Dragon Age Discussion

[Purkake]

Emoticons are so 90s, nowadays we use funny internet slang.

 

amirite?

[Oner]

You not kawai desu purkake-san.

[alanschu]

Still curious what it is about the Dwarves that are specifically similar to Klingon lore. What is it that is unique about the Klingon lore in particular?

 

caste system - check

use political intregues and back stabbing to gain higher levels of status - check

murder/assassination a common way to go up the ranks - check

honor (or at least the perception of such) a huge thing in the society - check

time honored tradtions of combat and arena fighting to prove ones worth - check

the more skilled warrior you are the more you are praised, and get women - check

You have a 'number one' or whatever that guys title is (idential equivlant to klingons from noble houses forget their title however) - check

Oh thats right noble houses who all come together to form the policital body with a king (or klingon high chalancier) - check

While their empire is in decline they are spending all their resources with infighting and backstabbing - check

 

Sounds like you described a good chunk of human history.

 

Given that the evolution of Klingons has always in some way mirrored historical cultures and civilizations (from totalitarian regimes to tribal-esque warrior race), it's not surprising that the source material is similar. The similarities you depicted could just as easily make references to the various Indo-European cultures that employed a Caste system. I'm guessing much of what has influenced the current culture of Klingons, was used to influence the creation of Dragon Age's dwarves.

 

Given the rest of the game sports civilizations that seem inspired by dark ages Europe, it seemed to me that the Dwarves continued the same thing. Caste systems with honor and military acumen being highly valued are common in history. Houses having leaders? Might as well accuse it of ripping off Dune. The Dwarves do seem awfully Harkkonen, now that I think about it. Though perhaps less outright evil.

 

The Klingon culture isn't simply made up. The only good argument you really have is probably the political infighting and arena fighting.

 

 

EDIT: Haha, I swear that I had not seen the other Dune reference prior to posting this.

Edited November 13, 2009 by alanschu

[Purkake]

You not kawai desu purkake-san.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Purkake

[entrerix]

ummm arena fighting was from dune, not klingons

[alanschu]

ummm arena fighting was from dune, not klingons

 

 

Well there you go

 

 

Like the Klingon's themselves, the source inspiration for the Dwarves is probably a hodge podge of a variety of influences.

[Volourn]

Dwarves are not rip offs of klingons. That's plainly hogwash. Alanshu is 100% right. Like pretty much everything, their a mish mash of a bunch of things. Klingons themselves are NOT original. DA dwarves have mnuch more in common with D&D dwarves (which is not surprising). With some drow thrown in. Tons D&D races and culttures are set up the same way. Not to mention a bunch of fantasy cultures. Heck, human politics cna work the same way.

 

This who dwarves = klingons is simply a delusion as any similarities are merely coincidental due to the fact that klingons themselevs are rip offs ( in a good way as i like klingons) of other stuff.

[vault_overseer]

TW is not low fantasy.

 

TW may not be horror enough to be seriously considered dark fantasy, but it's pretty much the most low fantasy crpg there is. We could argue, do you have time?

[Maria Caliban]

TW is not low fantasy.

 

TW may not be horror enough to be seriously considered dark fantasy, but it's pretty much the most low fantasy crpg there is. We could argue, do you have time?

 

Well, the Witcher is not low magic and it's not set in the real world. It has magic, elves and dwarves as regular citizens, and tons of supernatural critters to kill. It's 'dark and gritty' but so is Black Company. I'd consider it far more sword and sorcery or even high (but not epic) fantasy than low fantasy.

[entrerix]

what order did everyone do the major quests in?

 

im doing (based on alanschu's quasi-advice)

 

circle, redtown, denerim-urn, forest, orzammar

 

what did all of you do and would you change the order on your next playthrough?

[Enoch]

what did all of you do and would you change the order on your next playthrough?

I'm just starting out, so plans may change. But my current thinking is to do the Magi, then Elves/Dwarves in one order or another, followed by the Redcliff and wherever that leads. The theory being that: 1) PC is a mage and has connections in the Circle; and 2) the bounty set by Loghain is likely to be less of a threat among the non-humans, so it makes sense to put off dealing with the humans until I have support from the others. I'll probably meta-game in a detour to pick up Shale at some point in there, though.

[TheHarlequin]

Still curious what it is about the Dwarves that are specifically similar to Klingon lore. What is it that is unique about the Klingon lore in particular?

 

caste system - check

use political intregues and back stabbing to gain higher levels of status - check

murder/assassination a common way to go up the ranks - check

honor (or at least the perception of such) a huge thing in the society - check

time honored tradtions of combat and arena fighting to prove ones worth - check

the more skilled warrior you are the more you are praised, and get women - check

You have a 'number one' or whatever that guys title is (idential equivlant to klingons from noble houses forget their title however) - check

Oh thats right noble houses who all come together to form the policital body with a king (or klingon high chalancier) - check

While their empire is in decline they are spending all their resources with infighting and backstabbing - check

 

Sounds like you described a good chunk of human history.

 

Given that the evolution of Klingons has always in some way mirrored historical cultures and civilizations (from totalitarian regimes to tribal-esque warrior race), it's not surprising that the source material is similar. The similarities you depicted could just as easily make references to the various Indo-European cultures that employed a Caste system. I'm guessing much of what has influenced the current culture of Klingons, was used to influence the creation of Dragon Age's dwarves.

