to come into effect - even when you can't see the fire graphics (a bug?). Especially with overclock and/or upgrades they can very easily take out multiple enemies.

4) Remote mines are not as useful, but they're the most fun I've had with anything in Alpha Protocol. they are hilarious. Tricks include:

(a) When you hear an enemy coming towards you from the other side of a door, quickly set a remote mine on the door and then back away. When they open the door, hit the remote - and bam, they're dead.

(b) Wait and see their patrol routes; when they're on the other side, mine their patrol route, then bam.

© Hell, you can even throw them then detonate them.

5) Explodable trucks. Use them. Combined with any gadget they make big big explosions.

 

Places where you can use gadgets to great effect include, just off the top of my head:

-> Saudi Arabia, Jizan Weapons: When you first approach the open area, before you go down all the stairs, you can lob a grenade to the wooden tower where a guy is manning a turret. If you wait another guy will come near - you can get two of them instantly, and then distract the other remaining ones. Oh, you can try my remote mine trick with the door when you are entering that room behind the satellite dish: mine the door, open it, and stepping backwards, hit the remote. :D Also, after you open the big door leading underground, you can take the zip-line down to knock an enemy out, then immediately, lob a grenade to a nearby truck to get the other 2 enemies - often before they've noticed you properly.

-> Saudi Arabia, Nasri: In the room with the big tank and lots of weapons (and the missile you can fire at the palace), you can often use grenades to great effect if you have Awareness, because there are so many obstacles and the enemy can't see you easily. Often they'll stumble around trying to find you and put themselves in harm's way.

-> Moscow, Lazo's Yacht: Obvious one is two guys near the first floor arcade machines, close together. Then, after you take out Lazo, there will be a lot of enemies coming down to your location - a well aimed overclocked incendiary grenade can take out up to 5(!) enemies at once - just be careful not to get the scantily clad woman. Remote mines placed beforehand can also be useful.

 

There are a lot of other places. I find that a gadgets-man is not so much about getting by undetected, but choosing your own ground and own timing for the fight - laying traps and laying your plans and then cackling maniacally while people are set on fire.

[Hassat Hunter]

you'll miss on a vast collection of stealth perks that give good benefits therefore you cripple yourself.

Gadgets and combat got plenty of perks too.

 

Of course I never gotten the gadgets (aside from first aid, since it counts the fixed healing points too) perks since I rarily use them, but still...

[Tigranes]

Generally, I find that most people that complain about Mike being 'too weak' or skills being 'too useless' actually tried it a little bit, didn't really understand how to use those particular skills properly, and then instead of giving it a fair go for a while and learning how to play in a different way gave up and just decided to not play / go back to old way / cheat / etc. Good to see OP is giving it a fair go - the game isn't impossible for *any* character by any stretch of imagination if you use what you have right.

[Fallen Ghost]

Generally, I find that most people that complain about Mike being 'too weak' or skills being 'too useless' actually tried it a little bit, didn't really understand how to use those particular skills properly, and then instead of giving it a fair go for a while and learning how to play in a different way gave up and just decided to not play / go back to old way / cheat / etc. Good to see OP is giving it a fair go - the game isn't impossible for *any* character by any stretch of imagination if you use what you have right.

I find it very amusing that the program has nearly infinite funds literally thrown away on unnecessary amounts of TVs and computers in safehouses that just about nobody knows about....that means there is no money trail leading to them either so the program MUST have enormous amounts of funds they aren't held accountable for yet Mike can't buy a half decent pistol if he wants intel? And must lower himself to pickpocketing dead bodies? Seriously? On top of that he's a superspy that either knows a little bit of everything or really good at 2 or 3 skills and utterly incompetent at everything else. Generally speaking most people will focus on 2 or 3 skills and ignore everything else then the game for all its insane focus on stealth....since even engineers MUST remain undetected long enough to for a plan or lay traps or what not....makes damn sure to force you into big fights nearly every single mission....there are what....4 missions in the game that you can complete undetected alltogether where the game doesn't force you into some trouble or another and then in the mission where you have to stop Surkov from escaping you literally don't want to avoid the final fight with Championchick and the guards because if you do you miss out on a few pieces of intel. Not to mention that Stealth has a lot more perks that are far more useful....and a lot cheaper since they don't require money you don't have.....as an engineer 75% of available perks involve carry 1 more of x gadget for using x gadget x amount of times.....just to carry one more EMP you need to successfully use 25 of them.....that costs nearly 25k....for ONE perk.

