Wombat Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 I may sound a hardcore FO fan to a certain people but what I want is simply a game which I can enjoy without feeling patronized. I haven't played games recently, which shows how I feel about the industry itself. "An author can show no greater respect for his public than by never bringing it what it expects, but what he himself thinks right and proper in that stage of his own and others' culture in which for the time he finds himself."
Slowtrain Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 I may sound a hardcore FO fan to a certain people but what I want is simply a game which I can enjoy without feeling patronized. I haven't played games recently, which shows how I feel about the industry itself. "An author can show no greater respect for his public than by never bringing it what it expects, but what he himself thinks right and proper in that stage of his own and others' culture in which for the time he finds himself." I totally agree with this. Nothing great was ever achieved by pandering to what people think they want. It's financially a safer course, however. Until the gaming fad passes and the big money goes elsewhere, we're going to be stuck with the current trends. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Flouride Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 What was wrong with HoW? It was really short. In fact it was that short Black Isle made a free downloadable expansion for it, to make it at least a bit longer. Other than that, it was an okay expansion. Hate the living, love the dead.
Gorth Posted February 20, 2010 Author Posted February 20, 2010 What was wrong with HoW? It was really short. In fact it was that short Black Isle made a free downloadable expansion for it, to make it at least a bit longer. Other than that, it was an okay expansion. I always wondered about that bit, but then I didn't really hang out on forums at the time, I probably missed out on a lot of interesting rage “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Wombat Posted February 20, 2010 Posted February 20, 2010 I totally agree with this. Nothing great was ever achieved by pandering to what people think they want. It's financially a safer course, however. Until the gaming fad passes and the big money goes elsewhere, we're going to be stuck with the current trends. I cannot but feel games are people who are much younger than I am nowadays. If so, I cannot but wonder how the feelings of the designers who are older than thirty years old could be. I personally think NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer made a better use of mythology in the Forgotten Realms compared with other FR based products but I'd like to see RPG outside of FR or typical D&D fantasy. Any medium I still keep in touch feels that it is for older people. I always wondered about that bit, but then I didn't really hang out on forums at the time, I probably missed out on a lot of interesting rage Some "youngsters" may think watching flame wars are fun but such people have no idea about how much of their time they are wasting. When I come across to such a situation, I leave the boards immediately. Well, this is not one of my new customs, though.
Pop Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 Don't know if anybody posted it but MCA wrote a blog post about what he thinks of Fallout 3. In short, he doesn't hate it as much as you do. Perhaps you all should loudly question his judgment and / or faculties. Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality!
GreasyDogMeat Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 It was really short. In fact it was that short Black Isle made a free downloadable expansion for it, to make it at least a bit longer. Other than that, it was an okay expansion. It didn't feel much shorter than Tales of the Sword Coast for BG 1 to me and I don't remember Bioware getting any crap for that. It has been a while since I've played either though.
Tigranes Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 Don't know if anybody posted it but MCA wrote a blog post about what he thinks of Fallout 3. In short, he doesn't hate it as much as you do. Perhaps you all should loudly question his judgment and / or faculties. Perhaps we can move on from this unrealistic fantasy of a black and white world where there is a hivemind of angry FO3 haters? No? Yeah, probably not. That said, you've found out he actually updates the Obsid blog, so awesome. * Yes, barricades. I have never had anything but hate for barricades until this game. They block my progress. **** barricades. But in F3, they are filled with the equivalent of RPG candy - containers are usually embedded in the wreckage, which was a great way to turn something hated into a gaming loot opportunity. I thought this was something that could backfire as well, because unlike in MW or OB, it was harder to tell whether some barricades were impassable - in Washington where it's all convoluted anyway I spent a lot of time trying to climb past several piles of rubble before deciding they cant be. Maybe they could... Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress)
jero cvmi Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 Don't know if anybody posted it but MCA wrote a blog post about what he thinks of Fallout 3. In short, he doesn't hate it as much as you do. Perhaps you all should loudly question his judgment and / or faculties. Judging from the blog post, i think he hates it more than i do. If i had to write down 5 good things about fallout 3, they would be less peripheral, unimportant stuff. Thankfully, i don't have to write good things about fallout 3.
Sannom Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 Don't know if anybody posted it but MCA wrote a blog post about what he thinks of Fallout 3. In short, he doesn't hate it as much as you do. Perhaps you all should loudly question his judgment and / or faculties. The question he answered is so stupid I think Chris had fun just answering in the same stupid way. Those questions scream "Please, say you hate Fallout 3", what do you think he will answer to this
Ausir Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 Even if he hated it, which I'm not saying he does, he obviously wouldn't be able to say so, given his current position. Which is also why, even if he disliked more things, he wouldn't criticize any of the ones that they are not able to improve in FNV, since he would be criticizing his own game. Pillars of Eternity Wiki * The Vault - Fallout Wiki * Wasteland 2 Wiki
Morgoth Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 It's generally always seen as bad behaviour to openly criticise a fellow developer/publisher in this industry. You never know, it could one day backfire on you. Rain makes everything better.
Aram Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 The tiny model house in Minefield not containing anything special. Yeah what the **** was up with that.
cb.spike Posted February 22, 2010 Posted February 22, 2010 Do we know If unkillable NPCs will be there?
