Obsidian making Fallout: New Vegas

[Killian Kalthorne]

Keep it civil.

We are being civil. You should see us when we aren't.

 

*tee hee*

 

[Killian Kalthorne]

damn. twice in one day we agree? the wind has shifted.

 

Sorry, beans.

 

I just gotten to the point that I just want to playt a game to have fun. The details just aren't important to me any more. Maybe I am just getting old.

[TwinkieGorilla]

Sorry, beans.

 

I just gotten to the point that I just want to playt a game to have fun. The details just aren't important to me any more. Maybe I am just getting old.

 

well, i hear ya...but when there's really only one series you give more than a fart in the wind about...the importance of that game living up to your standards is a little heavier.

Edited May 13, 2009 by TwinkieGorilla

[Promethean]

I definitely prefer the strong critical path approach, and I agree that I doubt Obsidian can merge a Planescape/KotOR II esque narrative in a sandbox setting under the time constraints. However, that doesnt mean the story cant be good or meaningful. Lots of well written sidequest covering a variety of themes would be just as good.

[Aristes]

If push comes to shove, I'd be happy with tighter individual stories spread out over the playing field. Yeah, I might want PST in a sandbox for Fallout, but I'd settle for multitudes of quests being better in general and the dialogue being good. I think Obsidian can pull that off.

[Killian Kalthorne]

I expect New Vegas to be somewhere in between NWN2 and SoZ level of story telling with one or two NPCs with Kreia's level of depth. If that is the case I will be a happy camper.

[Gromnir]

Gromnir, I'd suggest playing more of Vampire with the new patch. How far did you get in Santa Moncia? I also suggest playing Malk if you dont care for repeat playthroughs. Its too bad each clan couldnt get dialogue styled after them.

 

Also Bastila? I thought her character ended up shallow and cliched. HK gave a pretty damning indictment of her (and Carth) character in II.

 

I agree with Jolee. He is one of my favorite characters.

 

I found HotU much better than NWN OC or the first expansion.

 

am not disagreeing that bastilla ended shallow... but add some genuine heroic sacrifice and character woulda' been pretty darn good. not require major changes. yeah, she gets the ice-queen shtick, but again, that were part o' the necessary plan in mirroring star wars 4-6.

 

would rather chew broken glass than take another stab at vampire. some ok writing at start, but nothing fantastic and for all the hassles we went through to get through +1 hour o' vampire silliness...

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Killian Kalthorne]

Damnable werewolves. *shudder*

[Jaesun]

Does anyone seriously have a worry over the writing in New Vegas???

 

yeah. obsidan has done 1 quasi-sandbox game: soz. were the writing good?

 

SoZ had no where near the same budget of say Oblivion, so that is a rather bad comparison.

 

The writing in SoZ was far better than what was in Fallout 3.

 

On topic: It made me LOL when people actually entertained the idea that Obsidian may try to add Turned Based combat in NV at the Bethesda forums.

 

:cue Aerosmith Dream On:

[Promethean]

Gromnir, I'd suggest playing more of Vampire with the new patch. How far did you get in Santa Moncia? I also suggest playing Malk if you dont care for repeat playthroughs. Its too bad each clan couldnt get dialogue styled after them.

 

Also Bastila? I thought her character ended up shallow and cliched. HK gave a pretty damning indictment of her (and Carth) character in II.

 

I agree with Jolee. He is one of my favorite characters.

 

I found HotU much better than NWN OC or the first expansion.

 

am not disagreeing that bastilla ended shallow... but add some genuine heroic sacrifice and character woulda' been pretty darn good. not require major changes. yeah, she gets the ice-queen shtick, but again, that were part o' the necessary plan in mirroring star wars 4-6.

 

would rather chew broken glass than take another stab at vampire. some ok writing at start, but nothing fantastic and for all the hassles we went through to get through +1 hour o' vampire silliness...

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

You sure? I went through recently with the 6.0 patch and I didnt have a single crash playing on Vista. Well you are missing out. Mitsoda is very talented as far as vg writers go. I would have like to see his stuff on AP before it got changed. I wonder if he has found a new company to work at now.

 

As for SoZ, I though of it as more Icewind Dale than a Beth game.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Promethean

[Gorgon]

Can't you guys at Obsidian quicken things up a bit, work your people harder hire some more hands. I would like to be able to play this some time next week if possible.

 

Thank you.

[Gromnir]

Does anyone seriously have a worry over the writing in New Vegas???

 

yeah. obsidan has done 1 quasi-sandbox game: soz. were the writing good?