 

Given the rest of the game sports civilizations that seem inspired by dark ages Europe, it seemed to me that the Dwarves continued the same thing. Caste systems with honor and military acumen being highly valued are common in history. Houses having leaders? Might as well accuse it of ripping off Dune. The Dwarves do seem awfully Harkkonen, now that I think about it. Though perhaps less outright evil.

 

The Klingon culture isn't simply made up. The only good argument you really have is probably the political infighting and arena fighting.

 

 

EDIT: Haha, I swear that I had not seen the other Dune reference prior to posting this.

 

Note I NEVER said the klingons were 'orginial' nor did I dispute the view there are other references one could use and see simularities of the DA dwarves.

 

However I used klingons as a. Im a geek like that and it was the first 'reference' to come to mind (not excluding or implying there were not possible others) and b. klingons are prob the most modern/recent fictional creation using all these variables thus (that I recall), again, first thing to come to mind. If you really want to know where klingons came from i'd suggest looking at interviews with RDM as I am sure he talked about his inspirations at some point when he designed their culture.

 

None the less I see no one saying I am in error or that is not possible they did, simply that other souces could have been drawn from. And I do not dispute that. However the flip side is no one can claim the klingons wern't either considering the simularities such as I listed.

 

Either case is just as probable is my point. I simply prefer to lean to the klingons source is all.

[TheHarlequin]

what order did everyone do the major quests in?

 

im doing (based on alanschu's quasi-advice)

 

circle, redtown, denerim-urn, forest, orzammar

 

what did all of you do and would you change the order on your next playthrough?

 

If you got dlc do those first, shale and then the warden castle. THEN do magi tower, forest, redcliff/haven and then ozzy.

 

Even though in theory you are suppoded to do them in any order reality is does not work as such, unless you want a lot of headaches and TPW's.

Edited November 13, 2009 by TheHarlequin

[Oner]

*Contains heavy swearing, translate at your own discretion*

Odabasztok el

[Tigranes]

Ugh, all of a sudden my party is deciding to commit suicide. Melee fighters will stand there and not attack anyone even when not on Hold, and when I get mages to cast spells I see the floating text and they move, but no magic is actually cast. Or, Morrigan is ordered to cast shock but won't, will move around, turn away from the enemies then cast shock into the empty air.

 

This better be fixable or the game is going to become unplayable. I'm stuck

unable to defeat Cauthrien in Howe's estate

because, well, I can't hit them.

[TheHarlequin]

Ugh, all of a sudden my party is deciding to commit suicide. Melee fighters will stand there and not attack anyone even when not on Hold, and when I get mages to cast spells I see the floating text and they move, but no magic is actually cast. Or, Morrigan is ordered to cast shock but won't, will move around, turn away from the enemies then cast shock into the empty air.

 

This better be fixable or the game is going to become unplayable. I'm stuck

unable to defeat Cauthrien in Howe's estate

because, well, I can't hit them.

 

Unlike what certain fan boy here say, the party AI needs some serious polish. Sorry to hear of your ills.

[alanschu]

BWAHAHAHAHA

 

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/181432

[entrerix]

@ tigranes: sounds like a bug to me. i assume you tried reloading an earlier save and/or rebooting game/computer

Edited November 13, 2009 by entrerix

[alanschu]

That fight is also a special encounter. What happens when you lose it?

 

Let me know if the problem persists a reload.

[Oner]

BWAHAHAHAHA

 

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/181432

A certain scene in Clerks comes to mind.

[entrerix]

BWAHAHAHAHA

 

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/181432

 

 

thats a new one on me: "i'm a dude and i dont like boobs and i have a girlfriend, please help me bioware"

[Tigranes]

Unlike what certain fan boy here say, the party AI needs some serious polish. Sorry to hear of your ills.

 

I'd rather if you didn't associate my complaint with your unending crusade, actually. IMO the AI is quite good, though it could do some things better.

 

That fight is also a special encounter. What happens when you lose it?

 

Let me know if the problem persists a reload.

 

A normal death, actually, though I'm in the habit of quickloading before the death message comes up, so maybe not. I'm about to go back and try reloading, and also clearing out all the mods, etc. Bioforums suggests that it's usually a toolset / mod related issue.

[Maria Caliban]

what order did everyone do the major quests in?

 

im doing (based on alanschu's quasi-advice)

 

circle, redtown, denerim-urn, forest, orzammar

 

what did all of you do and would you change the order on your next playthrough?

 

I went Kenloch, Redcliffe, Orzimmar, Forest, Sacred Ashes.

 

Next time I'll do Kenloch, Forest, Redcliffe, Sacred Ashes, Orzimmar.

[alanschu]

A normal death, actually, though I'm in the habit of quickloading before the death message comes up, so maybe not. I'm about to go back and try reloading, and also clearing out all the mods, etc. Bioforums suggests that it's usually a toolset / mod related issue.

 

The toolset causing issues is a common complaint from what I can tell. Too bad

 

Which part of the game are you at specifically?

Edited November 13, 2009 by alanschu

[Volourn]

"TW may not be horror enough to be seriously considered dark fantasy, but it's pretty much the most low fantasy crpg there is."

 

It's not low fantasy. Not even close.

 

As for order: I've gone Elf Forest, Mage Tower, Zombie Village, and now am in Denerim.

 

 

The AI is not perfect; but the I is the best seen in any CRPG. Espicially since most CRPGs don't expect you to have your companions do everything. You are supposed to control the party. The AI is easily better than anything by BIO/OBS/INT/TRO/GBG. Case closed. But, it doesn't hold your hand. It isn't dumbed down.

 

The problem above sounds like a bug. Plain, and simple.