Slowtrain Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) I think you can really divide this into two mini-debates (though one is pretty hard to refute, I think): 1) Should a Repair skill be in Fallout games? If so, in what capacity? Sure, if it can be integrated into interactions with the gameworld. That should be the skill's main purpose; the repair weapons/armor part should be secondary. I recognize that it takes time to implement skill interaction with the gameworld though. So if FO:NV is still mostly a combat=based action game, then probably it's a waste of time to do much else but stuff that affects combat. 2) Is Repair valuable in F3? Absolutely. It would be pretty hard to play the game without ever using it, although if you wnated to really chase around after high condition armor and weapons it might be possible. It would be nice if all the repair npcs, with the exception of the upgraded traveling merchants (who usually end up dead anyway), didn't suck so bad at repair. Edited October 5, 2009 by Slowtrain Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
jero cvmi Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 1) Should a Repair skill be in Fallout games? If so, in what capacity? Mildly off-topic, but has anyone played Fallout 2 lootable armor mod? In that mod, repair skill defines what kinds of armor you can scavenge from your enemies. Better repair skill -> better lewt. Also: how about that fallout 3 schematics thingy? i don't remember, did crafting items from schematics involve repair skill? crafting items was kind of fun. i wish there were more everyday makeshift items you could craft, like slingshots and molotov coctails vs. wacky nonsense items like shishkebab.
Slowtrain Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Also: how about that fallout 3 schematics thingy? i don't remember, did crafting items from schematics involve repair skill? crafting items was kind of fun. i wish there were more everyday makeshift items you could craft, like slingshots and molotov coctails vs. wacky nonsense items like shishkebab. The repair skill affected the starting condition of your created item, but not whether you could craft the weapon or not. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Starwars Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 1) Should a Repair skill be in Fallout games? If so, in what capacity? I've never thought it was enormously exciting myself, but I think there is a place for it. I think the way that feels most rewarding is when you can use it to extract unique information from the gameworld, or to solve quests using the skill. I think that's my preference for most skills. 2) Is Repair valuable in F3? I haven't really looked at the numbers, or how well one can do with a very low repair skill. But, I most definetely got a lot of use from it in the game. But again, something that I would've liked in Fallout 3 is having stats and skills influence ways to solve quests and so on. There are quite a few stat checks in the game, but for me personally, they failed to really feel important and instead they were nice as "flavour". This need not be bad (I liked how Storm of Zehir did it, though that's quite a different design of course) but for Fallout I really prefer it when the character you create at the start has a huge impact on how you will see and experience the world. I want to get that feeling in the world of "goddamnit, I really wish I had spent points in *that* skill." I never quite got that in Fallout 3. Listen to my home-made recordings (some original songs, some not): http://www.youtube.c...low=grid&view=0
Syraxis Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) It can be part of "science boy"-oriented builds Resurrecting the science boy path from VB huh? Oh man! My first FO3 play through build was "small guns and science" (science, medicine, repair), until I found out one could get energy weapons early on. The **** bethesda? Edited October 5, 2009 by Syraxis
213374U Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) But in Fallout 3 I had to spend time chasing down spare weapons and armor, for no reason other than to repair the ones I was already using. It was time I wasn't interested in spending on something so tangential to the rpg experience. I would have been quite happy with a rifle and armor that never lost condition and getting on with the parts of the game I enjoyed. It was inconvenient and uninteresting and not really avoidable. Vanilla F3 repair = suckage. However, there are mods that deal with that quite well: they reduce the rate at which items degrade, which is pretty ridiculous in vanilla, and expand repair lists, so you can, for example, repair a Chinese AR with a regular AR. That takes care of the idiocy that is carrying around a hundred guns just for spares. FOOK2 takes it even further, they intended to implement a system that works with generic parts to fix or sell, which you get by stripping down not just typical items, but "wasteland garbage", as well. So, for example, out of a stripped camera you may salvage a lens for use in a laser rifle. That sort of items are also included in vendor lists, so you are much more likely to find a spare servo to fix your power armor, than a whole suit for sale. Don't know how far they got it, but it sounds pretty sweet. Edited October 5, 2009 by 213374U - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Slowtrain Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 But in Fallout 3 I had to spend time chasing down spare weapons and armor, for no reason other than to repair the ones I was already using. It was time I wasn't interested in spending on something so tangential to the rpg experience. I would have been quite happy with a rifle and armor that never lost condition