Another terrorist attack?!!!????

[Bokishi]

I think I am going to take taks' side in this debate. Terrorists do not have a good reason for hating us Americans. Terrorists should all die IMO. But an efficent way to kill them, I am unsure.

 

And PotC, I'd like you to make a really good list on the reasons why we Americans should be hated by terrorists, just to see where you are coming from.

[mkreku]

I think I am going to take taks' side in this debate. Terrorists do not have a good reason for hating us Americans. Terrorists should all die IMO. But an efficent way to kill them, I am unsure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First of all: There's no land called "Terrorland" or "Terroria". It's not a nationality or ideology. Some terrorists attack whale hunting boats (Greenpeace), while some terrorists switch places on soup cans in the supermarket (put the huge brands at the bottom and the unknown brands in the spotlight). Do you really think all terrorists hate America? Do you really believe all terrorists should die? Do you really want to side with taks in this matter?

 

Those terrorists that attack America doesn't hate America for being America. They are seeking vengeance for what the American government is doing to the world. Killing americans is just "collateral damage" as the american media is so fond of calling it.

 

And PotC, I'd like you to make a really good list on the reasons why we Americans should be hated by terrorists, just to see where you are coming from.

 

Please read this: http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa.html

 

It is an informative list of different reasons why so many people resent America.

[Product of the Cosmos]

"And PotC, I'd like you to make a really good list on the reasons why we Americans should be hated by terrorists, just to see where you are coming from."

 

I've already listed quite a bit of our invasions, dictator propping, dictator support, thwarting democracy in other nations, corporate rape of their resources/people, something to keep them under is a dictator's oppresion while we rape their resources with corporate crime.

 

Not to mention giving a bunch of weapons to people who will kill Middle Eastern people with. Like Isreal, or Iran/Iraq to kill each other, etc.

 

We played Saddam and Iraq like the amatuer idiot that he is. And in the process killed millions of people(as result, or direct result of USA action). It's obvious we weren't trying to help out there... For over a decade.. **** like that, is the main reaon why we are so widely hated IMO(least when it comes to terrorism).

 

 

"Not everything is in black & white as Cosmos suggests. The countries we protect have to do with our own interests. You probaly also don't know most of the terrorrists in Iraq aren't Iraqis they came in from other countries because our military didn't seal thier borders good enough."

 

What the hell are you talking about? lol. In what way was my description that you were responding to limited to one side or another? I listed the top 3 reasons I think there are terrorists.

 

"oh, and PoTC... wake up and smell the garbanzos... osama wants control. he, like nearly every other islamic terrorist, wants nothing else but control."

 

Maybe control of their own homeland I don't blame them. I would be a terrorist too if Iraq was the world power, my mother was killed by a Iraqi bomb when they obviously don't have honorable intent. If in their greed they invade and **** up my homeland, and use resources and keep my people in poverty. I would want to blow them up too.

 

If they gave my enemy chemical weapons to kill my family and people because they are 'protecting their interests', then turn around and give my people weapons.. Hell, it gets obvious, they just want us to kill each other. In that case I would revolt and try to kill them. I bet you would too in such oppression.

[Product of the Cosmos]

"What America is tasting is insignificant conpared to what we have tasted for scores of years. Our nation(the Islamic world) has been tasting the humiliation and degradation for more then 80 years. It's sons are killed, it's blood is shed, it's sactuaries are attacked and no one hears and no one heads. Millions of innocent children are being killed as I speak. They are being killed in Iraq without any sins.... To America, I say only a few words to it and it's people. I swear to God, who has elevated the skies without pillars, niether America nor it's people who live in it will dream of security before we live it here in Palestine and not before all the infidel armies leave the land of Muhammed, peace be upon him."

 

-Osama Bin Laden

 

taks, you fit under this catagory IMO:'no one hears and no one heads' if you think they do not have a valid arguement. Of course killing people is ****ed up. But they still have as valid of arguement as anyone.

 

Here are some more famous quotes.

 

 

"oil is much to precious of commodity to be left in the hands of the Arabs."

-Henry Kissinger

 

"Even a dult understands the principle - We need oil."

-Advisor to G. H. Bush, time magazine, 1990

 

 

"This will be a monumental struggle of good versus evil... This crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take a while"

-G. W. Bush

 

 

"If the people were not convinced[that the free world is in mortal danger] it would be impossible to vote the vast sums now being spent to avert this danger. With the support of public opinion, as martialed by the press, we are off to a good start. It is our job - yours and mine - to keep our people convinced that the only way to keep disaster away from our shores is to build up Americas might."

 

-Former GE Chairman of the board Charles Wilson after ebing appointed to some defense position in the white house in the 1950's, talking to the Newspapers Publishers Association.

 

lmao GE's slogan is 'We bring good things to life' LMAO! Like nukes! LOL!

 

"I have seen that we do not intend to free but to subjugate[the Philipines at the time]... And so I am an anti imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land... I have a strong aversion to sending our bright boys out there to fight with a disgraced musket under a polluted flag."

