2010 FIFA World Cup

[Starwars]

 

Hell yeah

[Blarghagh]

Suarez gears himself for the Volleyball World Championship, obviously.

 

[HoonDing]

Considering how this tournament has been going, I'm actually surprised that Suarez got sent off. Imagine if the referee hadn't "noticed" the handball and Suarez went on to score the deciding penalty.

[Walsingham]

I didn't see the match, but I do get frustrated by the incredibly poor standards of sportsmanship shown throughout, not so much for their existence, but their celebration by 'fans'. I'm know I'm as old school as an Eton mess, but IMO...

 

1. If you are a fan then what you celebrate shows what you are a fan of.

2. If you celebrate cynical diving, handballs, or whatever then you aren't a fan of football, you're a fan of men who are ****s and...

3. It should say so on your ****ing overpriced shirt.

 

EDIT:

 

I'm not angry with the 'fans' so much as at the colossal waste of time and attention it is to invest so heavily in a sport which is little more than an exercise in product placement. Sport shouldn't be mere commerce. Being a fan shouldn't be mere commerce. Being mere commerce is WHY everything is sacrificed for the grubbiest advantage.

 

I don't care what the sport is but real sport at the highest level should be a contest of all the human faculties in a spirit of wanting to test those faculties, not simply to win by one point or one play acting moment.

Edited July 2, 2010 by Walsingham

[Krookie]

It's times like this when I understand why myself, and the rest of America hasn't caught the soccer bug. Who the HELL would want to watch a bunch of foreigners run around, pretend to be hurt, cheat, and then celebrate they're mediocre acting? If I want to see poor acting followed by cheating I'll go to a Sandra Bullock film.

[Gorth]

If I want to see poor acting followed by cheating I'll go to a Sandra Bullock film.

Sandra Bullock has nothing on

or

[Volourn]

http://g.ca.sports.yahoo.com/soccer/world-...ball070110.html

[Guest The Architect]

Suarez did the right thing. It's well within your rights to handball a ball to stop a goal on the goal line. You are just trading off a certain goal, with being sent off and the off chance a penalty will be missed or saved. When it's the last minute or so of the game and penalties are coming up, at this point you have nothing to lose, so you do anything to stop the goal and Suarez was clever and courageous enough to do so. After all it is the World Cup. It might be a long time before Uruguay gets another chance like this to win it.

[Nepenthe]

Suarez did the right thing. It's well within your rights to handball a ball to stop a goal on the goal line. You are just trading off a certain goal, with being sent off and the off chance a penalty will be missed or saved.

 

I agree. "Cheating"'s been pervasive in these games, but I don't think this was an example of it. Definitely not in the same league as faking a red card to the other team.

 

3. It should say so on your ****ing overpriced shirt.

 

Actually, the Puma USP shirts from a couple of years ago are the best workout shirts I've ever owned!

Edited July 3, 2010 by Nepenthe

[Walsingham]

Suarez did the right thing. It's well within your rights to handball a ball to stop a goal on the goal line. You are just trading off a certain goal, with being sent off and the off chance a penalty will be missed or saved. When it's the last minute or so of the game and penalties are coming up, at this point you have nothing to lose, so you do anything to stop the goal and Suarez was clever and courageous enough to do so. After all it is the World Cup. It might be a long time before Uruguay gets another chance like this to win it.

 

This is PRECISELY the kind of accountant's thinking I just raged against. I can only assume your comment is deliberately provocative.

 

EDIT: If it isn't:

 

Just consider WHY the World Cup is prized? It is prixzed because it is supposed to represent the sum total exertion required to win it. This is different each World Cup, but assumed to be an exertion of positive qualities like endurance, skill, imagination, discipline etc.

 

If you only get the Cup because you are a cynical cheating t**t then what you have just won becomes a celebration of being a t**t instead.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Walsingham

[Gorgon]

I don't know if I agree it's unsportsmanlike. If the call had been missed it would have been a tragedy, but somehow not stopping the ball going into your own goal seems like a bigger crime than making an impromptu goalie save.

