Fallout: New Vegas

[WorstUsernameEver]

DAC?

 

Duck and Cover I guess.

[Walsingham]

I put in several hours on FO3 (vanilla - I can't currrently afford the expansions) today and identified two things which work veryw ell in breaking immersion:

 

1. Magically respawning enemies. I can leave a point, come back five minutes later, and it's as if they've been teleported in.

 

- Make respawn times scale to difficulty

- Make respawned NPCs act differently if their location is littered with corpses. Be inquisitive, act defensive. Anything.

 

2. Locations are simply a mess. I accept untidiness is probably a given in the aftermath of a global holocaust, but untidiness isn't random junk strewn everywhere. Just come round to my house for an example. Inhabited areas have paths through the junk, and piles of junk in corners.

 

- Who 'lives' in an area. What things do they use? Are they organised?

 

THREE things. The THREE main immersion breakers...

 

3. Everyone except raiders is highly civilised. They slot neatly into roles as traders and waitresses and guards. FFS surely a key point is the breakdown and end of civilisation.

 

- People raised outside vaults won't be able to read, wont have watched TV, and will be very cautious around outsiders

[Slowtrain]

I put in several hours on FO3 (vanilla - I can't currrently afford the expansions) today and identified two things which work veryw ell in breaking immersion:

 

1. Magically respawning enemies. I can leave a point, come back five minutes later, and it's as if they've been teleported in.

 

- Make respawn times scale to difficulty

- Make respawned NPCs act differently if their location is littered with corpses. Be inquisitive, act defensive. Anything.

 

2. Locations are simply a mess. I accept untidiness is probably a given in the aftermath of a global holocaust, but untidiness isn't random junk strewn everywhere. Just come round to my house for an example. Inhabited areas have paths through the junk, and piles of junk in corners.

 

- Who 'lives' in an area. What things do they use? Are they organised?

 

THREE things. The THREE main immersion breakers...

 

3. Everyone except raiders is highly civilised. They slot neatly into roles as traders and waitresses and guards. FFS surely a key point is the breakdown and end of civilisation.

 

- People raised outside vaults won't be able to read, wont have watched TV, and will be very cautious around outsiders

 

 

I think you're talking about a level of coherence and rationalization in world building that is so far beyond Bethesda that they would simply stare at you in silence for a while and then go "huh?"

[Thorton_AP]

1. Magically respawning enemies. I can leave a point, come back five minutes later, and it's as if they've been teleported in.

 

- Make respawn times scale to difficulty

- Make respawned NPCs act differently if their location is littered with corpses. Be inquisitive, act defensive. Anything.

 

That is one thing I absolutely hated about STALKER as well!!! So annoying!

[TwinkieGorilla]

I think you're talking about a level of coherence and rationalization in world building that is so far beyond Bethesda that they would simply stare at you in silence for a while and then go "huh?"

 

please tell me you are actually "CrashGirl" because that would make having this quote in my sig even sweeter.

[Nemo0071]

I put in several hours on FO3 (vanilla - I can't currrently afford the expansions) today and identified two things which work veryw ell in breaking immersion:

 

1. Magically respawning enemies. I can leave a point, come back five minutes later, and it's as if they've been teleported in.

 

- Make respawn times scale to difficulty

- Make respawned NPCs act differently if their location is littered with corpses. Be inquisitive, act defensive. Anything.

At times, the unbalanced respawn system is not only immersion breaking, but also game breaking. Like when I enter a metro station, realize I forgot something outside / get ambushed by ghouls inside etc. and quickly run outside, only to find 3 Talon Company douchebags with combat shotguns. In my face. Fun times.

 

 

2. Locations are simply a mess. I accept untidiness is probably a given in the aftermath of a global holocaust, but untidiness isn't random junk strewn everywhere. Just come round to my house for an example. Inhabited areas have paths through the junk, and piles of junk in corners.

 

- Who 'lives' in an area. What things do they use? Are they organised?

