Too similiar to Mass Effect?

[Sharen the Exile]

Solo missions where instead of 3-man squads.

 

No "Press X for Good, Press Y for Evil."

 

Twice as many HAWT CHIX to sleep with.

 

 

hot chicks are rapidly becoming passe.

Hot guys are in this season or what?

[kreese12]

Okay so maybe I was wrong !

 

It just seemed to me a couple of key elements, such as how you always carry each of your four weapons classes around with you (shotgun, rifles, pistol, sniper) and the look and design of the skill system , seem really Mass Effect to me. Guess the proof will be in the pudding... there was a lot of good points made so for now I guess I rest my case and you guys win .

[Oner]

Okay so maybe I was wrong !

 

It just seemed to me a couple of key elements, such as how you always carry each of your four weapons classes around with you (shotgun, rifles, pistol, sniper) and the look and design of the skill system , seem really Mass Effect to me. Guess the proof will be in the pudding... there was a lot of good points made so for now I guess I rest my case and you guys win .

Submachine gun, not sniper.

[Enoch]

And wasn't there something said to the effect that you had to decide on only 2 weapons to take on each particular mission?

[Matthew Rorie]

And wasn't there something said to the effect that you had to decide on only 2 weapons to take on each particular mission?

 

This is true. Only two weapons can be brought into a mission.

[alanschu]

I think it's fair that there are some similarities to Mass Effect. The way dialogues proceed for one thing.

 

But I don't know if that is necessarily a bad thing.

[Oblarg]

And wasn't there something said to the effect that you had to decide on only 2 weapons to take on each particular mission?

 

This is true. Only two weapons can be brought into a mission.

 

Are there any situations in which you can only bring a pistol, say, meeting someone at a public location?

[alanschu]

It's possible that those types of meetings tend to not be "missions" so to speak. Depends on what he means by mission

[Oner]

How many times did we see Bond go to a party with a mission as an excuse?

[alanschu]

I was thinking that the "going off to meet someone to talk" could be more of a Hub related activity, rather than a specific "mission."

[Sid Nitzerglobin]

After watching all the video I could find on AP, I'm pretty firmly in the "looks like alot of the mechanics are from Mass Effect, but don't think that's necessarily a bad thing" camp.

 

Looks like it's got alot of positive differences going for it as well to me though.

 

Between this, Dragon Age, and Forza 3 it looks like I'll have most of my free time covered from October - December assuming there's no more delays.

 

On topic: I fail to see any semblance with Mass Effect, in fact it makes me wonder if people that compares it that game have played that many crpgs? If anything, it seems to have a lot more in common with VMBL sans the setting/vampire theme.

 

Or is it just because both games runs on the same Unreal engine licensed from the same third part, that people thinks that there are superficial similarities?

 

I've been playing cRPGs pretty avidly since Wizardry and the SSI gold boxes. Based on the available footage I've been able to find so far, I see alot more common elements in AP from ME than VtM:BL or VtM:R personally.

 

The simularity in shooting mechanics probably is attributable to both games being Unreal 3 driven. The dialog mechanic, the ability selection, and the character development seem to be cases of emulating something that seemed to have worked pretty well in ME, IMO.

 

I really have no problem with that. Sounds like the innovation will be in the gestalt of this cinematic approach merged with a slightly more adult aesthetic and hopefully more true role playing options (ie: more freedom and significant consequences in choices and story arcs that aren't quite so much on rails)

 

Just my .02 based upon the gameplay, trailer, dev diary, and interview vids though.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Sid Nitzerglobin

[Nepenthe]

I wanted to say this earlier, but since the thread was on the second page I decided against necro-posting.

 

While some stuff does indeed look similar to mass effect (the skill point assignation screen looks almost hauntingly familiar, some similarity in the dialogue system), there are obvious refinements over ME as well, with better interaction with the environment coming to mind for sure. Hand-to-hand combat etc. add more to the combat (which everybody seems obsessed on calling 'generic' - most shooter I've played have nothing like that mechanic), and I do think that the dialogue stance system combined with the timer improves on the cinematic nature of the conversations...

 

Some of the stuff I've mentioned above is being implemented for ME2 (or at least they have similar aims, the methods might differ), so I'm fairly certain we're going to get a superior gaming experience.

 

And it's going to release on the three main platforms, simultaneously (/me has an Xbox360 Mass Effect skinned, so I can refer to it as the 'Mass Effect Machine' and use the PS3 for everything else).