[Blarghagh]

Suarez did the right thing. It's well within your rights to handball a ball to stop a goal on the goal line. You are just trading off a certain goal, with being sent off and the off chance a penalty will be missed or saved. When it's the last minute or so of the game and penalties are coming up, at this point you have nothing to lose, so you do anything to stop the goal and Suarez was clever and courageous enough to do so. After all it is the World Cup. It might be a long time before Uruguay gets another chance like this to win it.

 

This is bull****. A penalty is called a penalty for a reason - it's a PUNISHMENT for doing something WRONG. The goal of the system is in place to prevent these things from happening, not to have players strategically abuse them. It is NOT within rights, otherwise it wouldn't be punished. I am so sick of players abusing the rules, that's just unsportsmanlike behavior. Not just this but also crap like deliberately falling down to try and coax a free kick out of the ref, which is something Suarez was also guilty of throughout his career. It's a jerk-move, it makes a mockery of football and as far as I'm concerned Uruguay should be disqualified, and at the least constant cheater Suarez should be banned from ever playing football in a league again. They may officially be the winner, but they came out as losers and have NOTHING to be proud of.

Edited July 3, 2010 by TrueNeutral

[Meshugger]

The tone here is a bit strange, i think that The Architect is completely right on what happened, and explained it in a very calm and rational manner. How is that deliberately provocative?

 

- Point one: If Ghana would've scored the penalty, then none of us would have this conversation.

- Point two: The referee did the right thing with giving Ghana the penalty. Which brings me to....

- Point three: What do you guys really want the referee to do? Giving Ghana a goal because the ball could've potentially ended in the net? Giving Suarez THE BLACK CARD and ban him forever from football? Which brings me to...

- Point four: Do you wish that Suarez should've acted like an absurd gentleman, letting Ghana score because of the notion that Ghana deserved it? No one in any team does that, why the outrage really?

- Point five: Again, about this "deserving to win". What country deserves to win when they failed to score three penalties?

 

If anything, you should be pissed off at the Gyan failing to deliver when it matters.

[Blarghagh]

He may be right on what happened, he definitely isn't right on whether or not it was a good thing. "Clever and courageous" is what he said, and that just isn't true. It was an underhanded tactic that has no place in a civilized sport. As for Gyan failing the penalty, he shouldn't have been put into this situation in the first place. If anything, it goes to show how ineffective the rules are and that they need to be tightened because they allow for these kinds of things to happen. Deliberately making a foul to prevent a goal is simply cheating, no way around it, but if the consequences just aren't harsh enough to properly deter players from doing it, it just goes to show that something is wrong with the game.

[Balthamael]

In the last minute of a basketball game, you often see the losing team deliberately fouling and conceding free throws, because that'll keep the other team from running down the clock. This is an accepted strategy, I have never heard anyone complaining about it. I don't understand how that is any less underhanded than what Suarez did. Deliberately taking a red card and conceding a penalty helped his team in the situation, so he did it. Too bad Ghana couldn't finish it, but they have no one to blame but themselves.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Balthamael

[Meshugger]

He may be right on what happened, he definitely isn't right on whether or not it was a good thing. "Clever and courageous" is what he said, and that just isn't true. It was an underhanded tactic that has no place in a civilized sport. As for Gyan failing the penalty, he shouldn't have been put into this situation in the first place. If anything, it goes to show how ineffective the rules are and that they need to be tightened because they allow for these kinds of things to happen. Deliberately making a foul to prevent a goal is simply cheating, no way around it, but if the consequences just aren't harsh enough to properly deter players from doing it, it just goes to show that something is wrong with the game.

 

Give the guy a break, he gave himself a red card and thus sacrificed himself for his team. I think that it is more appalling with people who deliberately fake injuries in order to stall time, send people of the other team out or to get a free kick/penalty.

[Hurlshort]

It is expected in hockey that if a guy is in front of your net with the puck, you take him down by any means necessary. I can't even wrap my head around a different mentality. Is futbol really that different from other sports that you just concede goals?

[Tigranes]

I don't know, since all I know about hockey is those big scrums wehre everyone smashes each other with their hockey sticks, but that's probably not representative.

 

In a pragmatic short term sense Suarez did something that is worth doing - in the sense that it's cost effective. The red card of one player, the insults, the penalty risk, etc., is a legitimate risk to take to stave off one goal, if you only care about winning. In Suarez' position? Maybe he does.