Actually the random junk lying around makes perfect sense, but like you mentioned, not in inhabited areas. At first, I thought they were pretty succesful in adding to the whole "post-apocalypse" feel, until I started "decorating" my own house in the game. Then the billions of empty tin cans sitting on walkways / corridors started to look ridiculous...

 

I think it should be a rule of thumb to "decorate" living spaces (or regularly visited places) like the inhabitants would while you're designing areas.

 

I'm a raider. I'm a dumb psychopath who kills people for fun / loot. Would I still go to the trouble of hanging their mutilated corpses on my roof above my bed? Stuff like that.

 

 

THREE things. The THREE main immersion breakers...

 

3. Everyone except raiders is highly civilised. They slot neatly into roles as traders and waitresses and guards. FFS surely a key point is the breakdown and end of civilisation.

 

- People raised outside vaults won't be able to read, wont have watched TV, and will be very cautious around outsiders

Although I don't agree with the "end of civilisation" thing (people are people) I do agree that the folks in FO3 were a bit too... educated. Everyone except raiders of course, who were way too dumb if you ask me, which is just another extreme.

 

The thing is, I'm okay with most FO people being able to read & write (there is literature out there, somewhere; there has to be) but there should also be illiterate "civilized" people. At least people with different levels of education / knowledge. Folks in FO3 felt like they all went to the same high school... It also felt like IQ was the only determining factor, which was also implemented poorly imo.

 

 

 

edit: sorry for the wall of text. Walsingham is to blame

Edited May 10, 2010 by Nemo0071

[Thorton_AP]

At times, the unbalanced respawn system is not only immersion breaking, but also game breaking. Like when I enter a metro station, realize I forgot something outside / get ambushed by ghouls inside etc. and quickly run outside, only to find 3 Talon Company douchebags with combat shotguns. In my face. Fun times.

 

Was there a setting for this? It has been a long time since I last played FO3, but I vaguely recall area being rather barren after I cleared them out.

[Nemo0071]

At times, the unbalanced respawn system is not only immersion breaking, but also game breaking. Like when I enter a metro station, realize I forgot something outside / get ambushed by ghouls inside etc. and quickly run outside, only to find 3 Talon Company douchebags with combat shotguns. In my face. Fun times.

 

Was there a setting for this? It has been a long time since I last played FO3, but I vaguely recall area being rather barren after I cleared them out.

 

I guess you're thinking of special areas with no respawns. My example (the douchebags) were pretty random, usually outside metro / power stations. Out of the blue. In a second.

 

If you meant a changeable "game option" by setting, then no, afaik. I always played on Normal difficulty, btw.

[Thorton_AP]

Ah, I was remembering areas within the sewers and whatnot. They were probably considered special.

[WorstUsernameEver]

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topi...-informer-info/

 

I can't bother to copy all that info and credit the guy so I figured I'd just link it.

Sounds positive.

[WorstUsernameEver]

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topi...-informer-info/

 

I can't bother to copy all that info and credit the guy so I figured I'd just link it.

Sounds positive.

 

I ended up doing a bullet-point summary for another forum, so I figure I'll just post it here too for the people who don't want to rummage through all the 'yeaaaah!' and 'Obsidian is lazy!' posts of Bethesda's forums.

 

Take into account that this is a rewrite of a summary of a preview which may or may not be completely accurate in his information.

 

- One of the new followers is an ex-NCR soldier named Craig Boone whose wife has been kidnapped. Followers apparently will have their side quests (I think it was already mentioned, but since it wasn't in this forum..) so you can guess what Boone's quest will be.

 

- New weapons are shown : a machete, a pair of boxing gloves, razors, a SMG-looking gun, C4 with an included detonator.

 

- The Mad Max-looking leather jacket of Fallout 1/2 apparently makes a return, with a host of other outfits that the poster of Beth's forum didn't describe.

 

- Some new animations, like a new reload animation that show the bullets you're putting into the gun have been included.