-Mark Twain, 1900

 

"The weakest ch1nk in our armor is American public opinion."

-President Lyndon Johnson, 1968

[Child of Flame]

Eh, perhaps Dubya is smarter than he appears. Hell, I've said myself before that he could just be fooling all of us. But he certainly acts like an idiot for the most part (rather than do press releases, he went bass fishing with whatever the flock that guy's name is on the Outdoors Channel); and he seems to have many, many hidden agendas. Namely OIL. Truth is, we really don't need oil, as was proved by POTC's article about Hemp, but it we started using Hemp instead of Oil, all the corporations would be out of business. No more Chevron, Texaco, Shell, etc. They'd be f*cked. Of course, the Tobacco farmers could grow hemp instead of Tobacco, and that bird would be killed. <shrugs>

 

Brings to mind one of my favorite political cartoons.

 

Dubya: We have approximately 710 reasons for going to war with Iraq.

 

Dubya's Advisor: Erm, sir... <flips sing over, revealing the word 'OIL'.>

 

 

Dubya: Correction, we have approximately ONE reason for going to war with Iraq.

 

 

 

[Phosphor]

Eh, perhaps Dubya is smarter than he appears.  Hell, I've said myself before that he could just be fooling all of us.  But he certainly acts like an idiot for the most part (rather than do press releases, he went bass fishing with whatever the flock that guy's name is on the Outdoors Channel); and he seems to have many, many hidden agendas.

 

Of course he's smarter than he looks. You don't get to be president by being a moron, even if you do have powerful connections.

Bush plays the role of the common man very well to the masses; he speaks in a commoner colloquialism, has a slight southern "homey" accent, and this makes him look approachable and like he has nothing to hide.

The American people don't like their president to seem smart, they think he's hiding something. One critique of Kerry was that he looks like he's thinking too much; this makes people nervous.

People will believe the village idiot though.

[Meshugger]

Eh, perhaps Dubya is smarter than he appears.  Hell, I've said myself before that he could just be fooling all of us.  But he certainly acts like an idiot for the most part (rather than do press releases, he went bass fishing with whatever the flock that guy's name is on the Outdoors Channel); and he seems to have many, many hidden agendas.

 

Of course he's smarter than he looks. You don't get to be president by being a moron, even if you do have powerful connections.

Bush plays the role of the common man very well to the masses; he speaks in a commoner colloquialism, has a slight southern "homey" accent, and this makes him look approachable and like he has nothing to hide.

The American people don't like their president to seem smart, they think he's hiding something. One critique of Kerry was that he looks like he's thinking too much; this makes people nervous.

People will believe the village idiot though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I hope you're joking there, people become nervous of thinking people?

[Phosphor]

Sadly, I'm not.

[Meshugger]

Sadly, I'm not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Then your next president (who ever it becomes) is obliged to put some serious funding to public schools and education in general.

[Cantousent]

Don't insult Phosphor. He's Candian, not American!

[Meshugger]

Don't insult Phosphor.  He's Candian, not American! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Whops

[Phosphor]

That's "Canadian", not Candian. Although John Candy was Canadian, and a follwer of his comedic style may be considered Candian. But I'm not such a person.

[mkreku]

That's "Canadian", not Candian. Although John Candy was Canadian, and a follwer of his comedic style may be considered Candian. But I'm not such a person.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, in that case it's "follower", not follwer.

[Phosphor]

Touche.

 

Nice catch. B)

[Cantousent]

lol. Hey, I liked John Candy.

 

Okay, back on topic, I hope there isn't another terrorist attack also.

[Vault-Tech]

this dosent realy go with the subject but i found a quote from bush that is quite hillarious.

 

1 "i think america is better off now than 4 years ago"

i could argue that.

['JN]

That's "Canadian", not Candian. Although John Candy was Canadian, and a follwer of his comedic style may be considered Candian. But I'm not such a person.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's kind of funny. Ever see Canadian Bacon?

[Phosphor]

An absolute classic. Directed by one Michael Moore, as well.

[taks]

Those terrorists that attack America doesn't hate America for being America. They are seeking vengeance for what the American government is doing to the world. Killing americans is just "collateral damage" as the american media is so fond of calling it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no, that is not true at all... that is their excuse, but not their true motivation. islamic fanaticists want infidels converted or dead. and some probably don't really care about conversion. an infidel is anybody that does not already believe... this is pretty much general knowledge here, mkreku. the only major political differences in the world arena are exactly how to deal with the situation and make them not want us dead.

 

taks

[Product of the Cosmos]

for 'JN. Who was dumbfounded when I said Bush didn't really care to find Bin Laden:

 

"I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."[President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]

 

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...20020313-8.html

[Cantousent]

"Q Mr. President, in your speeches now you rarely talk or mention Osama bin Laden. Why is that? Also, can you tell the American people if you have any more information, if you know if he is dead or alive? Final part -- deep in your heart, don't you truly believe that until you find out if he is dead or alive, you won't really eliminate the threat of -- "

 

"THE PRESIDENT: Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, if he's alive at all. Who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not; we haven't heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is -- really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission.