Syraxis Posted February 22, 2010 Posted February 22, 2010 Do we know If unkillable NPCs will be there? I hope not . If an important NPC is killed, just think Biff the Understudy
Wombat Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 Don't know if anybody posted it but MCA wrote a blog post about what he thinks of Fallout 3. In short, he doesn't hate it as much as you do. Perhaps you all should loudly question his judgment and / or faculties. Do you mean "me" by you? I really have no idea why you think I need to agree with Avellone even about his possible favorite games while I was just talking of one of the main features in his game design. I, indeed, mentioned Avellone but in the context of role-playing element focused on story development through dialogues. Except this element, there is almost no similarity in the game-play of FO and that of PST and the prologue of IWD2 is most dialogue heavy part in all the series. As for the other game-play element, I don't hate FO3 since I have never played it. In fact, while I am unhappy with the "standardized" content of Oblivion from the world of Morrowind, the melting pot of various cultures, which contains subtle political struggles, I liked the game-play of Oblivion better than that of Morrowind. I enjoyed Thief series, on which Emil Pagliarulo worked, too. I'm fine with different game-plays as long as they feel completed in their own ways. Rather, my initial concern when I first registered to these boards was about the fact that Obsidian hasn't proven to be good at FPS style game-play. For example, I don't think Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines' game-play was good. The game-play there screamed out that it was hurt by PnP rule-set more or less. I don't have a direct experience about how the game-play of FO feels like but, in general, it seems to be accepted as O.K. However, I read enough reviews to figure out that Bethesda reduced the story elements, which made FO3 no deal for me: I didn't like to feel the same way when I played Oblivion. So, if Obsidian is able to achieve the standard game-play from Bethesda and bring back the content of classic FO, it will be able to take me back to the table again. If they are more ambitious, they may sharpen up the content even more but, considering the time they need to spend on modern complex engines, I guess it would be hard to put new experiments in terms of content. In fact, even Avellone mentioned something like it is enough for him if he is best remembered by PST in this industry, which is quite discouraging. Actually, I'm simply repeating old me here: The game play should be fun to the majority while I'd like the world and the story development more interesting. For the game-play works in short term while the content does so in long term. Obsidian need to modernize the game-play to keep the commercial value of their products. Skimming the designers' posts in Bethesda, I've gotten an impression that they are working hard on learning how to tame Embryo. Reading the blog post of Avellone, too, I noticed they are trying to keep the game-play smooth and enjoyable, rather than adding extra features to the established game-play. Personally, I wouldn't mind if FO: NV felt like an expansion as long as the content is solid. The designers may be able to satisfy the majority if the game-play is not frustrating. Perhaps we can move on from this unrealistic fantasy of a black and white world where there is a hivemind of angry FO3 haters? No? Yeah, probably not. Indeed, it's purely unrealistic since it doesn't exist: You were painting my personal opinions with your own image of typical classic FO fans. I guess you spend too much time on browsing these internet boards. To my eyes, these "inter-forum politics" is rather an obstruction for communication. In fact, I find myself more or less similar to the guy who is quoted by Avellone in his blog at that he states his honest onions about games, not concerning any forum politics. I guess you are a student. There is much more in the world than high school cafeteria-ish relationships... Do we know If unkillable NPCs will be there? I hope not . If an important NPC is killed, just think Biff the Understudy This is a pretty classic issue. If killing NPC opens up different paths in terms of the story development, it's interesting but, if it simply brakes a quest...well, it's just a bug.
Lady Evenstar Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 If i had to write down 5 good things about fallout 3, they would be less peripheral, unimportant stuff.Thankfully, i don't have to write good things about fallout 3. I think this post gets at the heart of the conflict between folks who love Bethesda games and those who don't. What is "peripheral, unimportant stuff" to some players is a source of delight to others.
Pop Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 Don't know if anybody posted it but MCA wrote a blog post about what he thinks of Fallout 3. In short, he doesn't hate it as much as you do. Perhaps you all should loudly question his judgment and / or faculties. Do you mean "me" by you? No. Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality!
Diogo Ribeiro Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 So Wasteland had a post-apocalyptic Las Vegas. Fallout: New Vegas is set in Las Vegas. ???? Profit!
jero cvmi Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 If i had to write down 5 good things about fallout 3, they would be less peripheral, unimportant stuff.Thankfully, i don't have to write good things about fallout 3. I think this post gets at the heart of the conflict between folks who love Bethesda games and those who don't. What is "peripheral, unimportant stuff" to some players is a source of delight to others. In principle you are right, but that's not what i meant. A nice perk, a beautiful vista or a funny pop culture reference may be a source of delight for me as well, but it's still peripheral. I meant i would note bigger things as pros of fallout 3. And cons, of course, as i have done to a ridiculus degree here and elsewhere.
Wombat Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 I think this post gets at the heart of the conflict between folks who love Bethesda games and those who don't. What is "peripheral, unimportant stuff" to some players is a source of delight to others. Is this new to you? Taste differs. We can state our opinions about what we like/dislike but the final decision is done by the designers. Rather, if the designers are indecisive about their decisions, I guess the result is more likely to end up with a lukewarm work which doesn't satisfy anybody. Quite many of us have a good picture of games of our likings and, as long as we also keep in mind the size of the market, we can see how futile to argue about our likings. After all, I come here for doing my share of feedbacks and gathering information...rather, I'd say, getting a grasp of which direction the designers are heading.
mkreku Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 The tiny model house in Minefield not containing anything special. Yeah what the **** was up with that. I remember finding that model house and being so intrigued by it. But you needed 100% lockpick to be able to open it, which I did not have at the time, so I actually wrote down the location of it on a piece of paper so I wouldn't forget to go back to it once I hit lockpick that high.. Imagine my utter disappointment when I finally got it open. Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!
HoonDing Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 The designers should have put a Fat Man in that tiny house, just for laughs. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Humodour Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 Dave Maldonado working on it. I miss Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaave.
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