and getting on with the parts of the game I enjoyed. It was inconvenient and uninteresting and not really avoidable. Vanilla F3 repair = suckage. However, there are mods that deal with that quite well: they reduce the rate at which items degrade, which is pretty ridiculous in vanilla, and expand repair lists, so you can, for example, repair a Chinese AR with a regular AR. That takes care of the idiocy that is carrying around a hundred guns just for spares. FOOK2 takes it even further, they intended to implement a system that works with generic parts to fix or sell, which you get by stripping down not just typical items, but "wasteland garbage", as well. So, for example, out of a stripped camera you may salvage a lens for use in a laser rifle. That sort of items are also included in vendor lists, so you are much more likely to find a spare servo to fix your power armor, than a whole suit for sale. Don't know how far they got it, but it sounds pretty sweet. If I play FO3 again, I'll hunt around for some repair mods. Even one that just slows item degradation would be helpful. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
entrerix Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 i use a repair mod that 100% improved the repair system. scrap metal, wonderglue etc can repair stuff, as can variations on the weapon (so chin AR can be repaired by regular AR). things still degrade quickly, but now my character carries spare parts, not spare rifles - much more sensical. that mod came out about a week after the game was released and i cant imagine playing without it. Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Undecaf Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 i use a repair mod that 100% improved the repair system. scrap metal, wonderglue etc can repair stuff, as can variations on the weapon (so chin AR can be repaired by regular AR). things still degrade quickly, but now my character carries spare parts, not spare rifles - much more sensical. I used it too, and I agree it was somewhat more sensical and felt better too, but I didn't like the fact that I was still drowning in repairsupplies (even more than before). Perkele, tiädäksää tuanoini!"It's easier to tolerate idiots if you do not consider them as stupid people, but exceptionally gifted monkeys."
Gizmo Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 (edited) I think repair is certainly useful... A "science boy" build would really be helped [i think], if the game world had things that were props and set-pieces to most (like the crashed virtibird in FO2 ~for example), but were actually fixable if you had the skill. Consider the PC going into a wrecked pawnshop somewhere, mostly junk (maybe a First Aid kit), and old junk lining the walls (that just looks pretty), yet the PC with high Repair (and maybe the robotics Perk), could perhaps see the option to repair an old ABC Warrior (to use a dread reference), and that bot could become a party NPC (with hitponts affected by the PC's skill at repair, and stats affected, by or 'optimized' by the PC's skill at science). This hypothetical example would allow the 90 pound weakling (geek) "Science Boy" to be able to recruit a 1000 pound war machine do his fighting, and be something that he had to repair or risk losing. Edited October 7, 2009 by Gizmo
Kjarista Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 It was inconvenient and uninteresting and not really avoidable. Again, if some people like repairing stuff, then it won't be a problem for them obviously. I would agree with you that detailed repair systems wouldn't likely be fun. I didn't have any problems quickly finding weapons and armor for repair though, perhaps with the exception of a few powerful weapons. It didn't seem like much of a chore to me.
entrerix Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 repair is an example of one of those things that should definitely be improved, but if they had to leave it as it was in order to fit more story and characters in the game then i'd be fine with that decision. mods can easily fix repair issues, not so much character and story and C&C. Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
WDeranged Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 I thought Fallout 3's repair system was pretty decent, being able to break down guns in the same category for parts rather than being restricted to the exact same weapons would have opened it up a bit though, perhaps you could get a repair bonus using identical weapons. I like the idea of beefing up how weapon condition affects damage, It's pretty difficult to perceive much difference between most weapons at 75% and 100% condition.
Gizmo Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 I thought Fallout 3's repair system was pretty decent, being able to break down guns in the same category for parts rather than being restricted to the exact same weapons would have opened it up a bit though, perhaps you could get a repair bonus using identical weapons. I like the idea of beefing up how weapon condition affects damage, It's pretty difficult to perceive much difference between most weapons at 75% and 100% condition. When you think about it... wouldn't the parts you are trying to fix, most likely be the parts damaged on the 2nd weapon as well? ~Like a minigun for example... Those chew up barrels every 100,000 rounds ~less @ higher RPM, yet finding another minigun is most likely finding another spent barrel, and other weapons like sledgehammers and baseball bats can't be fixed for having a duplicate. IMO guns other than the minigun, should not degrade so fast.Melee weapons sure (but have them degrade for being used to block, or hitting landscape objects ~You can't damage a maul no matter how many people you hit with it).
