Mexifornia

[Thorton_AP]

Meh, I could see Americans (or any culture) taking notice if they were on the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

 

Put a group of Americans in a place where they're celebrating 4th of July in Mexico, and have a few Mexicans decide to wear their Mexican flags to the event, and I'd be surprised if no one said anything about it.

 

This wasn't an exclusive Cinco de Mayo celebration, this was a school.

 

Should it matter where it happened? I never used the term exclusive. I just said "a place" because I believe it could be anywhere.

 

How would Americans have felt if, July 4th 1777, a bunch of people came to a U.S. school wearing clothes that had the Union Jack on it. Or is it just dismissed because it's not 1777. Take a group of people that feel oppression for whatever reason (colony status, or racism), and during a day they celebrate, I think it is safe to say the chances of something less cordial occurring increases.

 

 

I don't think it was handled well by the vice principal, but at the same time I don't think the kids exercised good judgment. On the plus side, it doesn't sound like anyone celebrating Cinco de Mayo actually did make a stink about it.

Edited May 7, 2010 by Thorton_AP

[Wrath of Dagon]

Put a group of Americans in a place where they're celebrating 4th of July in Mexico, and have a few Mexicans decide to wear their Mexican flags to the event, and I'd be surprised if no one said anything about it.

That's total nonsense. The only polite thing to do would be to put up both Mexican and American flags, so that the locals don't feel left out or like you're insulting their country. And these aren't Mexicans, these are supposed to be American citizens!

[Tigranes]

What the heck? Why do you need to put up both flags? The only people that would appease are oversensitive flag-freaks.

[Thorton_AP]

I probably wouldn't bother raising both flags. I doubt it'd cross my mind at all before this conversation.

 

Is the real issue that you feel offended because they weren't also flying the American flag?

Edited May 7, 2010 by Thorton_AP

[Gorth]

What was the intent of those kids? Did they want to celebrate American values or were they just trying to to create a conflict situation deliberately?

 

If the former, commendable, if the latter, then I foresee a great future as football (soccer) hooligans for them.

 

Of course, I'm slightly biased since I think an individuals nationalist tendencies is inversely proportional with his intelligence.

[Enoch]

One tiny point: If it were just T-shirts, I doubt anybody would have noticed or cared. The additional obnoxiousness of wearing flag-patterned bandanas on their heads is probably what brought the attention of the powers-that-be. Hell, when I was in high school, I recall that wearing the any kind of bandana one one's head in the building was a violation of school rules.

[GreasyDogMeat]

One tiny point: If it were just T-shirts, I doubt anybody would have noticed or cared. The additional obnoxiousness of wearing flag-patterned bandanas on their heads is probably what brought the attention of the powers-that-be. Hell, when I was in high school, I recall that wearing the any kind of bandana one one's head in the building was a violation of school rules.

Making them remove their bandanas (did they all wear bandanas)? Sure. It isn't standard school attire. Turning their shirts inside out? Idiotic. If you have seen shots of one of the kids' shirts it isn't even a massive flag but a rather small flag on the front of the shirt.

 

I have a feeling this was just some butt-hurt hispanic teacher pmsing over the recent Arizona law trying to take it out on students.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I probably wouldn't bother raising both flags. I doubt it'd cross my mind at all before this conversation.

 

Is the real issue that you feel offended because they weren't also flying the American flag?

Not only not flying it, but not letting anyone else carry it either. That is the issue. If both flags were there there would be no issue. If you are on a coutry's soil, you have to respect that country's flag. You don't put up your own flag on foreign soil without also putting up their flag, that's simply respect. This is much worse though, these are American citizens offended by the American flag on American soil in an American public school paid for by American taxpayers. You get the point?

[Calax]

I probably wouldn't bother raising both flags. I doubt it'd cross my mind at all before this conversation.

 

Is the real issue that you feel offended because they weren't also flying the American flag?

