Dragon Age discussion

[Killian Kalthorne]

Supposedly Orsen Scott Card is making a DA comic.

Will it be canon?

Only if there isn't a net.

[Orogun01]

Supposedly Orsen Scott Card is making a DA comic.

Will it be canon?

Only if there isn't a net.

That's Cannon

[Volourn]

Hey, leave my family out of this!

[Maria Caliban]

Supposedly Orsen Scott Card is making a DA comic.

Will it be canon?

 

If it comes out, yes.

[Oner]

Mhairi trailer

Miss Daishi's* little sister! (Not.)

 

*You know, the juggernaut woman who throws you in prison.

[HoonDing]

Will the companions die during the Joining if you didn't complete their loyalty mission?

Edited March 3, 2010 by virumor

[Gromnir]

Supposedly Orsen Scott Card is making a DA comic.

 

am gonna assume a minor spelling error... or not. maybe get george r.r. marten to does a similar comic... or perhaps neal gaiman.

 

comic woulda' been a good idea if released Before origins as it would have introduced fans to some aspects o' the da universe. coulda' been a lower-budget web-comic or somesuch. maybe coulda cut out some o' the tedious game exposition if fans were already familiar with the da universe.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps we loathe d&d alignment. as boo notes, is nothing wrong with philosophical considerations o' the nature o' evil, but the silly d&d x-y axis crap has reduced moral dilemmas to a mechanical process guided by gygax notions. whether you folks realize or not, you is using d&d vernacular to explore notions o' good v. evil... and don't even get us started on law v. chaos.

 

*shudder*

 

'course, as the folks developing these games has also been perverted by gygax, tsr and wotc, is only natural that fans would be similarly robbed o' free will when discussing morality and ethics o' people(s) in fantasy crpgs.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Gromnir

[Oner]

Grom: There was a Penny-Arcade comic on the DA homepage.

[Gromnir]

Grom: There was a Penny-Arcade comic on the DA homepage.

 

yeah... not really what we is talking 'bout.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[RPGmasterBoo]

ps we loathe d&d alignment. as boo notes, is nothing wrong with philosophical considerations o' the nature o' evil, but the silly d&d x-y axis crap has reduced moral dilemmas to a mechanical process guided by gygax notions. whether you folks realize or not, you is using d&d vernacular to explore notions o' good v. evil... and don't even get us started on law v. chaos.

 

*shudder*

 

'course, as the folks developing these games has also been perverted by gygax, tsr and wotc, is only natural that fans would be similarly robbed o' free will when discussing morality and ethics o' people(s) in fantasy crpgs.

 

I'm genuinely surprised that anyone would even consider using DnD's alignment when judging moral issues or evaluating the morality of characters/races.

 

Thankfully while DnD may be one of the most popular PnP systems there are plenty of others in which you can explore these themes in a meaningful manner... instead of them being a contrivance forcing you to find the other robe of the Archmagi

[Pidesco]

That comic with Alistair and Morrigan was dire.

[Gromnir]

That comic with Alistair and Morrigan was dire.

 

dire as synonymous with dismal?

 

as a character, morrigan works well enough as an unrepentant and mercenary b!tch. sure, she may feels friendship or even love for the protagonist, but is no question that she is gonna do what is necessary to achieve her own goals. regrets? maybe. apologies? never. we were expecting morrigan treachery, so we were hardly surprised when she lived up to (down to) our expectations. trying to give morrigan a soul/heart after the fact actually weakens the character in our eyes. crying? bah. gaider is being an apologist for his character... and he not need to apologize. morrigan's character not require a post script to create some lacking pathos. what is so damned wrong with having a morrigan wedded to her plan/goal above and beyond personal bonds o' friendship and loyalty?

 

am actual disappointed with the comic. cheapens the character as written in da:o.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Orogun01]

That comic with Alistair and Morrigan was dire.

Hey, give Irma a break. She was doing those comics before the game release.

[Tigranes]

Geez. Gaider's really going off the deep end, isn't he? Cross-media storytelling is all good but instead of using different mediums to add different elements to his narratives he just makes carbon copies of emo teenage sap romances.

 

re: Morrigan - yeah, she's not the Morrigan in the game by any means, but maybe they wanted to do a different interpretation. That's cool. Pity the said interpretation is generic anime chick #1.

[HoonDing]

Apparently that particular scene would be in the game if Morrigan & a female PC were friends.

 

It seems odd to me... almost another case of a character suddenly acting differently to how (s)he was developed the entire game... like with Alistair after a certain decision during the Landsmeet.

