Kaftan Barlast Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I BLAME ZE JEWZ!! But semi-seriously, given the extremely small size of Israel, the place gets a disproportionate amount of publicity. Israel 22 072 km2 -the worls tinyest country Iraq 438 917 km2 -19 times bigger Sweden 449 964 -unanimously considered so small thats its insignificant Its a rubbish country, so stop writing about it. And if the Israelians are so inept that they cant keep order in gaza, a city so small it could fit in a handbag, they should just admit defeat and bugger off. I hear Iowa is lovey this time of year. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I like the fact that Mexico has overtaken Iraq in violent deaths, but no-one in the media seems terribly fussed, "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 What we need is a UNFOR squad in robot suits, not 'shoot me I'm in blue helmets' to patrol the world's hotspots. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 "Yeah right Volly, then let's kill ALL PALESTINIAN people, because ya know, they deserve it and all." Yeah, because that's exactly what I said. Oh yeah, only not. R00fles! DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rostere Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I do consider myself a liberal, at least in most things, and I firmly believe that a nation has the right to defend itself from aggression from another power by any means it has in its arsenal. Hamas was attacking Israel. It does not matter if they were lobbing one rocket a week or 100 rockets an hour, they were attacking Israel. By rights, Israel has every right to fight back by any means necessary to eliminate Hamas as a threat. If that means pulverizing Hamas held territory till nothing larger than a pebble stands then so be it. If the people of Hamas didn't want Israel to attack them maybe they shouldn't have lobbed those rockets in the first place. The question is not about which course of action you feel values, morals and ethics permit you to follow, but how the problem should be solved. Regardless of what you have the right to do, do you really think bombing Gaza is the best solution? Personally, I don't think a Palestinian air strike victim would just sit down and say that now that his family is dead and his home destroyed, he forgives every injustice he thinks the Israelis are behind. That person would be more likely to be eager to fight back. Which basically shows the futility of the primitive "retaliation" response that will only lead to more bloodshed. As usual liberals display an awesome inability for logical reasoning. I'd rather you stayed away from ad hominem arguments. By the way, I do not identify myself with what I think you mean with "liberal", and I fail to see what leads you to believe I would be one, if "liberal" isn't just a derogatory word you use for people with an opinion differing from your own. You were talking about dealing with children, and I answered in that context, now you completely change the subject to something else. I did not. The children of today are potentially soldiers of tomorrow and considering the scope of this conflict, they are definitely relevant to our discussion. And the issue is not just casualties, the issue is the whole Israeli population within the rockets' reach being terrorized daily. How would Sweden respond if Stockholm came under daily rocket attack? Did the grand hypocrites think that through? You're right, the violence must stop, and it will stop as soon as Hamas quits firing rockets at Israel. Edit: And in case you're not following the news, Hamas rockets are getting longer range and more powerful. Is Israel supposed to wait until they have the same missiles as Hezbollah, so in the next outbreak they'll lose 140 people or more? The whole Israeli population are not within the rockets' reach, while on the other hand the entire Gaza strip is within reach for Israeli aircraft and artillery. I can't really relate to Stockholm being under rocket fire without a larger context, the solution for the problem would of course be different depending on the reason for the attacks. Oh, and FYI if I wanted personal safety I'd choose living in Ashkelon over Gaza any day of the week. "Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian Kalthorne Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 The question is not about which course of action you feel values, morals and ethics permit you to follow, but how the problem should be solved. Regardless of what you have the right to do, do you really think bombing Gaza is the best solution? Personally, I don't think a Palestinian air strike victim would just sit down and say that now that his family is dead and his home destroyed, he forgives every injustice he thinks the Israelis are behind. That person would be more likely to be eager to fight back. Which basically shows the futility of the primitive "retaliation" response that will only lead to more bloodshed. What about the Israelis who are in the path of Hamas rockets? Should they just let Hamas attack them without being punished? Hamas attacked Israel. Israel is simply defending itself from future attacks with minimal loss of personal on their side. Why should they sacrifice the lives of their soldiers when they can kill with a push of a button, and destroy their enemies. Certainly this will lead to more bloodshed, but there is no other recourse. Don't start a fight you can't finish and Hamas started this fight, not Israel. If the other nations of the world are smart they will let Israel finish this conflict once and for all. "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Wouldnt it be awesome if like someone all serious came preaching into this thread and one of us would be totally like "You're a Jew." and he'd be like WTF?! and cry and get us all banned. Sorry, I went to the bathrrom and forgot what the rest of my argument was about. I think it was something along the line of; since the israel-vs-arabs situation is unsolveable, what people should do is to try and minimize death and suffering. The right thing to do would be to blow up the tunnels Hamas is using to bring rockets into gaza, not to blast the general population with artillery, hoping that atleast one or two of the hundred people you end up killing/crippling is a badguy. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Shut up Cartman Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I once had a history teacher that said that the anti Israel groups in the area won't stop attacking because that would cause the eye of the world to move away and thus they would be forgotten (and thus lose leverage on their opponents diplomatically). Probably one of the few ways to stop the violence would be to make Jerusalem an independent city and have one ethnic group to the north and the other to the south, but that'll never happen because everyone is soft on the jews because OMG they were ethnically cleansed 70 bloody years ago. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Not only political suicide, but actual murder. Remember Yitzhak Rabin. Too many people are dead set on continuing this mess in perpetuity. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I did not. The children of today are potentially soldiers of tomorrow and considering the scope of this conflict, they are definitely relevant to our discussion. The children might be relevant, but you completely changed your argument in the middle. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julianw Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 There are seriously less people in that region than my elementary school in China. Just move half of them somewhere as far as possible already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hildegard Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 If Israel starts a wide ground incursion into Gaza...will Hamas have the balls to use Fajr-3 to hit Dimona? Hmmm I really hope they don't because that would mean 4000 new movies and series out of Hollywood how poor and innocent Jews are suffering... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 The holocaust doesn't excuse anything any longer, but there have never been 4000 movies excusing anything because of the Holocaust either. I can't think of a single one. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian Kalthorne Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 There are no good guys in this mess, but that does not change the fact that the Hamas started this and knowing they lack the ability to finish it. "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rostere Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 What about the Israelis who are in the path of Hamas rockets? Should they just let Hamas attack them without being punished? Hamas attacked Israel. Israel is simply defending itself from future attacks with minimal loss of personal on their side. Why should they sacrifice the lives of their soldiers when they can kill with a push of a button, and destroy their enemies. Certainly this will lead to more bloodshed, but there is no other recourse. Don't start a fight you can't finish and Hamas started this fight, not Israel. If the other nations of the world are smart they will let Israel finish this conflict once and for all. So you are suggesting a genocide then? Should Israel kill even more people than they already do? "Why should they sacrifice the lives of their soldiers when they can kill with a push of a button, and destroy their enemies." Seriously, that sentence scares me. Did you watch "Dr. Strangelove" recently? If you did not, you should. In case someone punches you in the face, do you proceed to (after careful consideration of what will bring the best future to you) hit that person back? If you are insulted, do you always feel obliged to return an insult? I hope you realize human beings can't behave that way. "Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 There are seriously less people in that region than my elementary school in China. Just move half of them somewhere as far as possible already. Thats actually doable, we could move the entire arab population of israel in less than a month with a few dozen buses and lorries. But they would have to go somewhere they cant cause such a fuss, which rules out most arab countries. Somalia maybe? Its sunni and theres no one around to blow up. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuusha Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Insanity... Proportionality is obviously a foreign concept to the Israelis. As the F-16s carry out their missions of death, the message to the world is that Israel will continue to live by the sword, as it has done for the past six decades, rather than risk the concessions and compromises which peace would require. By radicalizing the Palestinians, and by arousing great anger in the Arab and Muslim world, this savage war rules out the possibility of Israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) "I really hope they don't because that would mean 4000 new movies and series out of Hollywood how poor and innocent Jews are suffering..." Yeah, just like those 'poor and innocent Palestinians' shtick. Well.. the poor is right. "This war was launched precisely because Hamas has recently