 

- Combat is apparently now much more enjoyable outside VATS and the previewer found himself purposely not using it.

 

- Game Informer had the first look on the Strip : apparently it looks a lot like 50's Vegas, with bright-lighted Casinos.

 

- The Casinos will have their very own gambling mini-games. Luck (the SPECIAL stat) will of course play a big role in them. Blackjack, Poker, Roulette and Slot Machine are some of the games you can play.

 

- Vault 21 was apparently a vault where every conflict was resolved through gambling. It's now a casino.

 

- Some very interesting info about the Strip and New Vegas in general : apparently the city is in very good shape thanks to a man named Howard Hughes who lives in the Luck 38 (the Stratosphere look-alike you all already have seen in the teaser trailer). He keeps the city in shape with the use of police TV Robots, and apparently had a hand in keeping New Vegas out of bomb's range. Considering all this info my guess is that he isn't human.

 

- This means.. no mob families in Vegas. It will disappoint some and make a lot of hardcore fans who complained about New Reno happy. Personally I'm ok with it since mob families would have felt like a re-hash, though the exectuion in New Reno was almost perfect (the only thing I really would have changed is taking out the porn studios and changin a bit the appearance of the mobs to make them look more rugged).

 

- New Vegas will have 3 types of currency : old favorite caps, NCR dollars from Fallout 2 and Caesar's Legion money (apparently mentioned as 'coins' in some parts of the preview). There will be an exchange rate between this currencies and using the right currency with the right vendor will bring price benefits.

 

That's it, I think.

[Starwars]

Mostly very good info. Boxing gloves seems like it could mean we get another boxing arena type of deal. Reload animations sound good as does the general improvements to the combat. Gambling sounds good and fitting (hope Luck does play a really big role). Having a Vault where everything was decided by gambling sounds rather weird but I dig the fact that it's now turned into a casino. Love the different currencies.

 

Not sure about the background to the city though. I've never been big on robots being sort of plentiful in the Fallout setting, and I admit I had wished for something a bit more... well, seedy and sorta run down in New Vegas. But maybe that's just not coming through, I hope there is still plenty of despair to be found in the city. Really glad that we're not seeing the whole mob bosses deal again at any rate.

 

Hope OEI puts their good writers to the test when it comes to this Howard Hughes character.

[jero cvmi]

Mostly very good info. Boxing gloves seems like it could mean we get another boxing arena type of deal.

 

If you can't have called shots or special moves in unarmed fighting, boxing matches a la Fallout 2 will be boring as hell.

 

Otherwise, love all the new info.

 

Also someone "over there" in Bethesda forums posted that there are more than 3 currencies, including casino chips. Has that been confirmed?

[WorstUsernameEver]

Mostly very good info. Boxing gloves seems like it could mean we get another boxing arena type of deal.

 

If you can't have called shots or special moves in unarmed fighting, boxing matches a la Fallout 2 will be boring as hell.

 

Otherwise, love all the new info.

 

Also someone "over there" in Bethesda forums posted that there are more than 3 currencies, including casino chips. Has that been confirmed?

 

there's more than 3 types of currencies: There are caps, poker chips, legion gold, NCR dollars, regular dollars.

 

 

THat's going to require a lot of math to do the conversions....I hate math.....and vans....and vampires.....and the woods.....

 

I missed this post, thanks for pointing it to me. And since this gal is the same one that posted the initial summary (later confirmed by another poster) I'd say it's true, though of course, I don't have the magazine so I can't confirm it.

 

Another correction : Robots, robot police run & keep Vegas under raps controlled by a character inspired by Howard Hughes that lives in The Lucky 38. Lucky 38 is a place no one in the game has seen anyone get into since they care remember and no one has seen the Howard Hughes character himself go figure.

 

So it's not Howard Hughes himself but someone insipired by him.

Edited May 10, 2010 by WorstUsernameEver

[Slowtrain]

That all sounds pretty good for the most part. I'm glad to hear non-VATS combat may actually be more fun this time around.