 

Now is it impossible to play another way? NO but it IS way beyond reasonable where you have to deal with all the poor and unbalanced parts of the game where you might as well be better off chewing on razor blades. The same thing I pointed out before....you can go 80+% of the game not needing a certain skill and then you are stuck in an area because you can't advance the game without that skill.....all of a sudden having to hack 12 nodes in 20 seconds.....less than 2 seconds per node and they are all far more tangled than the 4 to 6 nodes and your EMPs are useless because you have no points in Sabotage and the tutorial allowed you to use an EMP without EVER telling you that you need sabotage in order to ever use them again. I will HAVE to see a youtube video of YOU bypassing a 12 node circuit in UNDER 20 seconds with 0 points in sabotage before I will believe you. Looking for unfamiliar patterns takes time and mistakes cost more time.....less than 2 seconds per node where no other bypass critical to mission advancement ever had more than 6. THAT is a rather big flaw that can leave you completely stuck more than half way through the game unless you happen to have unused advancement points laying around which doesn't happen very often. That is just ONE example....there are plenty others. All on top of the things that plainly do not make sense.

[Achilles]

Not to mention that Stealth has a lot more perks that are far more useful....and a lot cheaper since they don't require money you don't have.....as an engineer 75% of available perks involve carry 1 more of x gadget for using x gadget x amount of times.....just to carry one more EMP you need to successfully use 25 of them.....that costs nearly 25k....for ONE perk.

I was right on the precipice of agreeing with you until a little voice reminded me that the perks are little rewards you get for playing the way that you want, not a meta-game unto themselves. I wholeheartedly agree that dropping $6,250 on grenades (or $25k on EMPs) just so that you can carry 6 instead of 5 (3 instead of 2) is a little ridiculous, except that the point of the game is not to collect as many perks as possible.

 

As someone with perfectionist tendencies, I know how difficult it is not to get sucked in by the temptation to meta-game, but resist we must

 

As for the class, after reading Tigranes' posts, I'm convinced I'm doing it wrong. I'll finish this build out in the hopes that I'll get it at some point, but the reality is I think I just prefer playing as Jason Bourne.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Achilles

[Thorton_AP]

I ran around as an engineer (was a recruit to start) and had fun shooting people in the face with the shotgun. I'm on the PC on normal difficulty, but I didn't really find it that hard.

 

I took some pistol skill to get the cover shooting as well, for more stealthy takedowns.

 

 

I think Fallen Ghost is exaggerating personally. Also, while I can agree that the game should have told you about sabotage level 1, I also think that people should actually take the time to read the skills. But hey, I'm weird like that.

[Thorton_AP]

Surkov from escaping you literally don't want to avoid the final fight with Championchick and the guards because if you do you miss out on a few pieces of intel

 

LOL muffin.

 

I did it my first playthrough, and when I came back the second time I thought "awesome" because I had to fight Championchik that time.