Slowtrain Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 I would prefer it personally if FO:NV went back to the more simplified ES approach of simply having a repair item (such as a toolkit) that you carried around in inventory and clicked on it from time to time to fix your gear. If you wanted to make repair more of a sacrifice, the toolkits could just be really expensive and rare, so you better only use them when you need cause they will eventually run out. But also, as entrerix said: there are more important things that I would rather see upgraded/changed, But, maybe if NV keeps the same system, just slow item degradation down somewhat, just so I don't have to spend quite so much time tracking down spare gear. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
jero cvmi Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Question to the developers: Do you have access to the source of the game engine, or just a higher level interface/library like the GECK?
entrerix Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Question to the developers: Do you have access to the source of the game engine, or just a higher level interface/library like the GECK? they have access to all of it. Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Masterfade Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Question for Obz: We all know Obsidian had incorporated community tweaks & stuff to NWN2 via official patches. Is there any chance you'll be looking into adopting features of some of the more successful Fallout 3 mods for New Vegas? I won't mind seeing some Weapon Mod Kits or some perks from Ultimate Perk Pack, for example
Purkake Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 Wouldn't they have to do it for the console version as well, and as money for it, because of Microsoft's policies? It's not all that easy once you go multi-platform...
Slowtrain Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 One word: No More Level Scaling! Serisly, swapping a world full of mole rats for a world for of Yao Guai is preposterous. If that's where you want go , then just fill the world with Yao Guai from the start and be done with it. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Gorth Posted October 24, 2009 Author Posted October 24, 2009 One word: No More Level Scaling! +1 Level Scaling, huh, yeah What is it good for Absolutely nothing Uh-huh Level Scaling, huh, yeah What is it good for Absolutely nothing Say it again, y'all Level Scaling, huh, good God What is it good for Absolutely nothing Listen to me Ohhh, Level Scaling, I despise Because it means destruction Of innocent lives Level Scaling means tears To thousands of mothers eyes When their sons go to fight And lose their lives I said, Level Scaling, huh Good God, y'all What is it good for Absolutely nothing Say it again Level Scaling, whoa, Lord What is it good for Absolutely nothing Listen to me Level Scaling, it ain't nothing But a heartbreaker Level Scaling, friend only to the undertaker Ooooh, Level Scaling It's an enemy to all mankind The point of Level Scaling blows my mind Level Scaling has caused unrest Within the younger generation Induction then destruction Who wants to die Aaaaah, Level Scaling-huh Good God y'all What is it good for Absolutely nothing Say it, say it, say it Level Scaling, huh What is it good for Absolutely nothing Listen to me Level Scaling, huh, yeah What is it good for Absolutely nothing Uh-huh Level Scaling, huh, yeah What is it good for Absolutely nothing Say it again y'all Level Scaling, huh, good God What is it good for Absolutely nothing Listen to me Level Scaling, it ain't nothing but a heartbreaker Level Scaling, it's got one friend That's the undertaker Ooooh, Level Scaling, has shattered Many a young mans dreams Made him disabled, bitter and mean Life is much to short and precious To spend fighting Level Scalings these days Level Scaling can't give life It can only take it away Ooooh, Level Scaling, huh Good God y'all What is it good for Absolutely nothing Say it again Level Scaling, whoa, Lord What is it good for Absolutely nothing Listen to me Level Scaling, it ain't nothing but a heartbreaker Level Scaling, friend only to the undertaker Peace, love and understanding Tell me, is there no place for them today They say we must fight to keep our freedom But Lord knows there's got to be a better way Ooooooh, Level Scaling, huh Good God y'all What is it good for You tell me Say it, say it, say it, say it Level Scaling, huh Good God y'all What is it good for Stand up and shout it Nothing “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Slowtrain Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Dagon Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 Something tells me that we won't see any news till Video Game Awards
Slowtrain Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 It's all very super sekret. You can understand why. VATS, shotguns, deathclaws, Vegas: It just might change the world. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
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