 

SoZ had no where near the same budget of say Oblivion, so that is a rather bad comparison.

 

The writing in SoZ was far better than what was in Fallout 3.

 

On topic: It made me LOL when people actually entertained the idea that Obsidian may try to add Turned Based combat in NV at the Bethesda forums.

 

:cue Aerosmith Dream On:

 

1) Gromnir didn't compare to oblivion

 

2) you think nv is gonna have budget of oblivion?

 

3) the writing in soz was somewhere betwixt forgettable and meh.

 

you ain't one o' those codex guys that is gonna use the malarite druid in the hunting cabin as an example o' great obsidian writing, is you? soz encounters were typical far too brief to develop any character, and those critical path characters (volo and the snake chick) were hardly better than your dad or even 3-dog in fo3. plot in both cases were typical wacky sci-fi/fantasy stuff, so am not really seeing a gulf o' quality tween fo3 and soz.

 

"Well you are missing out."

 

if troika couldn't grab or attention after we sacrificed a couple hours o' our time, we ain't so foolish as to keep at it in hopes the game will improve. am not a big vampire or anne rice fan. if we were, maybe we would take another stab at vm, but we ain't.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 13, 2009 by Gromnir

[Wrath of Dagon]

I hope Obsidian has some interesting ideas they want to implement, not just throw in a bunch of filler quests and call it a day.

[Aram]

Isnt that narrowminded? Like saying movie cant achieve as high as a great book. Things take time. Video games are still pretty new.

Absolutely. Anything can happen. I'm just stating my expectancies of the medium as it exists now. If I was a comic book reader in the 50s I wouldn't expect Sandman or Maus, but they appeared in time. However I think games a particularly difficult medium to tell a good story because the obligation to include things like shooting, driving, and jumping sequences, gameplay itself, is as or more crippling to a storyteller's ability as the obligation to include Michael Bay esque action sequences. In fact, the genre perhaps best suited to being a storytelling medium--the adventure game--is largely dead because gamers look for action and big developers look for people who specialize in tech. RPGs are our second best option, and they seem to be devolving rather than anything.

 

I always thought direct comparisons between the different mediums was pointless, since they all have different ways of doing things.

The difference between good, average, and bad storytelling is pretty universal, but yes, different mediums all have their different ways of telling stories. Watchmen made a great graphic novel and a pretty horrible film. Torment, I think, could only have worked as well as it did as a game. The majesty of Torment came only from the sum of its many tiny parts which were so numerous that they could not have been told unless the reader or player had some control over which part to examine at what time. The part where you meet your three former selves at the end and it all comes together is probably the most ****ing revelatory moment in gaming, and could never have been as significant in novel or movie form.

 

The means are definitely there, or very close, for a fantastic story to be told through an electronic medium, but I don't think studios today are interested in reaching for it. Also, if they did, they'd probably fall short on their first try, the game would tank, and their studio would go bankrupt, and we'd all cry.

[Promethean]

Well asset creation costs need to go down and a bigger medium level indie scene need to arise I think. Then again a lot of the most influencial art in history was done at the behest of someone else.

 

At some point I'm hoping there are a enough people in gaming who want something more than to play virtual sports or shoot dudes.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Promethean

[Hurlshort]

At some point I'm hoping there are a enough people in gaming who want something more than to play virtual sports or shoot dudes.

 

Agreed. This is a huge obstacle. Video games are pretty much stuck in an adolescent stage. They need to grow up a bit.

[TwinkieGorilla]

At some point I'm hoping there are a enough people in gaming who want something more than to play virtual sports or shoot dudes.

 

well...there seem to be just enough of us every once in awhile.

[Aristes]

I'd actually like to see turn based combat. I prefer it in RPGs. I don't think there's a chance in hell, but you never know.

 

I agree completely that RPG writing has not improved and maybe even gone into a downward trend. However, it's like politics. Just because your guy is down and out one year doesn't mean he can't come back. What I'm not going to do is fret over it. All those years, folks were railing for better writing and deeper stories and where has it gone?

 

I'm like Sand. I'm going to argue for specifics within a game, but I'm not going to throw in everything but the kitchen sink. I'm going to pick my battles and argue for things that I really want or that might start out on the road to what I want. The influence we have, if we even have influence in the first place, is only as strong as our arguments. I'm simply not going to squander my influence by repeating failing arguments. That's why I put emphasis on arguing that money can be made doing things I suggest. No matter that song writers can say "screw you" to the record labels, game developers need to find publishers who will buy into their peculiar brand of storytelling. ...And that assumes that games can be the equivalent of movies or books in terms of story-telling.