[Tigranes]

I won't address every single one of your points, but the core of it comes down to this - all your complaints come from the fact that you think the game is too hard and unbalanced. All your arguments boil down to that. Why is it so hard to sneak? Why are minigames so hard? Why are bosses so hard? Why do I have to chew on razor blades? Well, let's see:

 

-> "12 nodes alarm minigames are impossible": I do these most of the time. They're not hard, because the shape of the mazes are picked from a few handful of pre-set ones. i.e. the wire mazes aren't random. So after a while it's pretty easy to hit one node every second or so. Is it hard? Yes. Is there a significant chance of failure? Yes. Is it impossible? No. If you're not good at this particular minigame, that's fine - I'm useless at shooting, for instance, and sometimes die to a single Taipei policeman. Get yourself an EMP or sabotage.

 

-> "Stealthing missions are impossible": Um... are you suggesting that for a game to be 'balanced' for stealth players, you should be able to stealth past anything and everything? Seriously? Stealth is incredibly overpowered at the moment, thanks to Shadow Operative. The point of stealth is to let you tackle challenges on your own terms or bypass some of them, not a magic token that lets you feel like some invisible badass.

 

The fact is, this game is not a hard game, or an unbalanced game. No matter what build you make, if you make full use of the gadgets, skills, guns, environments, etc available to you, there are very few areas where you get stuck and come up against overwhelming odds. Example is Brayko - he appears freaking impossibly hard, but once you work out how to get to him (and there are ways to get to him for just about every build), he becomes almost deflatingly simple to defeat.

 

There are areas where the game could do better, but your rant just comes from the fact that you're not taking advantage of all the tools you have. The game is telling you "here are all these things you can use to win", and you're saying "No I wanna win this way and I wanna get my perks and I wanna be a badass"...

[Thorton_AP]

I even got good at the 5 letter super fast hacks.

 

Though I have noticed that this seem to be performance based. When i fraps a lockpicking minigame (to show I don't have to pick up my mouse), I did notice that I had to move my mouse a lot more.

 

That's an oops for sure.

[Fallen Ghost]

I ran around as an engineer (was a recruit to start) and had fun shooting people in the face with the shotgun. I'm on the PC on normal difficulty, but I didn't really find it that hard.

 

I took some pistol skill to get the cover shooting as well, for more stealthy takedowns.

 

 

I think Fallen Ghost is exaggerating personally. Also, while I can agree that the game should have told you about sabotage level 1, I also think that people should actually take the time to read the skills. But hey, I'm weird like that.

 

I have played through the game 10 times and I have tried using nearly every skill available and seen most of the endings and variations in the story and gameplay....the stuck without being able to use EMPs happened on my first playthrough and was extremely lucky to have exactly 3 unspent AP points to be able to advance the game. The money are way too much of a shortage where Intel and gadgets add up to the point that decent weapons and armor are unaffordable and special ammo is insanely expensive. You may try to argue past the game's flaws but generally speaking nearly every professional review out there reflects them so denial and trying to shift the fault for the game's many shortcomings will only get you so far.....why should I have to go looking through all the game's written details when the tutorial clearly taught me something....EMPs open locks without any further skill being necessary....are you saying that I should right off the bat assume the tutorial is broken? I never found a need to even think about EMPs until near the game's end and then the only rational thing to do was what the tutorial taught me.....only then did I find out the tutorial was broken.....when I was stuck. I take absolutely no blame for failing to immediately assume the tutorial was broken and go looking into things I didn't need for 99.99% of the game. The flaws go a lot further than that if you actually try to role-play the game and spend your money on intel and such to find out all you can about the game's story and characters because you will most likelybe left with no decent weapon/armor since they all half decent equipment costs over 100k....more around the 150k range and the really good equipment can run at 250k+. If you're serious about engineer then going on gadgets will cost you quite a bit and if you're on stealth the better silent armor and subsonic rounds will eat up large amounts of money too.

[Thorton_AP]

Use carriage returns please. It is VERY hard to read your posts.

 

I have played through the game 3 times and am on a 4th playthrough. For your 10th playthrough, you certainly don't appear to like the game.

 

When I go engineer, my primary weapon is the shotgun.

[Fallen Ghost]

I even got good at the 5 letter super fast hacks.