[Bos_hybrid]

While some stuff does indeed look similar to mass effect (the skill point assignation screen looks almost hauntingly familiar, some similarity in the dialogue system), there are obvious refinements over ME as well, with better interaction with the environment coming to mind for sure. Hand-to-hand combat etc. add more to the combat (which everybody seems obsessed on calling 'generic' - most shooter I've played have nothing like that mechanic), and I do think that the dialogue stance system combined with the timer improves on the cinematic nature of the conversations...

 

I'm not too sure on the dialogue stance method, I think it takes what ME did and further takes away knowledge of what you are going to say. At least with ME you partially knew what was going to come out of Shepards mouth, even if what happened after surprised you.(Asari consort conversation) With AP we know when we select intimidate stance, he's going to do something not so nice, but have no idea what he's going to say. I'm not particularly found of either method really, but I prefer having some knowledge however small, then remain ignorant when selecting a stance. But having said that, AP dialogue stance might surprise me.

[Nepenthe]

While some stuff does indeed look similar to mass effect (the skill point assignation screen looks almost hauntingly familiar, some similarity in the dialogue system), there are obvious refinements over ME as well, with better interaction with the environment coming to mind for sure. Hand-to-hand combat etc. add more to the combat (which everybody seems obsessed on calling 'generic' - most shooter I've played have nothing like that mechanic), and I do think that the dialogue stance system combined with the timer improves on the cinematic nature of the conversations...

 

I'm not too sure on the dialogue stance method, I think it takes what ME did and further takes away knowledge of what you are going to say. At least with ME you partially knew what was going to come out of Shepards mouth, even if what happened after surprised you.(Asari consort conversation) With AP we know when we select intimidate stance, he's going to do something not so nice, but have no idea what he's going to say. I'm not particularly found of either method really, but I prefer having some knowledge however small, then remain ignorant when selecting a stance. But having said that, AP dialogue stance might surprise me.

 

I'll have to see AP in action to make the final call, but frankly, this is probably an improvement over Mass Effect in the "I don't know what my character is going to say" department. I'd rather select a tone over a vague sentence, that can be interpreted in several ways (of course, the placement of the sentences on the wheels was generally a tip-off, but...). Not sure I prefer either approach over the more traditional RPG one, but neither do I have any negative feelings towards it...

[Oner]

Watch the gameplay videos guys. You choose what Mike says (Ex: My terms./Your terms./can't remember) with the tone/stance color coded for your convenience.

[Nepenthe]

Watch the gameplay videos guys. You choose what Mike says (Ex: My terms./Your terms./can't remember) with the tone/stance color coded for your convenience.

 

Oh yeah! While I've watched them religiously, that had indeed slipped my mind. Thanks for the reminder!

[Sid Nitzerglobin]

I'll have to see AP in action to make the final call, but frankly, this is probably an improvement over Mass Effect in the "I don't know what my character is going to say" department. I'd rather select a tone over a vague sentence, that can be interpreted in several ways (of course, the placement of the sentences on the wheels was generally a tip-off, but...). Not sure I prefer either approach over the more traditional RPG one, but neither do I have any negative feelings towards it...

 

I think the dialog wheel is kind of key to the cinematic approach. It looks like its implementation in AP as stances in most situations will make the flow of conversations even tighter. Changing the options available to only stances/tones rather than short sentence summaries (even if some of them point to the same VO or are predictable as to what "alignment" they are associated w/ by their position on the wheel) would take a bit more of the control over the character out of the players hands IMO.

 

The traditional full text selection dialog mechanic certainly allows much more control over the character (and potentially deeper role playing as a result), but also runs counter to a goal of flowing conversations (in addition to being a potential turn off to those w/ an aversion to reading a bunch of text in their games).

 

I'm in the same boat as far as not really having an opinion over what's "better". For me it all comes down to what best serves the type of experience the game is trying to convey . I can appreciate both the cinematic and traditional approaches in RPGs personally.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Sid Nitzerglobin

[Sid Nitzerglobin]

Watch the gameplay videos guys. You choose what Mike says (Ex: My terms./Your terms./can't remember) with the tone/stance color coded for your convenience.

 

Yeah, I noticed that in the conversations w/ Sie, but seemed like the majority of footage used the Suave/Aggressive/Professional/Honest/Friendly/etc. stances from my recollection. It'll be interesting to see how often you get to select summaries vs. stances.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Sid Nitzerglobin

[Maria Caliban]

Does anyone else think Alpha Protocol took way too many design ques from Mass Effect?

 

...

 

I loved Mass Effect but I'd just like to see game companies be brave enough to be a bit more inventive -- judging from Obsidian's past games, it certainly seems they have the ample creative talent to do just that. So why not use it?