Not only not flying it, but not letting anyone else carry it either. That is the issue. If both flags were there there would be no issue. If you are on a coutry's soil, you have to respect that country's flag. You don't put up your own flag on foreign soil without also putting up their flag, that's simply respect. This is much worse though, these are American citizens offended by the American flag on American soil in an American public school paid for by American taxpayers. You get the point?

So, all those people who say "The south shall rise again" and wear the stars and bars shouldn't celebrate their heritage either, and should just shut up and stand there...

 

And I think they were more offended by the intent behind the flag waving "patriotism" of the other students than the actual flags themselves.

[Tigranes]

Not only not flying it, but not letting anyone else carry it either.

 

That's a blatantly hyperbolic misrepresentation of what happened in the school in the original news story. Seriously, this isn't about flags. It's about some idiot kids who decided to piss other people off, and got told not to.

[~Di]

This should have been a non-issue, totally ignored by the school. Instead, they turned it into a race-baited pissing context, particularly since AZ's law which actually enforces the same immigration laws that the government has been bribed to ignore for decades has certain hispanic groups screaming from coast to coast about how persecuted hispanics are.

 

These kids felt "disrespected" because 5 boys out of hundreds wore flag t-shirts? That's BS. Disrespect is ignoring all of America's immigration laws and pouring 20+million people into the country illegally, where they immediately steal somebody else's ID, take jobs, use taxpayer supported medical and welfare services, pay absolutely no income tax, and cause severe economic drains on the areas most heavily affected.

 

Disrespect is flooding the streets with thousands of protestors waving Mexican flags because the guy selling stolen social security, credit card, and green card numbers out of his car trunk in a mall parking lot was arrested. Disrespect is those protestors chanting that illegal aliens have the right to be here illegally, and to buy all the forged and stolen documents they want without police interference.

 

This is America. People live here who were born in hundreds of different countries and different cultures. We welcome all our immigrants, legal immigrants. We accept their different cultures, in fact embrace many of their cultures within our own, so long as they live by American laws. Coming to America, then protesting the American flag because it "offends" them on "their day"... now that's disrespect, my friends.

Edited May 7, 2010 by ~Di

[Hurlshort]

My wife is an alum of the school, and I was told by her that bandanna's are indeed against the dress code.

[Oblarg]

My wife is an alum of the school, and I was told by her that bandanna's are indeed against the dress code.

 

Then have them remove the bandannas. That doesn't involve turning your t-shirt inside out.

[Wrath of Dagon]

They did remove the bandannas. It's the T-shirts they refused to do, and were sent home.

 

Not only not flying it, but not letting anyone else carry it either.

 

That's a blatantly hyperbolic misrepresentation of what happened in the school in the original news story. Seriously, this isn't about flags. It's about some idiot kids who decided to piss other people off, and got told not to.

Yes, piss off other people by carrying their own flag on their own soil. Just like Mexicans are constantly pissing me off by carrying their own flags in their own country. You just don't get it, do you?

Edited May 7, 2010 by Wrath of Dagon

[Darque]

This is messed up.

 

Punished for wearing an American flag in America... on a Mexican holiday....

 

And on the next episode of the Twilight Zone.....

[Trenitay]

Everyone in this situation is just stupid. The stupid kids shouldn't have done it, the rest of the stupid people shouldn't be angry, and the stupid school should have handled it differently.

[Calax]

They did remove the bandannas. It's the T-shirts they refused to do, and were sent home.

 

Not only not flying it, but not letting anyone else carry it either.

 

That's a blatantly hyperbolic misrepresentation of what happened in the school in the original news story. Seriously, this isn't about flags. It's about some idiot kids who decided to piss other people off, and got told not to.

Yes, piss off other people by carrying their own flag on their own soil. Just like Mexicans are constantly pissing me off by carrying their own flags in their own country. You just don't get it, do you?

do rednecks with the confed flag piss you off too?

[Tigranes]

Yes, piss off other people by carrying their own flag on their own soil. Just like Mexicans are constantly pissing me off by carrying their own flags in their own country. You just don't get it, do you?

 

Context and intention means nothing to you, does it? Just dogma. Anyway, I give up, because the thread has been won by:

 

Everyone in this situation is just stupid.