 

It's odd, but I've always just kind of thought of Aram as some gun nut who only cared about ballistics, but lately his ideas regarding different types of media and storytelling seem spot on to me.

[Gfted1]

It's odd, but I've always just kind of thought of Aram as some gun nut who only cared about ballistics, but lately his ideas regarding different types of media and storytelling seem spot on to me.

 

 

He's a pretty good author too if he ever feels like putting up his work again.

[Aram]

oh god. That thing I wrote on the old board was so bad.

[Gfted1]

Heh, I was digging it. Did you ever finish it?

[Aram]

Badly written, at least. I had not yet learned the art of brevity. If you write more than one sentence describing a gun in a story, you need to try again. If you spend more than a page, you need to seek medical help.

 

It did get finished, but in its current form it must never see the light of day.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Lets keep the FalloutNV threads civil and lets cease the bashing of other companies especially those who have a working relationship with Obsidian. Keep it civil, keep the company bashing to yourselves. Posting at a company forum is a privilege not a right. If you can't be civil don't post. If you can't be civil and post any way, well I guess we will take the next step from there won't we?

 

Read the Forum Guidelines and follow them.

[mkreku]

Keep it civil.

Then get us out of the monkey cage and we'll abide.

[entrerix]

thanks for posting that deathspank interview, that was an interesting read

 

sometimes its easy to forget that good games are coming out all the time, just none of them happen to be dialogue heavy turn based rpgs.

 

world of goo was one of the best games I've played in years, thanks in large part to its weirdly rich yet minimalist narrative, I have high hopes for the future of gaming

 

I also really like the politics analogy, how many years did it take before the liberals got back on top of the political world? 8 years? hopefully it doesnt take that long for really truly great dialogue and story to come back to the forefront.

 

I will once again (i know i'm a bit of a broken record) make my citizen kane/ there will be blood comparison - sooner or later we will have epic artistic games with deep characters and thought provoking events coming out alongside whizbang blockbusters.

 

I think we're still about 5-10 years away, maybe more. costs are still going way up, but the market is growing too, and eventually publishers will recognize the niche of gamers who want artistic games (just like big studio's sometimes publish small art movies that have shots at oscar nominations for increased skril factor and bragging rights) and they will start publishing a slow but steady stream of very high quality, but lower budget games that are the equivelents of films like american history x, memento, or closer.

 

dont get me wrong, im not saying we're ever going to have Closer: The Interactive Drama Game About Morality, Love, Lying, and Humanity. But we'll have artistic games that explore those themes while still being fun to actually play (because its a game - which means you play it)

 

I'm just talking about how those types of movies can come out and be successful enough that producers will make more of them even though there are no pirates or carribeans anywhere in sight.

 

Whats going to need to happen is the larger group of gamers (lets face it - the fairly young) will grow up and their tastes will mature (as is already happening) and will ask "where the hell is my game that challenges me emotionally and intellectually", and the market will respond and say "here you go, a game where you play a man on death row reliving his life and all the horrible choices he has made and you have a chance to redeem yourself in your mind before going to the chair where you will be killed but maybe even though the world still hates you you've learned to live with your choices and if god exists maybe you'll be judged more fairly but we're leaving it open-ended and there is lots of Choice and Consequence so you can talk about it with your friends at work the next day and everyone will feel special and fuzzy for having experienced such a great game"

 

One thing that we may need to have happen first for this niche to develope is believe it or not... an oscars! for games! one that brings attention to those games that are actually emotionally and intellectually challenging (the oscars blow chunks usually, but they still meet this goal a lot of the time). Once those games get attention so more people play them then people will start looking for them more and voila the publishers want a piece of the "high caliber oscar game pie" - just like every major studio wants to have at least one "prestige" film to release in november/december.

 

one cool thing about having an oscars of games where the prestige titles actually get attention instead of Explosion 4: The Explosioning, is that it will become "cool" to play the prestige games so you can say you did, just like everyone's parents all want to make sure they see enough of the best picture nominees that when someone asks which one they liked they can say "oh i say that slumboy millions movie and it was so sad, i really hope they give an oscar to that sweet little boy who was in the movie - didnt he do such a great job!"

 

anyway i've gone on too long but seriously - I am very confident that in 10 or so years, this stuff is going to be happening, for better or for worse. (and just imagine the fallout title that could be released then! ceasars legion and mormons would be just the tip of the iceberg!)

Edited May 13, 2009 by entrerix