Obsidian making Fallout: New Vegas

[Hurlshort]

I let them re-take Drassen and then I go back in nice and stealthy. That counter-attack is crazy.

 

Might be time to start a new game, after I finish Arcanum...

[Jaesun]

+1 to the "please god, no more majick clothing" suggestion.

 

This please. The sunglasses in FO2 were fine, but my gawd. make. it. stop.

[J.E. Sawyer]

RE: the existence of electronics in a post-nuclear war world:

 

It's true that nuclear blasts generate severe EMPs, and that EMPs can very easily destroy anything with transistors. One interesting thing about Cold War research is that it maintained interest in vacuum tubes for one compelling reason: unlike transistors, they are highly resistant to EMPs. In a world where the shadow of the Cold War never retreated, vacuum tube technology would continue to be used, particularly if the applications were military/government in nature. In our own world, for example, Viktor Belenko's MiG-25 had no transistors in it, only vacuum tubes. Of course, vacuum tubes also fit in nicely with the general aesthetics of the Fallout universe.

[aries101]

I agree that the visual presentation is vital for a game, play or movie; it is part of the way the story is told or set to stage, so to speak.

 

I rather like FO3's visual presentation; however VATS seems to be broken, imo. (I hope the 1.5 patch fixed it?)

 

Obsidian needs to, I think, set up some sort of trade routes between different settlements or town in Fallout: New Vegas - to at least make sure that the illusion of a future set (more than?) 200 years after the war...

[Gizmo]

Funnily? There IS nothing else. One of the major weaknesses in Fallout/Fallout 2. You can't explore anything but the places populated by humans! The overland map is useless because it contains nothing but time wasting as you sit and watch the dot creep around the populated zones, interspersed with unbalanced random encounters.

How is that a weakness? In Fallout you play a man ~or woman, in a hurry; Doodling around in abandoned ruins is the waste of time (and is likely out of character).

 

This is another one of these blatantly unconsidered criticisms against Fallout 3 only because it is Fallout 3. Both games have the same flaw, only one is more detailed and gets hammered for it.

Fallout 3 [bethesda] brought this upon itself, with the decision to depict the world in that level of detail; Previous Fallouts were a bit more abstracted and the mind of the player seamlessly filled in the gaps... but F3 puts it all in 'yer face and its plain to see that things are not right in the wastes; So yeah... It gets hammered for more useless and flawed detail.

 

 

It's true that nuclear blasts generate severe EMPs, and that EMPs can very easily destroy anything with transistors. One interesting thing about Cold War research is that it maintained interest in vacuum tubes for one compelling reason: unlike transistors, they are highly resistant to EMPs. In a world where the shadow of the Cold War never retreated, vacuum tube technology would continue to be used, particularly if the applications were military/government in nature. In our own world, for example, Viktor Belenko's MiG-25 had no transistors in it, only vacuum tubes. Of course, vacuum tubes also fit in nicely with the general aesthetics of the Fallout universe.

IIRC, NASA has some computer systems in (of for use in) orbit, that are positively ancient (like 486's ~perhaps pentium pro's? ~I'm not sure of the platform... might not be x86 even); They are kept in service because they almost never ~ever crash, and because they are easier to hardened against radiation effects. Needless to say, I doubt they are running Windows

I can see the VAC-tube systems remaining in use in the Fallout world, and some still being functional all these years since.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Gizmo

[Aristes]

Someone said earlier:

 

"People need to just accept that Fallout 3 was a success. Forget changes in the POV. Forget changes in the game engine. Forget changes in the combat system. Expecting Obsidian to change many of the main factors in that success is unrealistic and IMHO a waste of time to discuss."

 

I don't see why the success of the previous title means that nothing can be done to modify or enhance any one of these things. Obsidian might not take the time to do a lot with any of them, but it has to have something more than just a new story to be anything more than just an expansion pack. Don't get me wrong, I'd love an expansion pack, but there is certainly room to work with any of these ideas. VATS won't get the nerfbat that folks suspect unless Obsidian does something about the VATS perks in the game. I don't see why anything is off the table, except for POV. I don't expect major changes in the engine, but modifications aren't out of the question.

 

As for the computer terminals and buildings and bears, oh my! I just have to laugh. Really.

 

You know, I also noticed the buildings. I noticed the lack of vegitation. I thougth the radiated water idea was silly. I hate the VATS slow mo effect. I was surprised to find lots of edible food all around. I... well... you get the picture.

 

So what? I had a great time playing the game. I enjoyed many many hours of exploration. Yeah, there were a lot of ghouls out in that Red Racer(?) factory. Statistically, all those Chinese infiltrators should not have been turned into ghouls, right? I wish I had an icon for shaking my head, chuckling.