 

I think you're completely off the mark. They're both third-person RPGs with guns. That's it. Deus Ex had that, and featured a pregen protagonist who fought terrorists in a semi-modern setting and could go through levels via stealth.

 

That no one compares AP to DE just shows most gamers have a very short memory.

[Sannom]

There are gamers who compares it to Deus Ex, I'm one of them and I clearly remember seeing other gamers who thought so as well. It's like a mix between Deus Ex and the Witcher for me.

[Humodour]

Comparisons with Deus Ex and VtM: Bloodlines seem appropriate.

[mkreku]

The traditional full text selection dialog mechanic certainly allows much more control over the character (and potentially deeper role playing as a result)...

This I strongly disagree with! Usually when I play RPG's, I never get the option to say what I really want to say when using the dialogue choices presented to me. Sure, I can often choose from 3-5 different lines of text, but if none of them suits my role played character, what's the point? I actually think it lessens the role playing and forces me into a role the developer deemed appropriate for the situation.

 

Both stances and dialogue trees are equally restricted, but at least stances are new and "cinematic".

[ARCHxANGELx23]

Stealth.

 

Proper melee combat.

 

Actual choices and consequences not limited to a couple of events.

 

No bad vehicle sections inserted as filler.

 

Better ranged combat, hopefully.

this sounds kind of dumb but i like using lead bullets to kill people which i think how it will be in alpha protocol in mass effect u shot like plasma bullets or something plus u can do awesome fighting moves on bad guys which wasnt on mass effect

[RPGmasterBoo]

Yes this game is silmilar to Mass Effect. However it may pull off what that crap Mass Effect didn't - to be a satisfying role playing game.

 

First, like Maria noted its - a very similar game to Deus Ex, except for the perspective. However I seem to remember that Deus Ex had exploration hubs, (bits you could walk through, talk to people and in general explore) and it seems that Alpha Protocol wont have those or at least every video that I've seen shows either a safe house or a mission in progress. That could be a flaw.

 

Second besides having a stupid plot, the dialog system in ME, as the guy on RPGCodex so well pointed out wasnt original at all. It was just exchanging a rectangle for a circle, and the text was a short version of what the PC spoke. That is all.

Alpha Protocol might turn this into something concrete with its time based responses and three way approach.

I think this is a good trick, that will suit this game, but I wouldn't want to see it replace the regular dialog trees permanently.

 

Third the shooting mechanics in Mass Effect were broken, in fact Max Payne, around 10 years old now played better. I hope Alpha Protocol fixes this, but this is new for Obsidian so we'll see how they manage. I am sceptical about the stiff hand to hand combat though.

 

Fourth, characters and storylines are much better in Obsidian games in general, though its unevenly distributed amongst them with the upper crowd being KOTOR II + MotB and NWN2 + SoZ not coming close.

 

Overall Alpha Protocol has much more potential to be a fresh game than Mass Effect 2, since it apparently turns the movie/action RPG type of game into a real genre of its own. However while I'll enjoy playing this game I would never wish this to be the replacement of traditional RPGs.

[ARCHxANGELx23]

Yes this game is silmilar to Mass Effect. However it may pull off what that crap Mass Effect didn't - to be a satisfying role playing game.

 

First, like Maria noted its - a very similar game to Deus Ex, except for the perspective. However I seem to remember that Deus Ex had exploration hubs, (bits you could walk through, talk to people and in general explore) and it seems that Alpha Protocol wont have those or at least every video that I've seen shows either a safe house or a mission in progress. That could be a flaw.

 

Second besides having a stupid plot, the dialog system in ME, as the guy on RPGCodex so well pointed out wasnt original at all. It was just exchanging a rectangle for a circle, and the text was a short version of what the PC spoke. That is all.

Alpha Protocol might turn this into something concrete with its time based responses and three way approach.

I think this is a good trick, that will suit this game, but I wouldn't want to see it replace the regular dialog trees permanently.

 

Third the shooting mechanics in Mass Effect were broken, in fact Max Payne, around 10 years old now played better. I hope Alpha Protocol fixes this, but this is new for Obsidian so we'll see how they manage. I am sceptical about the stiff hand to hand combat though.

 

Fourth, characters and storylines are much better in Obsidian games in general, though its unevenly distributed amongst them with the upper crowd being KOTOR II + MotB and NWN2 + SoZ not coming close.

 

Overall Alpha Protocol has much more potential to be a fresh game than Mass Effect 2, since it apparently turns the movie/action RPG type of game into a real genre of its own. However while I'll enjoy playing this game I would never wish this to be the replacement of traditional RPGs.

Not trying to argue or anything but i was just wondering how the gunfighting system was broken in ME?