Edited March 3, 2010 by virumor

[Volourn]

Morrigan never betrays the PC. Where is this betrayal? Certainly not in the game.

 

P.S. That comic is so so so emoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. NERDRAGE!!!!!!!

 

 

P.S.S. "like with Alistair after a certain decision during the Landsmeet."

 

Nope. Outside of one iffy decision he makes post landsmeet, his reaction to how the PC betrays him makes perfect sense if you actually pay attention to every aspect of Alistair. And, i say that, not being his biggest fan.

[entrerix]

i cant wait until people stop using the word emo to describe things that arent a dead music genre from the 90's

 

 

then again people still call blink 182 punk and im sure that dead kennedy's fans the world over cringe everytime...

[Oner]

i cant wait until people stop using the word emo to describe things that arent a dead music genre from the 90's

Me neither.

[Gorth]

Outside of one iffy decision he makes post landsmeet...

Like dumping his friends, making a mockery of Duncans death, turning his back on the grey wardens, leaving Ferelden and humanity to a horrible, gruesome death? An iffy one indeed

[Volourn]

"Like dumping his friends,"

 

His friend betrayed him.

 

 

" making a mockery of Duncans death"

 

Depends on point of view. Siding with the man who helped usher in Duncan's death as well as the king who happens to be Alistair's family), is enough.

 

"turning his back on the grey wardens,"

 

The Grey Wardens whoa re siding with the man who decimating the Feralden Grey Wardens including their leader.

 

 

"leaving Ferelden and humanity to a horrible, gruesome death?"

 

I actually that this wa sna iffy decision; but obviously Alisatir was acting on emotion and notn thinkingc learly. OMG Alistair is HUMAN and REACTS to BETRAYAL in a non cool manner.

 

I honestly preferred if he had ignored the PC's 'orders' and challenged the douche head on. Or, in another alternative, he goes his own way to find a way to battle the darkspawn - even him showing upo for the last battle on his own. And, then when the PC approaches him after the battle, he spits on the PC for betraying him, then walking out. PC could either elt him go, or attack (which could elad to others reacting differently to that encounter).

 

But, yeah, it makes near perfect sense on how Alisistair reacts to the landsmeet betrayal. It sure beats the silliones sof him accepting the PC's choice like everything is honky dory and everyone will get along with rainbows and kittens. The PC betrays Alistair and even taunts Alistair so yeah, damn straight he should turn his back on the one who betrayed him.

 

 

Alistair > Betraying Untrustworthy PCs

[Gorth]

I actually that this wa sna iffy decision; but obviously Alisatir was acting on emotion and notn thinkingc learly. OMG Alistair is HUMAN and REACTS to BETRAYAL in a non cool manner.

If he had been "just" human, it would have made a lot of sense. The game does portrait him as dedicated to the grey wardens though, making it a not unreasonable assumption that he values the fight against darkspawn over personal interests.

 

I honestly preferred if he had ignored the PC's 'orders' and challenged the douche head on. Or, in another alternative, he goes his own way to find a way to battle the darkspawn - even him showing upo for the last battle on his own. And, then when the PC approaches him after the battle, he spits on the PC for betraying him, then walking out. PC could either elt him go, or attack (which could elad to others reacting differently to that encounter).

Add to that, letting his choice be influenced whether or not you had dragged him along a "light" or "dark" path through the game. If you played a bad guy, blood would flow at the landsmeet (if you didn't kill/injure Alistair yourself, he would fight Loghain to the death) or if the "light" path, the bloodless, but no less unhappy ending you describe

[~Di]

There was another ending if the PC let Logain live. I happened upon it while replaying the endgame several times, trying to see as many endings as possible. In my case,

my PC was an elf mage who had a romance with Zevran, not Alastair. During Landsmeet, after Alistair had his temper tantrum he declared that although he didn't really want to be king, he was going to take it to rectify the intolerable situation of Logain being allowed to live. Of course Anora spoke up, playing to the crowd about what kind of king Alistair would be. Much arguing and gnashing of royal teeth. My PC said... "er... I thought you were going to be married?"

 

 

Next thing I know

I'm taken to Logain's joining cutscene. Anora informs us that Logain lives, and her "future husband" was upstairs pouting and behaving just like Cailan. I go talk to Alistair, say I don't want this to hurt our friendship. He says basically that it already has. In the epilog, he and Anora were married, but I don't recall any real details about it.