 

Yeah, I know, suspend disbelief, don't hoist it over a chasm. I know, the science and realism and yada yada. I'm going to quote a post made by another member on these boards.

 

three points:

 

1) immersion... sucks.

 

is great if you can get "immersion", but immersion in and of itself is a highly personalized gestalt of myriad gameplay and story elements. an element in fo3 that kills immersion for you may be bearable in Widget Frenzy, or some other such game. can't find 10 people that has same exact notions as to what is necessary for immersion in any given game, much less find some kinda Truth that might be applied to all games... or even all crpgs.

 

2) unlimited ammo in fo3 changes tactics not at all... or so little as to be meaningless.

 

fast travel makes weighted ammo near meaningless. developers no doubt realize that with fast travel and weighted ammo you simply has folks taking ridiculous number o' fast trips back to megaton or tenpenny or wherever else you got your 1007 stashed. developers no doubt realize that all that weighted ammo would accomplish is some general increase in tedium for most players. such aspects, like required eating, has near universal been dropped from game development. sure, is a balance act for developers... 'cause what is tedious for Gromnir may be immersive for Diogo, but end result is that such stuff likes weighted caps and ammo, things that not genuine add to tactics of fo3 for any player with 2 neurons to rub together, is probable gonna get dropped.

 

3) flinstones

 

am still surprised by how many folks not see humor o' the fallout setting. is like flinstones. stegosauruses AND tyrannosauruses rex in same period? those dinosaurs not exist together... much less co-exist with mastadons and humans. my goodness, how can the writers o' the flinstones show face in public? fo is funny. is satirical and comic. sure, is dark and gritty too, but setting itself is some hodge-podge of b-movie 1950s sci-fi shtick. argue flinstones. is maybe not surprising that people who is most passionate about fo, is least capable in grasping the Ha Ha!

 

am recalling when we first saw Kill Bill in theatre. Gromnir and friend were the only folks laughing in the entire theatre... is like we were the only folks who recognized that movie were so intentional over-the-top as to funny. perhaps everybody else watching the film were hardcore Tarentino fans.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

A good case in point is that, while I agree with this post, I'm not sure I agree about ammo weight and eating. However, the difference is that I won't be angry if there's no ammo weight. I won't be angry whether they force us to eat or not. In fact, I'm more likely to be angry if the design becomes overly burdensome to the player. I don't want to face starvation if I don't eat every five minutes of real time.

 

Ultimately, I don't think successful game design is for the connoisseur. Or, to put it another way, it's for the connoisseur, but the target audience is made up of folks who, while they might like a gourmet meal at a 5 star restaurant, can enjoy a hot dog at the ball park.

 

Overlooking the small things in order to enjoy what the game is not a bad thing.

 

As far as the standing buildings, I noticed them and found them curious the very first time I entered the wasteland. If Obsidian does something different, more 'realistic,' I'll be happy. ...But if they don't, I won't let that one little nagging thing destroy my experience.

[Promethean]

Funnily? There IS nothing else. One of the major weaknesses in Fallout/Fallout 2. You can't explore anything but the places populated by humans! The overland map is useless because it contains nothing but time wasting as you sit and watch the dot creep around the populated zones, interspersed with unbalanced random encounters.

How is that a weakness? In Fallout you play a man ~or woman, in a hurry; Doodling around in abandoned ruins is the waste of time (and is likely out of character).

 

This is another one of these blatantly unconsidered criticisms against Fallout 3 only because it is Fallout 3. Both games have the same flaw, only one is more detailed and gets hammered for it.

Fallout 3 [bethesda] brought this upon itself, with the decision to depict the world in that level of detail; Previous Fallouts were a bit more abstracted and the mind of the player seamlessly filled in the gaps... but F3 puts it all in 'yer face and its plain to see that things are not right in the wastes; So yeah... It gets hammered for more useless and flawed detail.

 

 

It's true that nuclear blasts generate severe EMPs, and that EMPs can very easily destroy anything with transistors. One interesting thing about Cold War research is that it maintained interest in vacuum tubes for one compelling reason: unlike transistors, they are highly resistant to EMPs. In a world where the shadow of the Cold War never retreated, vacuum tube technology would continue to be used, particularly if the applications were military/government in nature. In our own world, for example, Viktor Belenko's MiG-25 had no transistors in it, only vacuum tubes. Of course, vacuum tubes also fit in nicely with the general aesthetics of the Fallout universe.

IIRC, NASA has some computer systems in (of for use in) orbit, that are positively ancient (like 486's ~perhaps pentium pro's? ~I'm not sure of the platform... might not be x86 even); They are kept in service because they almost never ~ever crash, and because they are easier to hardened against radiation effects. Needless to say, I doubt they are running Windows

I can see the VAC-tube systems remaining in use in the Fallout world, and some still being functional all these years since.