 

Terror is bigger than one person. And he's just -- he's a person who's now been marginalized. His network, his host government has been destroyed. He's the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match. He is -- as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hide -- if, in fact, he's hiding at all.

 

So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you. I'm more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied; that the strategy is clear; that the coalition is strong; that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahikot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did.

 

And there will be other battles in Afghanistan. There's going to be other struggles like Shahikot, and I'm just as confident about the outcome of those future battles as I was about Shahikot, where our soldiers are performing brilliantly. We're tough, we're strong, they're well-equipped. We have a good strategy. We are showing the world we know how to fight a guerrilla war with conventional means."

 

"Q But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?"

 

"THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.

 

But once we set out the policy and started executing the plan, he became -- we shoved him out more and more on the margins. He has no place to train his al Qaeda killers anymore. And if we -- excuse me for a minute -- and if we find a training camp, we'll take care of it. Either we will or our friends will. That's one of the things -- part of the new phase that's becoming apparent to the American people is that we're working closely with other governments to deny sanctuary, or training, or a place to hide, or a place to raise money.

 

And we've got more work to do. See, that's the thing the American people have got to understand, that we've only been at this six months. This is going to be a long struggle. I keep saying that; I don't know whether you all believe me or not. But time will show you that it's going to take a long time to achieve this objective. And I can assure you, I am not going to blink. And I'm not going to get tired. Because I know what is at stake. And history has called us to action, and I am going to seize this moment for the good of the world, for peace in the world and for freedom.

 

Mike Allen. I'm working my way back, slowly but surely. Michael."

[chemchok]

^That's all a bunch of PR nonesense. The administration lowers the expectation that Osama will be caught or that he's important so the public doesn't care if he's at large. I can promise you that if he was caught tomorrow, Bush would not say "I truly am not that concerned about him."

 

Of course, the more interesting question is what would happen if he was apprehended/killed. If he's killed by American collaborators/soldiers who were trying to apprehend him, his popularity would probably grow even more. If he was captured alive and allowed a trial he would use it as a platform to plead his cause to Arabs across the globe. If he was captured and dumped into Guantanamo Bay, even more people would jump on the "the US is a fascist state" bandwagon.

 

Seems like a no-win situation to me.

[Cantousent]

I believe, at the time that Bush made that statement, we hadn't heard from bin Laden in some time. Folks speculated he might be dead and others disagreed. At about the time of this statement, the SoD was going out of his way to goad bin Laden as well. If I'm not mistaken, soon after, maybe a week or two, bin Laden released a tape.

 

Someone could probably look into the timeline. I'm too lazy.

[Product of the Cosmos]

^That's all a bunch of PR nonesense.  The administration lowers the expectation that Osama will be caught or that he's important so the public doesn't care if he's at large.  I can promise you that if he was caught tomorrow, Bush would not say "I truly am not that concerned about him."

 

Of course, the more interesting question is what would happen if he was apprehended/killed.  If he's killed by American collaborators/soldiers who were trying to apprehend him, his popularity would probably grow even more.  If he was captured alive and allowed a trial he would use it as a platform to plead his cause to Arabs across the globe.  If he was captured and dumped into Guantanamo Bay, even more people would jump on the "the US is a fascist state" bandwagon.

 

Seems like a no-win situation to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

"If he was captured alive and allowed a trial he would use it as a platform to plead his cause to Arabs across the globe."

 

lol. And what does that mean? Plead his cause to Arabs across the globe. lol. That seems a bit racist at first glance... He has already has that chance with Al Jazeera and beyond though... I think the main difference would be Americans hearing what he has to say more closely.

 

How about just seeming competant to the world in capturing who is the 'main name' responsible for 3,000 dead Americans?!

[chemchok]

"If he was captured alive and allowed a trial he would use it as a platform to plead his cause to Arabs across the globe."

 

lol.  And what does that mean?  Plead his cause to Arabs across the globe. lol. That seems a bit racist at first glance...  He has already has that chance with Al Jazeera and beyond though...  I think the main difference would be Americans hearing what he has to say more closely. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's a big difference between releasing a video every once in a while (or more often an audio tape) and being able to broadcast your message consistently every day with a huge amount of news coverage and analysis (and with no doubt of authenticity). And yes, Americans would hear what he has to say, which isn't a bad thing IMO. As for the "racist" statement, alright, plead his case to Muslims, whatever, he is more interested in Arabic muslims than others (and I know, all Arabs are not Muslims, nor are Muslims necessarily terrorists). His message is carefully formulated to play to muslims within the Middle East, I can't see how that can be argued with.

 

How about just seeming competant to the world in capturing who is the 'main name' responsible for 3,000 dead Americans?!

Alright, but what about my points, do you think they're false or not?