Recent Isareli military action in Gaza

[Trenitay]

3 hour ceasefire today so palestine could get food. When it ended Hamas fired Some rockets into Israel and to nobody's great suprise Israel responded.

[Trenitay]

What do you mean there are no reporters there? I was just Watching the news and there was a reporter there.

[Wrath of Dagon]

The UN official said there was no Hamas inside the school. Local residents confirmed Hamas was firing from the area. They were questioned by telephone and also there are reporters in Gaza, Palestinian freelancers for one thing.

[Volourn]

"Where are you getting this, is this a new development,and who is reporting it. There aren't any journalist inside Gaza except Hamas media and a smattering of 'independents'. Mostly people with video cameras looking to make a buck."

 

From the original story link that I read about this mess with the school.

[Hiro Protagonist]

If Hamas are firing rockets in a house/building next to a school, and when Israel targets that house/building, then it's reasonable to believe there are going to be school children walking by and will probably be killed, even if the school doesn't get hit. Why would Hamas make themselves a target right next to a school?

[Aram]

"Madness."

[Dark_Raven]

and with any mad animal you put it down. Down, down, down.

[Calax]

I find it interesting that the American mindeset towards Israel is always "they're doing what they have to in response to terrorism" when other sources report that Israel is actually using tools of terror to try and keep Palestinians in check. In particular I've seen clips of senators from both sides saying "America would do the same thing if San Diego was hit with rockets from Tijuana." or something similar. But I personally think that if America was oppressing somebody as much as the Israeli's seem to be oppressing the Palestinians for simply existing, the ACLU and a heap of similar groups would be protesting and ultimately the public opinion would be neutral or against military intervention (and probably more anti oppression) and if the government did mount a response similar in scale to Israels, well the politicians wouldn't be able to do that because it'd be political suicide except against a VERY obvious enemy.

[Aram]

America will never be able to sympathize with the plight of the Palestinians chiefly because they, like many middle eastern states, have been forever linked with terrorism during a generation in which terrorism has been declared the number one arch nemesis of all things good and honorable. They have been linked to it part by actual terrorism and part by propaganda, part by white politicians who tell us it's this way, and part by religious leaders on the other side who have made themselves look like Doctor Doom in their own bloody media. It's complete and utter madness. There's no way to see a right answer in any of this mess, much less a side to root for, and frankly I've given up. People like Yrkoon and Yuusha, by the way, do absolutely nothing to influence anyone's opinion and for a while Yrkoon's insane, terrorism-endorsing rants actually completely biased my way of thinking the opposite way he intended for years.

 

I really can't state enough how big an ass that guy was (is, wherever he is).

 

The biggest problem is that the Palestinians, if they do hold the short end of the stick--and they problaby do--, have frankly no chance of getting sympathy they way the situation is currently presented to us, and people like Yrkoon and Yuusha are even less help than blubbery anuses like Limbaugh or any of the fox news lineup. Yeah, they're that bad.

[Aristes]

Someone lobbing missiles into civilian population centers in the US would be an overt act of war. The US has sent troops into Mexico as a result of criminal activity from across the border. If a terrorist group did to the US what Hamas has done to Israel, there is very little doubt that we would respond. Yes, the ACLU and other similar groups would protest, but we'd still do it. We would have every right to do so. After all, whatever folks say about our involvement with Iraq, the mass of the country, including Democrats, backed our move on Afghanistan. Hate to say it bro, but you're all wrong.

[Calax]

Someone lobbing missiles into civilian population centers in the US would be an overt act of war. The US has sent troops into Mexico as a result of criminal activity from across the border. If a terrorist group did to the US what Hamas has done to Israel, there is very little doubt that we would respond. Yes, the ACLU and other similar groups would protest, but we'd still do it. We would have every right to do so. After all, whatever folks say about our involvement with Iraq, the mass of the country, including Democrats, backed our move on Afghanistan. Hate to say it bro, but you're all wrong.

I guess the thing I was trying to point out was that the psudo Palestinians in my analogue wouldn't need to go to violent lengths to get themselves recognized in this day and age because if America Oppresses somebody the American public will usually find themselves on the sides of the oppressed because it's ingrained in our childhood that NOBODY should be oppressed in any way shape or form. It's easier for America to disconnect with other countries and their oppression because it's not an every day thing that constantly niggles at your conscience. Sure there are groups that focus on the plight of various oppressed cultures (free tibet, and I bet there was a pro-black south africa group years ago), but usually they are ignored by the general populance. Israel is not ignored but Americans practically view Israel as a sort of sibling in terms of nationality. Israel uses this to great advantage and is able to practically get away with murder because 70ish years ago the Jews were under threat of genocide by a very unambiguously evil person.

 

Sympathy for the Jewish as a people is IMHO being force fed to students in America during history lessons. We're taught that Genocide is a bad thing, but the only really well known versions of this are the American Indian tribes, and the Jewish people. Thus in public schools we are taught that because they've been through so much hardship, and are the "last remnants", they should be allowed to make their own rules. Heck, Within the past couple of years (06 I think) I heard about a archeologist finding a possible evolutionary link about the first peoples in north america, he excavated it and tried to study it to figure it out, but was blocked when the Indian tribe that used to dwell in the spot where the skeleton was found, filed a lawsuit claiming that the guy was part of their tribe and thus they were going to rebury him in a traditional manner.