[213374U]

If you can't have called shots or special moves in unarmed fighting, boxing matches a la Fallout 2 will be boring as hell.

On the other hand, raising your "unarmed" high enough and getting "better criticals" could result in your STR 5 character consistently pulling 1-punch-kills (often leaving you stranded in the ring, too). This was a bit ridiculous, and going bare-handed vs Enclave goons was even worse...

 

Meh, who am I kidding. I want the return of Kung-Fu master builds.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Stolen shamelessly from No Mutants Allowed I present you a new interview with MCA.

[Amentep]

I put in several hours on FO3 (vanilla - I can't currrently afford the expansions) today and identified two things which work veryw ell in breaking immersion:

 

1. Magically respawning enemies. I can leave a point, come back five minutes later, and it's as if they've been teleported in.

 

- Make respawn times scale to difficulty

- Make respawned NPCs act differently if their location is littered with corpses. Be inquisitive, act defensive. Anything.

 

I've never encountered instantly respawning enemies before. If I kill a Talon company group, enter the sewer and leave they're still dead.

 

Even in the metro area, there's a group of respawning super-mutants near the area where the Jefferson Memoria/Rivet City road meets and they never respawn instantly.

 

2. Locations are simply a mess. I accept untidiness is probably a given in the aftermath of a global holocaust, but untidiness isn't random junk strewn everywhere. Just come round to my house for an example. Inhabited areas have paths through the junk, and piles of junk in corners.

 

- Who 'lives' in an area. What things do they use? Are they organised?

 

I agree this was an oddity; most places look like people just moved in. And yet, for example, the musuem where the ghouls live has been occupied since right after the bombs fell.

 

Mind you, there's also the problem of dead bodies laying around for ages outdoors...surely something would scavange them pretty quickly (either people for whatever equipment you didn't pick up or animals for the food).

 

THREE things. The THREE main immersion breakers...

 

3. Everyone except raiders is highly civilised. They slot neatly into roles as traders and waitresses and guards. FFS surely a key point is the breakdown and end of civilisation.

 

- People raised outside vaults won't be able to read, wont have watched TV, and will be very cautious around outsiders

 

Why wouldn't they be able to read? The Little Lamplighters, for example, seem to teach other to read before sending the old-ones out into the wasteland. There are still pre-war books around in other places. I'd think the level of knowledge and the friendliness would change from locale to locale though.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Highly civilized people was present in Fallout 1 & 2 actually, if anything, it was the dreaded Fallout 2 that introduced theme like the de-evolution of wastelanders into tribe, so I don't really see a problem with that.

As oppressing as Fallout 1 & 2 felt, though, you always had the impression that people were struggling to survive, while in Fallout 3 the impression is that people are letting themselve die, with all that disrepair and the fact that there's been virtually no evolution in the Capital Wasteland after the Great War.

Hopefully (and apparently) New Vegas will correct these flaws.

[Walsingham]

1. Magically respawning enemies. I can leave a point, come back five minutes later, and it's as if they've been teleported in.

 

I've never encountered instantly respawning enemies before. If I kill a Talon company group, enter the sewer and leave they're still dead.

 

Even in the metro area, there's a group of respawning super-mutants near the area where the Jefferson Memoria/Rivet City road meets and they never respawn instantly.

 

2. Locations are simply a mess.

 

I agree this was an oddity; most places look like people just moved in. And yet, for example, the musuem where the ghouls live has been occupied since right after the bombs fell.

 

Mind you, there's also the problem of dead bodies laying around for ages outdoors...surely something would scavange them pretty quickly (either people for whatever equipment you didn't pick up or animals for the food).

 

3. Everyone except raiders is highly civilised. They slot neatly into roles as traders and waitresses and guards. FFS surely a key point is the breakdown and end of civilisation.