 

Though I have noticed that this seem to be performance based. When i fraps a lockpicking minigame (to show I don't have to pick up my mouse), I did notice that I had to move my mouse a lot more.

 

That's an oops for sure.

 

the 5 letter hacks are the only doable minigame on its hardest setting because you can always quit and 2 sets in 20 seconds depends on how fast you see them mostly but on the 360 and PS3 doing the bypass 12 nodes in 20 seconds can't be done because in order to shift the targetted circuit from left/right to the center takes well over a second, they are all scrambled up and noticing them takes time.....on consoles Hard bypassing IS broken.....regardless of what Tigress and you try to pretend. That is a FACT.

[Fallen Ghost]

Use carriage returns please. It is VERY hard to read your posts.

 

I have played through the game 3 times and am on a 4th playthrough. For your 10th playthrough, you certainly don't appear to like the game.

 

When I go engineer, my primary weapon is the shotgun.

 

I always pay attention to the story and ALWAYS try to go for the desired result in terms of molding the outcomes how I want....it's called ROLE PLAYING and the game does very well in this area...I now know how to work around the flaws but trying to deny they exist is quite another story.....which is exactly what you are doing here.

[Spydude]

The premise of the game is that you have to find your own money. They tell you this. As well as the game is about choice. If you try to get all the money you can there is close to $1mil total. I'll have to count up the exact figure, but you can start at Saudi with $35000 or so and discounts on gear/intel. I never buy all maps and intel. I pick and choose the good ones. Most of that stuff is unnecessary. If you want a character that requires a bunch of funds to make it then you need to make compromises(choice). If you are trying to actively seek out a bad build then I'm sure it's possible to not make it. Has anyone tried a hard/recruit run with no skills and only default weapons?

Edited June 18, 2010 by Spydude

[Oner]

Not to mention that tech guys eventually get +100% money after a hack/whatever.

[Alpha]

2) If you use a stealth takedown to kill the first man, often, other enemies will go 'yellow' and come to the scene of the crime. If you time it right, you can use that first man as a bait and then get 'em all.

3) Incendiary grenades have a very large area of effect and sometimes they take a few seconds to come into effect - even

 

 

nice tips...this reminds me of Batman AA.

 

Gadget works great although i hate the mines.

[Oblarg]

I've done the hardest version of each minigame with a fairly high success rate - they're certainly not impossible.

 

As for money being limited, that's not a design flaw - it's a feature. You think we should have infinite money and be able to buy out the entire damn clearinghouse? No, that would be moronic. You have to prioritize, and it adds depth to the game. Even so, I'm usually able to afford 3-star armor and main weapon, as well as most (not all) of the available intel. I find myself constantly looking for money on missions, which means the system works well.

 

Perks are not supposed to be something you work towards or something you buy. They're supposed to be minor bonuses the game gives you to match the style with which you are playing through the game. You're not supposed to actively try to get each perk in the game - that's idiotic and defeats the purpose of the system.

[Achilles]

Has anyone tried a hard/recruit run with no skills and only default weapons?

I did the recruit run on normal without purchasing any armor. Of course that was a stealth build so...

 

It actually wasn't too bad (in fact it was kinda awesome), but I will tell you that I died A LOT during End Game. Made it though.

[Sannom]

I've done the hardest version of each minigame with a fairly high success rate - they're certainly not impossible.

 

For me, getting to Taipei from Moscow was... brutal to say the least I missed almost all the optional content in the Grand Hotel mission, and I spent ten or so minutes to open that first door after you find the informant in the metro station (THAT was frustrating!). The most surprising was the alarm/electronic lock mini-game : it has probably the "best" difficulty curve of the three mini-games. Harder ones have more nodes to activate, less time to open them. It's harder to spot the right one at the right moment, it's harder to see the right path, and the timer is even more stressful. Lockpicking and hacking really just have the timer that evolves with difficulty.