 

True but the power infrastructure and generators would have long since deteriorated, and all the loose particles and neglect would reek havoc on the terminals.

[Pop]

I'm just going to assume, without having waded through the endless bitching, that nobody has mentioned this yet. Geoff Keighley is looking forward to a game at E3 with a ""megaton" powerup" and a lot of people are speculating that he's talking about F:NV. But I don't think he is, since Fallout was never the kind of game you got powerups in.

 

I'm actually thinking Duke Nukem with this.

[Gizmo]

True but the power infrastructure and generators would have long since deteriorated, and all the loose particles and neglect would reek havoc on the terminals.

It would have been a touch of style for them to have had a socket in place for protectron energy cells to operate the ancient terminals.

 

 

I'm actually thinking Duke Nukem with this.

I think its really close. (did anyone here see the in-game video last year? ~not the trailers, actual gameplay.) Edited May 5, 2009 by Gizmo

[cronicler]

Aristes: It is the details that bug us. As it stands now a radscorpion needs 2+ clips of assault riffle ammo emptied on it to be killed.

Why not put in different calibers like real life then? 5.56 light weight, man stopping but just tickles the heavy armored foes. 7.62; heavy as hell but can harm man size or armored no problem. .50 caliber or .303 or .308 or Casull... Very heavy very slow rate of fire very hard to control after fist shot. And kills anything.

Also the game did not have "ANY" restrictions on the player and that grew boring after a while. Sure running back to your stash for bullets every other minute would be silly but carrying 5000+ bullets, 2000+ energy cells, 1000+ rockets gets out of control too. I know people hate real life examples but your average assistant heavy weapon: missile launcher crew carries about 5 or 7 RPG reloads at most. Sure this is a game but come on, can you imagine how much space 1000 rockets would take up? 20 rockets maybe as this is a game but 1000? and no I didn't really use heavy weapons and since I hunted around a lot they sort of got piled up I guess. I can accept that we shouldn't go as restrictive as RL but going too far in the other direction also distorts the gaming experience.

 

Also on another note: Damage and HPs:

I am aware that as an FPS game, the player is going to soak a lot of damage in the game and/but call me weird I like my characters not to be gods. My Immortality should come from my armors instead of my huge pool of HP, Those raiders with puny guns should have trouble against my combat armor or these mutants should uselessly bathe me in lead as My PA shrugs them off and I kill them. I guess it is too far fetched to wish for a low hp / high damage reduction system but here is my wish

 

BTW Check this old thread at NMA, especially Rosh's explanations on fallout time line's electronics and optics.

 

I had always envisioned Pipboy as a somewhat big laptopish thing that you carried on your back and you had the **** Tracy like watch as the manual input port coupled with an extra screen...

Edit: Stupid spell checker d*i*c*k Tracy, Detective Tracy dammit.

Edited May 5, 2009 by cronicler

[Purkake]

Woah, I though the "Crazy NMA people" thing was just a joke. Some of you are pretty out there...

 

Also let's not get our expectations too high, hype ruins everything.

[cronicler]

Err.. Could you explain that a bit, And please remember that the linked discussion if from 3 years ago when all we could do was modding the 2nd game and going over the released design documents for the games at the Vault.

Edited May 5, 2009 by cronicler

[Purkake]

Err.. Could you explain that a bit, And please remember that the linked discussion if from 3 years ago when all we could do was modding the 2nd game and going over the released design documents for the games at the Vault.

 

All the talk about bullet calibers, effects of nuclear fallout and other realistic stuff. Fallout has never really been about that.

[Tagaziel]

Err.. Could you explain that a bit, And please remember that the linked discussion if from 3 years ago when all we could do was modding the 2nd game and going over the released design documents for the games at the Vault.

 

All the talk about bullet calibers, effects of nuclear fallout and other realistic stuff. Fallout has never really been about that.

 

Then what was it about? Riding on a horse slaying bad people? Wait, that's fantasy according to Toad Hubbard.

[GreasyDogMeat]

Yeah, Fallout has always been uber realistic with super mutants, radscorpions... that play chess, a talking plant (shudder).

[cronicler]

*Insert Evil Laughter in the lines of "Har Har Har Har!" *

 

Actually those bullet calibers were taken directly from another pre-historic title called Jagged Alliance 2

I haven't even started going gun nutty over you yet. Sure I would love to have a crafting system that allows you to craft your own generic rifle with selected calibers and attachments (Picanny rails and basic modern AR frames would be rare I think, so its back to guns made from lead water pipes and fitted with "somethings" as shoulder stocks. ) but that would be streching things to demand from devs :=). If they can just put in the Dr and alternate ammos into the hard-coded game files I can mod the rest in

 

Edit: Guys please don't start the realistic vs consistent in itself debate again. It has some basic rules like no transistors only vacuum tubes for normal and optical for cutting edge technology. Radiation acts as a poison and can cause mutations. there are anti poison, i mean anti radiation drugs that can make you well. F.E.V. makes things stronger and smarter (if it works ) Among these rules it usually stays consistent if not really realistic.