 

- People raised outside vaults won't be able to read, wont have watched TV, and will be very cautious around outsiders

 

Why wouldn't they be able to read? The Little Lamplighters, for example, seem to teach other to read before sending the old-ones out into the wasteland. There are still pre-war books around in other places. I'd think the level of knowledge and the friendliness would change from locale to locale though.

 

 

1. Talon company don't, but those bear things, and giant radscorpions breed like amoeba. So do raiders and enclave.

2. Agreed, but I think teh patterns in things are more important than continuity errors. The human brain is really extremely good at picking up on patterns. If there isn't something approaching a sensibel pattern to objects then it all feel wrong. I'll hazard that even console teenagers pick up on it without being consciously aware.

3. (the BBC did a dramatised documentary on the after effects of a nuclear strike called Threads. Watch it.) Living above ground after a nuclear strike means absorbing a lot of rads. People die in their mid teens. The old don't pass on skills, since there's no time. Language devolves. 'Fortunately' with no social restrictions or protection the young breed younger. Don't get me started on how creepy it is that little lamplight has only little kids in it yet they're breeding.

[WorstUsernameEver]

there's more than 3 types of currencies: There are caps, poker chips, legion gold, NCR dollars, regular dollars.

 

 

THat's going to require a lot of math to do the conversions....I hate math.....and vans....and vampires.....and the woods.....

 

I've to correct myself again, since this WASN'T posted by the same guy who posted the preview take it with a grain of salt.

Probably the only currencies available are just the three mentioned, which are really more than enough anyway.

[Nemo0071]

(Copy / Paste from the said Beth forum post)

 

3 different types of currency. Caps, NCR dollars, Legion money (it also states CL uses coins as well, for what I'm not sure but probably at the casinos.) You will get better deals depending what kind of currency is used in different parts. (There is also an exchange rate between the three)

 

Mad Max Outfit!

 

C4 explosives that include a detonator (You can also reverse pickpocket C4), Machetes, Razors, a gun that looks similar to a SMG and... Boxing Gloves?!

 

Vault 21 - a vault where all conflicts were decided through gambling.

 

New reload animations that reflect exactly how many bullets you are putting in your gun.

 

Companions have side quest.

 

There is a illusive man named Mr. House that runs the city. He plays a role also in why Vegas wasn't bombed in the great war which you will learn more about as you play through.

 

I apologize in advance for the following statement of overjoy:

 

HELL YEAH ! ! !

 

I mean, seriously, I suck at math, even I love the currency thing. I just like any kind of variety I guess...

 

And of course, I can't wait to reverse-pickpocket-C4 a raider and send him running /waltzing back to his mates...

[Amentep]

1. Talon company don't, but those bear things, and giant radscorpions breed like amoeba. So do raiders and enclave.

 

Never found the raiders or enclave fast to respawn.

 

With Yao-Gui and radscorpions yeah, but outdoors it makes sense that animals might roam into an area you've cleared out so intellectually that's never been a problem.

 

3. (the BBC did a dramatised documentary on the after effects of a nuclear strike called Threads. Watch it.) Living above ground after a nuclear strike means absorbing a lot of rads. People die in their mid teens. The old don't pass on skills, since there's no time. Language devolves. 'Fortunately' with no social restrictions or protection the young breed younger. Don't get me started on how creepy it is that little lamplight has only little kids in it yet they're breeding.

 

Except the Fallout universe has a magical pill that removes all radiation from a person. So any argument about what should happen with radiation is kinda moot.

 

And everytime people come out of a vault into the wasteland they're bringing science, math, reading and writing with them.

 

I wondered about little lamplights population. Its curious.

[WorstUsernameEver]

This is Howard Hughes IRL.

Since the characters has been inspired by this guy I think posting this may help clarify a few things (didn't even know this guy existed 'til a couple of minutes ago, so don't blame for the errors in the summary ).

[Oner]

reverse-pickpocket

Who came up with this euphemism and why isn't he dead yet?

Peter Hines, was it you?!

Plant an item! Plant! Aaaargh!