 

[Thorton_AP]

If you are on a coutry's soil, you have to respect that country's flag. You don't put up your own flag on foreign soil without also putting up their flag, that's simply respect.

 

I have never heard of this convention.

[Gromnir]

On a side note, if these kids had done the same thing a little down the road in Salinas, they would have probably been shot.

 

dunno 'bout that. the market boyz (nortenos) is far more likely to shoot their southern california affiliated counterparts (surenos) than they is to shoot some punks looking to stir up trouble on a school campus. 'course, in salinas we doubt most kids would risk such a move as they would probably be assured o' receiving a serious beating later. am not certain what the current status o' the salinas peckerwoods is, but those clowns might do something foolish on cinco de mayo.

 

as for the actual incident... honestly, am not really gonna fault how the school staff reacted in the heat of the moment. 'course the district couldn't back 'em up on this one. but depending on the atmosphere on campus, an immediate and seemingly over-the-top reaction mighta' actual been appropriate. the kids with the American flag tees were being jerks. 'course, if every jerk kid were suspended, our schools would not have such overcrowding issues. in an ideal world, these jerky kids shoulda' been ignored by their hispanic peers... but what does an administrator do if they see that the hispanics on campus is NOT prepared to ignore the jerks?

 

what would Gromnir have done? given our background, we would not have demanded that the jerky kids remove their patriotic garb. however, we woulda' escorted the kids to the school office and then informed them that, for their safety, we could not send 'em back to class 'less they removed their colorful bits o' Americana. we would claim that we had overheard threats directed at the jerky kids... though of course we would be unable to identify which other specific students made the threats in a crowded lunch/brunch setting. we would call parents and inform them o' the situation... making sure that the parents understood that our only concern were the safety and well-being of their children. no demand to remove, but inform that given the potential safety concerns, we would not be sending back to class dressed as they were.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 7, 2010 by Gromnir

[Walsingham]

It's just a school. I remember my school tried to enforce a strict 'shiny shoes only' policy, so we took to wearing plastic ones.

[RPGmasterBoo]

@Wrath of Dagon: reading the replies of people in this thread I can see why you're distressed.

 

@Gromnir: they were being jerks for wearing their flag on another minority's holiday? I'm sorry that doesn't compute. Perhaps in the US such things are related, from where I am standing there is no connection whatsoever. As I understand it there are plenty of US flags on ST Patrick's day, and the Irish don't complain.

 

One thing I can tell you for sure is that the way it has been handled is going to inspire racial hatred, not solve it. If the kids that were wearing flags didn't like latinos before, now they're going to hate them.

[HoonDing]

I don't understand why a foreign holiday should be celebrated at an American school.

 

But this hoopnanny reminds me of when the Moroccon or Turkish national football teams come to Brussels to play our national football team, and the stadium's packed with Moroccon/Turkish immigrants who boo/whistle when the Belgian national anthem is played. *chuckle*

 

Thankfully though, Belgians being the most anti-nationalistic people in the world, combined with extremely low self-esteem due to a history of national & international major screw-ups, don't give a hoot.

[Guard Dog]

I don't understand why a foreign holiday should be celebrated at an American school.

 

Especially one that was contrived entirely to sell beer. It does seem hypocritical doesn't it?

 

On another note, this is the exact kind of story that will stoke American nationalisim and create a very powerful voter push back on any kind of immigration reform. Remember in 2006 the immigration protesters hauling down the American flag and running up a Mexican one at that post office. Couple that with that La Raza bunch calling for the creation of the Republica de Norte by siezing New Mexico, Arizona and southern California and most Americans were ready to lynch any congressman who voted in favor of amnesty. The fact that they backed it caused the Republicans to lose Congress in 2006 because most of their supporters stayed home.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Remember in 2006 the immigration protesters hauling down the American flag and running up a Mexican one at that post office.

 

Jesus, I thought that sort of stuff only passed by our spineless government (we had Albanians taking down the state flag from a post office in a southern province and putting up an Albanian one).

 

I'll never understand where this political correctness nonsense comes from.