 

Now I'm not a racist man, but I do find that impeding scientific progress because you think your ancestor's of 100 generations ago bones surfaced and had to be reburied within a religion that he probably never dreamed of is stupid. Yes I know I'm committing an internet sin by not going out and finding a link to the news story but it can be hard to find these stories when you search in generalizations. Anyway, Israel is only allowed to get away with being a racist state because of the "Awww poor Jews. Hitler tried to kill them" mentality that Americans are taught in history class. IIRC Israel is also dependent on US arms deals to even survive (might be old information).

 

The only way Israel will be held to the same standard as any other nation of the world, is when the US stops being the parent country who's so happy about their little child that can walk talk and be a strong man that they just want more. I'm not trying to say that Jews and Native Americans are bad people, but I'm also trying to refute that they are inherently good because they were almost exterminated by attempted empires. Near Extermination shouldn't give a group the power to make their own state wherever and whenever they want. I mean attempted murder victims don't have their own cabal that runs around setting up a city for the victims where anyone who upsets their delicate psyche's is lynched.

 

I donno, I haven't seen many Israeli citizens talking normally or abnormally on TV or the internet. The only one I can remember off the top of my head was a member of the military showing off a tank for a list of the top 10 tanks in the world. The woman who was doing the demonstration/explanation of the tank struck me as very smug, as if she was showing the world that Israeli's were smarter and more innovative than the rest of the world. Yes the tank was a good tank, but It also had draw backs to it (it was HUGE in size and wouldn't be good for anything except Urban and Desert environs because of it's size) but the Demonstrator thought it was gods gift to tanks.

 

anyway enough ranting.

[Humodour]

If Hamas are firing rockets in a house/building next to a school, and when Israel targets that house/building, then it's reasonable to believe there are going to be school children walking by and will probably be killed, even if the school doesn't get hit. Why would Hamas make themselves a target right next to a school?

 

It's a common terrorist tactic in the Middle East to fire from or near hospitals, schools and churches so that the enemy either a) won't fight back, or b) you can cry bloody murder when it does, to help your propaganda war.

 

On another note, Turkey's ministers just unofficially said they would be sending a peacekeeping force to Gaza to stop Hamas. That's probably the first bright idea I've heard about the Israel-Palestine situation in a long while (Turkey is a non-Western 98% Muslim country, but lives next to, or in, Europe, and is a stable democracy - a perfect third party).

 

I'd like to see the look on Arab and Iranian faces when Hamas starts trying to murder Turkish soldiers, too.

[Gorgon]

I heard about a archeologist finding a possible evolutionary link about the first peoples in north america, he excavated it and tried to study it to figure it out, but was blocked when the Indian tribe that used to dwell in the spot where the skeleton was found, filed a lawsuit claiming that the guy was part of their tribe and thus they were going to rebury him in a traditional manner.

Yes, there was some suggestion of an explanation of the American Indian heritage as regards the evolution of the human species. On the other hand I can appreciate that the Indians think the bones of their forefathers belong in the ground. Maybe I'm just sentimental. In any case the researchers got a good chunk of the data they were looking for before they had to return the bones.

[Walsingham]

If Hamas are firing rockets in a house/building next to a school, and when Israel targets that house/building, then it's reasonable to believe there are going to be school children walking by and will probably be killed, even if the school doesn't get hit. Why would Hamas make themselves a target right next to a school?

 

Why would devout Muslims fire from a mosque, knowing that the mosque could be targetted and destroyed? Because they regard such destruction as a bonus in their propaganda. Hell, every newspaper had the kid casualties in it over here. Revolutionaries, man, terrorists. They're as bad as religious fanatics. Oh, wait, these terrorists ARE religious fanatics.

[Wrath of Dagon]

The Palestinians are not being oppressed, at least not by Israel. They'd be doing fine if they were willing to negotiate peace with Israel. The problem is Hamas, they're oppressed by Hamas .

Other West Bank residents have a more personal stake. Taysir Barakat, owner of Ramallah's Ziryab restaurant, was born in Gaza's Jebaliya refugee camp and recalls many of Gaza's streets from his childhood. He still has five siblings and many other relatives in Gaza.

 

Barakat spends much of the day on the phone.

 

"The distance makes it more painful that we are living safe, good lives here while we know what it's like there," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090108/ap_on_...JhI66olgx0LewgF

 

Now why are they living safe, good lives? Because they're not currently attacking Israel.

Edited January 8, 2009 by Wrath of Dagon

[Wrath of Dagon]

I'd like to see the look on Arab and Iranian faces when Hamas starts trying to murder Turkish soldiers, too.

Why not, an Islamist terrorist just killed 40 Muslim pilgrims the other day in Iraq and 14 children in Afghanistan, where was the Muslim's world outrage then? Also Iran hates Turkey, and I don't think they're that popular with Arabs either after centuries of rule over them. Anyway, I don't think anything will be done without Hamas consent.