 

 

So it's possible to let Logain live and not have Alistair either

executed by Anora or turn into a roaring drunk who tells anyone who listens that he "used" to be a gray warden.

That said, I hate the entire scene. In my opinion, the Alistair that had been meticulously created to love and respect the gray wardens, who honored the wardens to the point of hero worship, who would even tell the woman he loved that his duty as a gray warden to end the blight came before their own feelings for each other, would suffer such a drastic change in character. He might turn his back on the PC, but would never dishonor the wardens or turn his back on his duty to fight the blight, no matter what sacrifice he had to make to do so. It was a bad design decision for the character they'd created, a true WTF moment that totally jarred the player out of immersion. Since it was so damned obvious that they wanted to make sure there were only two wardens available to kill the archdemon (so that one of them HAD to die if the Dark Promise hadn't been taken), they should have forced Logain and Alistair to fight, and allowed only one of them to survive. That would make sense. The scenario they used did not.

 

In my opinion, of course.

Edited March 4, 2010 by ~Di

[Volourn]

" but would never dishonor the wardens "

 

Except this is exactly what he feels the PC did. He's now disillusioned and feels nothing is worth the sacrifices he's had to make since the one he decided to follow betrayed him by siding with the man who played a huge role in destroying the Feralden Wardens including Alistair's mentor. Makes 100% perfect sense. EVERYBODY has a snapping point. He follows around complaining about your evil acts yet sticking by your side anyways; but the decision to spare Loghain AND bestow the HONOUR of Wardenhood onto him sickens Allistair so much, he's had ENOUGH. Fits his character to a tee. Sure beats him doing whatever the PC demands of him since he is NOT a robot. To expect him to do what the PC wants just because DEMEANS him as a character and a person.

[Orogun01]

" but would never dishonor the wardens "

 

Except this is exactly what he feels the PC did. He's now disillusioned and feels nothing is worth the sacrifices he's had to make since the one he decided to follow betrayed him by siding with the man who played a huge role in destroying the Feralden Wardens including Alistair's mentor. Makes 100% perfect sense. EVERYBODY has a snapping point. He follows around complaining about your evil acts yet sticking by your side anyways; but the decision to spare Loghain AND bestow the HONOUR of Wardenhood onto him sickens Allistair so much, he's had ENOUGH. Fits his character to a tee. Sure beats him doing whatever the PC demands of him since he is NOT a robot. To expect him to do what the PC wants just because DEMEANS him as a character and a person.

The only bad thing about it is how long it took for him to leave.

[~Di]

" but would never dishonor the wardens "

 

Except this is exactly what he feels the PC did. He's now disillusioned and feels nothing is worth the sacrifices he's had to make since the one he decided to follow betrayed him by siding with the man who played a huge role in destroying the Feralden Wardens including Alistair's mentor. Makes 100% perfect sense. EVERYBODY has a snapping point. He follows around complaining about your evil acts yet sticking by your side anyways; but the decision to spare Loghain AND bestow the HONOUR of Wardenhood onto him sickens Allistair so much, he's had ENOUGH. Fits his character to a tee. Sure beats him doing whatever the PC demands of him since he is NOT a robot. To expect him to do what the PC wants just because DEMEANS him as a character and a person.

 

He never complained about my evil acts, because my pc didn't have any evil acts. She was righteous and good, all the way, had 100% approval rating with him since the early part of the game. Had enough? Bah. The first time my PC ever did anything he didn't agree with... which she does at Riordan's request (you know, Riordan, an "honored" gray warden who was apparently DEMEANING the wardens as a whole and Alistair personally by the "vile" suggestion that the wardens actually need people...duh), he throws a freaking tantrum not at Riordan who has requested Logain's joining in the first place, but at the PC who simply agrees that yes, they need more wardens. Alistair then tosses everything he believes in out the window and storms off like a thwarted child. Might have been in character in the game you played, but it sure wasn't in character in the game I played.

 

Which brings up another WTF at this same point in the game. I initially asked Riordan about performing the joining on others to recruit more wardens and was told (A) that Riordan didn't know how to perform the ritual and (B) that archdemon's blood was required anyway, and the warden's supply of archdemon blood had either been destroyed or stolen. Miraculously, these petty problems are magically resolved (we know not how) to fit the writer's need to have either Logain or Alistair removed from the game at that point.

 

Anyway, you can construct whatever motivation you want for Alistair; it is a role-playing game, after all. Me, when I see plot holes and a break in character, I call 'em what they are... to me... and I just move on.

Edited March 4, 2010 by ~Di