 

We should be arguing to get a coherent whole instead of fragmented pieces left scattered on the playing field

Edited May 5, 2009 by cronicler

[Tagaziel]

Yeah, Fallout has always been uber realistic with super mutants, radscorpions... that play chess, a talking plant (shudder).

 

Versimilitude.

[Purkake]

Then what was it about? Riding on a horse slaying bad people? Wait, that's fantasy according to Toad Hubbard.

 

It was about survival mixed in with (darkish) humor about 50s funny and optimistic vision of the future.

 

*Insert Evil Laughter in the lines of "Har Har Har Har!" *

 

Actually those bullet calibers were taken directly from another pre-historic title called Jagged Alliance 2

I haven't even started going gun nutty over you yet. Sure I would love to have a crafting system that allows you to craft your own generic rifle with selected calibers and attachments (Picanny rails and basic modern AR frames would be rare I think) but that would be streching things to demand from devs :=). If they can just put in the Dr and alternate ammos into the hard-coded game files I can mod the rest in

 

I love JA2 (especially with 1.13), but those are two totally different games. Fallout is first and foremost an RPG while JA was first and foremost a squad-based tactical strategy game.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Purkake

[Tagaziel]

And how does that make discussing the game world in depth impossible?

[GreasyDogMeat]

Yeah, Fallout has always been uber realistic with super mutants, radscorpions... that play chess, a talking plant (shudder).

 

Versimilitude.

 

I found all the little jokes in F2 FAR more distracting than the numerous computers, food items & lack of vegetation in F3. So what if Fallout 2's world may have felt a bit more real if every other character and scenario is bat**** crazy.

[Purkake]

And how does that make discussing the game world in depth impossible?

 

I'm just saying that it was never meant to be taken as seriously as you apparently are taking it. The Fallout world has always been tongue in cheek with all the crazy laser weapons, 50s super mutants and well-pressed jumpsuits.

[cronicler]

Ay Ay Ayy!

 

Look GDM, despite looking like the guys who uphold the great standards of ages past to stop the tide of change, We did and we do bash Fallout 2 too. That game was just a collection of: Consolidated, Corrected and Refined Game engine from fallout one, injected with 1 years worth of creative products from the BIS. The whole game was basically a giant expansion/stuff/quest pack. The parts of it did not fit. It leaked like a sleeve. Like fallout 3 its saving grace was the amount of things it contained.

 

We don't deny these points. we just argue / want to influence the new game to be better than the 1998 stuff in areas like stories, sandbox and all.

[Purkake]

Ay Ay Ayy!

 

Look GDM, despite looking like the guys who uphold the great standards of ages past to stop the tide of change, We did and we do bash Fallout 2 too. That game was just a collection of: Consolidated, Corrected and Refined Game engine from fallout one, injected with 1 years worth of creative products from the BIS. The whole game was basically a giant expansion/stuff/quest pack. The parts of it did not fit. It leaked like a sleeve. Like fallout 3 its saving grace was the amount of things it contained.

 

We don't deny these points. we just argue / want to influence the new game to be better than the 1998 stuff in areas like stories, sandbox and all.

 

I'm all for better stories and characters, but I don't think having realistic weapon calibers or damage would add anything to the game.

 

Also "It leaked like a sleeve"? That's a funny mental image...

 

EDIT: Are you a hivemind as well?

Edited May 5, 2009 by Purkake

[Slowtrain]

If the game remains so combat heavy, I would not mind at all if they went the 1.13 route and seriously raised the bar on the type and complexity of weaponry.

 

 

Combat is such a huge part of the game, almost as much as Jag 2.

 

Currently, all the combat stuff is too cartoony to be interesting. Its amusing in places, but that's about it.

 

FOr me, personally.

[cronicler]

Realistic calibers and damages are just some minor wants of my own tbh. I tried to implement them as a mod but the game is hard-coded in such a way that you can't make weapons use alternate ammos (like birdshot, buckshot, Slugs for shotguns) or ammos with different effects. Also the crafting sysem is harcoded in such a way that you can't really craft weapons that are flagged as "sold by vendor" and other weird restrictions. and so on.

 

Anyway the detailed guns etc are for the gun nuts' or people from bear's pit's tastes. I just want to see the possibility to mod them into the game become real by tweaking the improvements Obsidian might make in crafting and weapon types.