 

Now, in the position of a commentator, pundit, fan, observer, forumer, official? It's despicable and there's no sense in condoning this kind of thing, because it just helps ruin the sport for everyone involved. (I mean, it's quite different from wasting time next to a corner flag.)

 

edit: BBC quotes Suarez:

 

"The 'Hand of God' now belongs to me. Mine is the real 'Hand Of God'. I made the best save of the tournament. Sometimes in training I play as a goalkeeper so it was worth it. There was no alternative but for me to do that."

 

Seriously?

[Blarghagh]

It shouldn't be legitimate risk. There are rules AGAINST it for a reason. It should deter players from doing it.

[Wombat]

Somehow I think Argentina would've totally destroyed the Dutchies in the first half. They were terrible, almost as bad as England in the first half against Germany.

Yea...it was like the more Brazil lost their confidence, the more Netherlands recovered it...

 

As for Suarez's hand, I, myself, intentionally did it in a much less important match in my school days, which may make my opinion less neutral. That said, I think it is just a tactical choice. He knew he would be sent out but he thought it's worth the risk. He will not be able to get in the field against Netherlands but it couldn't have been only him if he hadn't taken the risk...a tough decision.

[Tigranes]

It shouldn't be legitimate risk. There are rules AGAINST it for a reason. It should deter players from doing it.

 

The rules should, ideally, make it a risk not *worth* taking, yes. But in this case the only way to do it is give it as a goal and give a red card - and I doubt FIFA want to set a precedent of allowing a referee to declare goals like that.

 

Again, tactically, currently, it's 'worth' the cost - whether that makes it the right choice for Suarez is not clear cut. But for anyone that's watching and likes football, there's no reason to applaud it.

[213374U]

It shouldn't be legitimate risk. There are rules AGAINST it for a reason. It should deter players from doing it.

 

The rules should, ideally, make it a risk not *worth* taking, yes.

I don't think so. If the idea was that offenses are to be punished so sternly that nobody would ever commit any willingly... they would be. The way the rules are set, tactical fouls are just another element of the game. Opinions to the contrary are, I think, holding the sport to an unrealistically romanticized standard.

 

In fact, for truly unsportsmanlike acts (aggression, mostly), associations have committees deliberate and impose special sanctions on players, after the game. I'm not sure if any player has ever been perma-banned from playing, but the penalties imposed can be pretty harsh at times, regardless.

Edited July 3, 2010 by 213374U

[Volourn]

"Deliberately making a foul to prevent a goal is simply cheating, no way around it, but if the consequences just aren't harsh enough to properly deter players from doing it, it just goes to show that something is wrong with the game."

 

Huh? Tell that to the NHL player who hooks someone on the breakaway to stop theem or someone fouling at the end of the game in basketball. This is silly talk.

[Tigranes]

In fact, for truly unsportsmanlike acts (aggression, mostly), associations have committees deliberate and impose special sanctions on players, after the game. I'm not sure if any player has ever been perma-banned from playing, but the penalties imposed can be pretty harsh at times, regardless.

 

They exist, but in practice they are so lenient that, in fact, an economy of rule-bending thrives. How do you break someone's, say, fibula and tibia, risking that person's career and putting him out of commission for ~12 months, and receive a 3 match ban? I'm not saying tit for tat, but examples are plentiful: a cynical foul to win a critical match is worth it most of the time (Suarez), as well.

 

Germany scores again after some nervous minutes, the Argies have been frustraetd and their defensive failings have finally been exposed.

[Blarghagh]

"Deliberately making a foul to prevent a goal is simply cheating, no way around it, but if the consequences just aren't harsh enough to properly deter players from doing it, it just goes to show that something is wrong with the game."

 

Huh? Tell that to the NHL player who hooks someone on the breakaway to stop theem or someone fouling at the end of the game in basketball. This is silly talk.

 

I dunno about the NHL thing because I've never watched Hockey, but for the basketball: Same thing. It's not within the rules of the game. It's the same as exploiting a glitch in a competitive video game. It's cheating, plain and simple. Just because it's been allowed and/or tolerated doesn't mean it's right.

 

Germany winning again.

Edited July 3, 2010 by TrueNeutral