Fallout: New Vegas

[Jackalmonkey]

But what gets me in FO3 VATS, is the slo-mo and the repitition.

 

It's just not that funny. Or interesting. For more than a few minutes.

Word. The slo-mo and the (unskippable!) repetition amount to a massive time sink if the player uses VATS every time it's up (i.e., if they use it as intended). It is boring.

 

My point about the acronym is really that it could have been anything. It could have been PATS, or PATH, or ATS, or AT (or FAT! lol, fat), for instance, and yet they said to themselves: VATS. Yes, VATS.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Actually, they CAN modify VATS if they want too.

Modders did it without problems, so I think Obsidian can.

Heck, they added special moves for melee weapons, a thing that modders couldn't do.

 

If you mean 'Bethesda wouldn't want that' honestly I'm not sure.

They didn't seem to mind much all the other changes to game balance after all.

 

EDIT : Forgot to quote Jackalope's post. Whatever, it should be clear who I'm talking to

Edited June 23, 2010 by WorstUsernameEver

[HoonDing]

Did T. Howard & E. Pagliarulo really say that about VATS? I'd like to see those quotes in context.

Edited June 23, 2010 by virumor

[Jackalmonkey]

Actually, they CAN modify VATS if they want too [...] If you mean 'Bethesda wouldn't want that' honestly I'm not sure.

They didn't seem to mind much all the other changes to game balance after all.

I'm aware that Obsidian does have plans to modify VATS (decreasing the initial/unmodified pool of AP, for instance) but I'd find it very hard to believe that Bethesda would allow anyone to alter the mechanic substantially (for instance, making VATS unavailable to anyone with an AGI below 5). For better or worse (guess which side I'm leaning), it's as integral to the new game as TBC was to the old.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Actually, they CAN modify VATS if they want too [...] If you mean 'Bethesda wouldn't want that' honestly I'm not sure.

They didn't seem to mind much all the other changes to game balance after all.

I'm aware that Obsidian does have plans to modify VATS (decreasing the initial/unmodified pool of AP, for instance) but I'd find it very hard to believe that Bethesda would allow anyone to alter the mechanic substantially (for instance, making VATS unavailable to anyone with an AGI below 5). For better or worse (guess which side I'm leaning), it's as integral to the new game as TBC was to the old.

 

Easy changes doable in-engine can change the feel of the system a lot though.

Take out or at least reduce the incredibly overpowered DR bonus, change the replay time and tweak the accuracy formulas, and you already have a system that feels different while having the same basis, and that's I guess what Obsidian will do.

Either way, as long as the real time combat is better, I'll probably just shoot like that without using vats.

[Jackalmonkey]

Did T. Howard & E. Pagliarulo really say that about VATS? I'd like to see those quotes in context.

The best I can do right now:

The Gamehelper preview is long since gone, though choice bits can be found here.

Emil's statement is from OXM, and though the article is not online, you can find excerpts here.

 

EDIT: I should note that the quote by Howard is actually duplicated to varying extents in several previews turned up by Google, all apparently covering the same press event.

 

Apologies, by the way, for linking to NMA and RPG Codex, as I've no affiliation or sympathy with either site. Every frontpage item at the Codex is a case study in the awkward superfluousness of teenage irony.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Jackalmonkey

[Tigranes]

The Emil / Todd quotes are pretty much on target, I remember reading them before FO3 was released, and dreading the slow-mo.

 

I think the only really bad thing about it was that it couldn't be turned off and it happened way too often. If it was the occasional blam like in the originals, it wouldn't have been a big deal.

 

I don't know. In the end I don't think VATS was that bad. It made the game too easy and broke the skills balance, but this can be fixed; the stupid slow-mo deaths can be, too. But the core mechanics of it and the combat experience it contributed to, as a whole, I think was decent enough. Not anything to remember fondly, but worked well enough for FO3.

[Wombat]

The Emil / Todd quotes are pretty much on target

On target ??? I haven't played FO3 but people here seem to be agreed that they are O.K. with the violence but not with the execution. Judging from what were shown about the explosion and ragdoll physics, Obsidian doesn't hesitate to employ the violence for amusement but they are unlikely to rob the players of the control of their characters more than a minute in the middle of combat. As far as I know, they didn't mention any tweak on VATS, though. They might have a plan but I'm inclined to believe that they just fixed some nuisances for realtime combat.

[Gorgon]

Just dial it down with a longer cool-down period so you would likely not use it more than once in an encounter. That way it would work fine IMHO.

[Irrelevant]

I'm hoping that they at least changed the 90% damage reduction during vats if not removed it altogether

Is this true? How did Bethesda get away with this? Doesn't that fact alone make the game completely broken? Holy ****...

[GreasyDogMeat]

I'm hoping that they at least changed the 90% damage reduction during vats if not removed it altogether

Is this true? How did Bethesda get away with this? Doesn't that fact alone make the game completely broken? Holy ****...

I tried a mod on the PC version that made you as vulnerable as you normally are and I died numerously in VATS, but I don't recal dying at any point during a VATS moment without mods/on the XBox version. Despite this, I still died a number of times in the game. If Fallout 3 is considered 'comletely broken', its one of the best 'completely broken' games I've ever played.

[taviow]

VATS shouldn't be something you can use for every situation. I think removing damage reduction would properly fix that. I would also think an agility requirement (7+) would be fine. Or make it a perk or something.

Edited June 24, 2010 by taviow

[Thorton_AP]

I think the idea is that VATS is designed to be able to be used for any situation.