[Walsingham]

I should add that it's not like i epxect the Palestinians to enjoy being boxed in as they are. I just think that, given the fact that violent struggle seems to merely validate Israeli reaction, a non-violent struggle would pay greater dividends. But the fact is that there's a violent terrocracy functioning as the government of Palestine now, and it ain't going to change.

[Yuusha]

I see none of you guys took the Red Pill.

 

[Gfted1]

Analysis: Lebanese rockets raise fear of 2nd front

 

Jan 8, 10:25 AM (ET)

 

By MATTI FRIEDMAN

 

NAHARIYA, Israel (AP) - Residents of this northern Israeli town awoke Thursday to one of their country's worst nightmares: Rockets from Lebanon, and the possibility of a second front in a battle that has raged for two weeks in Gaza.

 

No armed group claimed responsibility for the two Katyusha rockets that lightly injured two Israelis. But the most likely suspects were small Palestinian factions operating in south Lebanon and known to possess Katyushas.

 

The Lebanese militant group Hezbollah, which fought a 34-day war with Israel in 2006, denied it was behind the attack. But Hezbollah has been suspected in the past by Israel and its opponents in Lebanon of using allied radical groups to irritate Israel with a lower risk of retaliation.

 

Quiet returned to the border after a brief retaliation by Israeli artillery. But the point had been made: Israel may be tied up in an offensive in the Gaza Strip in the south aimed at halting rocket fire from Hamas, but millions more Israelis are vulnerable to rockets from Lebanon to the north of its border.

 

 

Israel now faces threats on two of its borders from Islamic organizations with close ties to Iran. Hamas rockets threaten about 1 million Israelis in the south out of a population of 7 million, and Israel's military believes that the rockets in the Hezbollah's arsenal can hit most of the remaining 6 million.

 

"We're all a bit traumatized at the moment," said Sarit Arieli, 44, who awoke to the sound of the rocket's impact in the border town of Nahariya and was standing outside the nursing home it hit several hours later. But she added, "I think we're stronger than them."

 

The rockets were fired from territory under Hezbollah's de facto control. But Hezbollah - which ignited the devastating war in the summer of 2006 that left swaths of Lebanon in ruins - has said it does not want to drag the country into another conflict.

 

Backed by Iran and Syria, Hezbollah likely wants to avoid damaging its newfound standing as a credible player on Lebanon's political stage. After showing its military strength against Israel in 2006 and then again in May 2008 against its Lebanese rivals - when it took control of large parts of Beirut by force - Hezbollah is now a partner in Lebanon's government with veto power over all decisions.

 

Its leaders have been making do with fiery speeches.

 

One of the small radical groups in Lebanon allied with Hezbollah, the Syrian-backed Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command, had warned it might open other fronts against Israel if the Gaza offensive continues.

 

Its officials refused to deny or confirm they were behind the rocket attack. But spokesman Anwar Raja in Syria seemed to voice support, telling the AP it was "a natural outcome ... of the Israeli aggression."

 

Lebanon has the most to lose from a new war, having only recently begun recovering from the ravages of the last one. Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora said Thursday the rocket fire "is the work of parties who stand to lose from the continued stability in Lebanon."

 

Israel, too, does not appear to be eager for a second fight.

 

"Even though we have the ability to respond with great force, the response needs to be carefully considered and responsible," Cabinet minister Meir Sheetrit told Army Radio. "We don't need to play into their hands."

[Humodour]

ISRAELI women are required to do national service - and are being called up for operations in Gaza. Here are some of the girls in action.

 

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/gall...5010140,00.html

 

I don't know about the rest of Israeli girls, but if they're as beautiful as their counterparts in the military... man, EVERY SINGLE female Israeli soldier I've seen has been smoking hot.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Israel is unlikely to respond in Lebanon unless rocket fire becomes sustained. Then it's likely to become a bloodbath the likes of which haven't been seen as yet. Hezbollah would be wise to consider their moves very carefully.

[Morgoth]

ISRAELI women are required to do national service - and are being called up for operations in Gaza. Here are some of the girls in action.

 

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/gall...5010140,00.html

 

I don't know about the rest of Israeli girls, but if they're as beautiful as their counterparts in the military... man, EVERY SINGLE female Israeli soldier I've seen has been smoking hot.

I'm not sure if these are actual soldiers, or only models put into uniforms for a nice photoshooting. And if they're actual soldiers, then I'd like to know if they're in the infantry on the front, or desk writers for commando HQ.

Either way, some look okay-ish, some are actually ugly. But hey, different tastes and all...

Edited January 8, 2009 by Morgoth

[Wrath of Dagon]

They're actual soldiers, see this thread: http://www.wargamer.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=133056

 

I don't think Israel normally allows women into combat, although I found out not so long ago that US does.

[Morgoth]

Heh, why not.... Nice pictures.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

They're actual soldiers, see this thread: http://www.wargamer.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=133056

 

The "wargamer.com forums" are a credible source?!?