 

The thing I like about VATS is that it means that people that don't typically care for FPS games or their mechanics are still able to play the game. I thought it was an acceptable nod to the history of the game, and actually enjoyed playing the game using almost exclusively VATS.

 

Can it be improved? For sure. But I had no issue with using it as it placed a bit more of the control in the character, not myself.

 

 

I definitely do not think that it should have any restrictions against using it at all (i.e. an agility requirement). Making it require a certain agility score greatly diminishes it's purpose IMO.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Thorton_AP

[taviow]

As long as it's purpose isn't making the game considerably easier anymore, then it's alright to always have it I guess.

[Thorton_AP]

Was it's purpose to make the game easier? I don't think it was.

[Tigranes]

The Emil / Todd quotes are pretty much on target

On target ??? I haven't played FO3 but people here seem to be agreed that they are O.K. with the violence but not with the execution. Judging from what were shown about the explosion and ragdoll physics, Obsidian doesn't hesitate to employ the violence for amusement but they are unlikely to rob the players of the control of their characters more than a minute in the middle of combat. As far as I know, they didn't mention any tweak on VATS, though. They might have a plan but I'm inclined to believe that they just fixed some nuisances for realtime combat.

 

I mean the quotes are accurate. Obviously my personal opinion is that they are mindnumbingly stupid.

[TheAssassin]

Yeah the only reason i used VATs alot in fallout 3 was because the bad aiming mechanic. Pseudo-iron sights is not iron sights; its pseudo-iron sights.

The weapon buffering should also improve things, but I imagine it will only be apparent with lower-end pc's, and/or during particularly resource intensive combat.

 

Have an xbox 360 soooo....yeah

[Slowtrain]

As long as it's optional, I'm ok with it.

 

But I am curious about the rationale behind the endless reptition of extreme slomotion violence that is VATS' hallmark.

 

Frankly, it does feel a little disturbing. Or boring. I can't decide which.

[Niten_Ryu]

Was it's purpose to make the game easier? I don't think it was.

 

I think it was one of the main reason why VATS is the way it is today. It's very imortant for the casual majority that games is as easy as possible. VATS let 'em complitely ignore aiming manually and protect 'em from damage at the same time. It's working as intented. VATS perform the same function as bullet time did in Max Payne, Dead Eye in Red Dead Redemption or whatever the new multikill system is called in Spinter Cell Conviction or DeusEx3.

[cronicler]

WorstUE: I haven't played the newest (or maybe middle age) mods but I recall that modders weren't able to completely "turn off" the slow-mo and Dr due to some hardcode issues. The best that you could do was to ducktape a damage multiplier (and speed multiplier) onto vanilla Vats which did make it a bit more unstable but closer to normal. Maybe this "did" got changed with a dlc.

[Thorton_AP]

Was it's purpose to make the game easier? I don't think it was.

 

I think it was one of the main reason why VATS is the way it is today. It's very imortant for the casual majority that games is as easy as possible. VATS let 'em complitely ignore aiming manually and protect 'em from damage at the same time. It's working as intented. VATS perform the same function as bullet time did in Max Payne, Dead Eye in Red Dead Redemption or whatever the new multikill system is called in Spinter Cell Conviction or DeusEx3.

 

 

Meh, I consider it "accessible" but I guess it's the same thing. Or at the very least similar.

 

To me, VATS was a way to allow the game player the option to use their character skill to attack enemies. I can understand the DR (even if I don't agree with it), because control is suspended while in VATS.

[Wombat]

DAC updated the list of E3 previews (I wonder if there is a new one, though).

 

Frankly, it does feel a little disturbing. Or boring. I can't decide which.

Oh, then, it's my part of misunderstanding. That said, I still think it depends on the execution. If Bethesda intended humor, then, they should have made sure the violence look like that in the eyes of their players. At least, judging from what I saw in preview demos, Obsidian seem to have done it right. The explosion effects which shoot ragdolls into air in FO:NV doesn't seem to even try to look realistic. The intended effects appear to be well expressed through ragdoll physics. I wonder if Obsidian is planning to do something on the existing "implementation" of Bethesda, though.

 

Also, there seem to be special attack moves for melee weapons in VATS. We all know a special attack is directed to a certain part of male characters. Of course, we haven't gotten infor about all the attacks but at least the attack is intended to be humorous. I wonder how Obsidian concretely deal with the repetition issues, though. For, especially when it comes to humor, repetition can quickly worn it off. Then again, since the players can use these special attacks at their will, they may not be bothered too much.

[Slowtrain]

I wonder what the rationale was for making every single VATS attack a slomo event.

 

To me, on the surface, when coupled with the ludicrously violent animations, there appears no point except to rub the players face in violent animations over and over again.

 

But maybe they were just thinking of how to do some sort of bullettime-esque feature and over did it.

 

Also, speaking pragmatically, with the amount of combat in the game, it must be rather wearisome to use VATS all or most of the time.

 

But again, it is optional, which is really the best approach.

[Wombat]

I wonder what the rationale was for making every single VATS attack a slomo event.

Obviously my personal opinion is that they are mindnumbingly stupid.

I haven't played it, so, I'd refrain from telling my own opinion, though.

[Amentep]

But maybe they were just thinking of how to do some sort of bullettime-esque feature and over did it.

 

This is what I thought it was, what with the camera sometimes closing in on the PC's face and following a bullet to its targer.

 

Sadly most of the reality of VATS was that you were looking at a closeup of a supermutant's chin as your character unloaded a gun into his head while blocky blood spewed over the screen.