shown signs of moderation." Yeah, launching rockets when there is a ceasefire agreement has they have been doing for MONTHS is a sure sign of moderation. L0L Of course, hardly anyone says a thing about it until Isreal starts to fight back. "Insanity... Proportionality is obviously a foreign concept to the Israelis." Yeah, because wars are won simply by fighting on even grounds. The allies should ahve done that. I guess the US shouldn't have used the hi tech they have versus Iraq. Or Russia shouldn't have used their overwhelming forces against Georgia because it isn't 'fair'. How about that war when multiple Muslim countries went to war with tiny Isreal? Yeah, that WAS fair. I doubt you'd complain if the entire Muslim ME attacked Isreal at the same time and wiped them out. Stop crying about 'unfairness'. "As it stands now, according to the UN, 76 per cent of the population of 1.5 million in Gaza is now in need of urgent humanitarian assistance. But apparently the sick-ass government of Israeli decided to let the people of Gaza die slowly by intercepting humanitarian aid ships in international waters. In short: **** the terrorist state of Israel!!!" Blame Hamas. They are a huge part of Palestine's govenrment and are failing their people. And, the UN is baised against Isreal hence why the Un didn't cry when Hamas was firing rockets at Isreal. Only when isreral fought back is when people started crying. Isreal isn't perfect, and have done their share of garbage but you painting them like Satans is no better than some people who paint all Palestinians as non innocent. *cough* Hades *cough* As for terrorist states, that would be Palestine who doens't even have a standing army and rely on terrorist groups to do its fighting. Hamas fighters are NOT loyal to Palestine; they're loyal to Hamas. Same with Fatah's fighters. It is also why they fight each other. But, hey, we know Yuusha's opinion. Isreal should be wiped out. Just like Hamas' stated goal is. But, yeah, Hamas is moderate. L0L Only time Hamas wants peace with isreal is when they need to regroup hence why when the Isreali offensive began, Hamas was not interested in a ceasefire. NOW, they wnat to take ceasefire. Why? Because, they're being crippled and need a chance to regroup so they cna start anothe rround of rockets a year from now. P.S. You say Isreal doesn't want peace. That's funny considering that they have multiple peace treaties with multiple neighbours, and haven't broken those treaties. And, those other countries don't liek isreal either. hamas doesn't want peace. They wnat Isreal not to exist. This is a fact, and is Hamas' own words. Edited January 2, 2009 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian Kalthorne Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 So you are suggesting a genocide then? Should Israel kill even more people than they already do? "Why should they sacrifice the lives of their soldiers when they can kill with a push of a button, and destroy their enemies." Seriously, that sentence scares me. Did you watch "Dr. Strangelove" recently? If you did not, you should. In case someone punches you in the face, do you proceed to (after careful consideration of what will bring the best future to you) hit that person back? If you are insulted, do you always feel obliged to return an insult? I hope you realize human beings can't behave that way. I live by the virtue of "Do unto others as they do unto you." I keep to myself, mind my own business and never start a fight, but if someone gets in my face I do my best to finish it. As I said, there are no good guys in this conflict but Israel has the right to defend itself by whatever means it deems fit. If Hamas didn't want hundreds dead within their borders maybe they shouldn't have fired those rockets. "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuusha Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 @Volourn: Lemme try to simplify things for you. A guy killed your, say, wife. You responded by killing him, his elderly parents, his wife, his 3 children and the rest of his relatives. Proportional? What I meant by moderation, is that hamas no longer adhered to its 1987 charter, which called for the destruction of Israel, but would support the creation of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders -- provided this solution was approved by the Palestinian people in a referendum. Hamas had offered to end all rocket attacks on Israel and other military operations, including arms smuggling into Gaza. In exchange, it demanded that Israel cease all assassinations, arrests and other military activity in the Gaza Strip, and ease the shipments of supplies into and out of the strip. It was Jimmy carter had a hand in this and that's precisely the reason why he was treated very poorly by the Israelis on his last visit. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and senior ministers refused to meet him. The Shin Beth, Israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 You are spreading misinformation. Hamas remains completely committed to the total destruction of Israel, as is their boss Iran. Everything else is just a fantasy. Not only won't they negotiate a peace, they won't even extend the ceasefire. And the Hamas terrorists were killed because they were digging a tunnel to carry out an attack inside Israel. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) "It wants to destroy Hamas, not include it in any peace process." Absolutely. And, they cna't be blamed. Again, Hamas' stated goal is the total destruction of Isreal so any negotiation of peace by Hamas is a lie as has been evidenced repeatedly. Hamas: We want peace. Isreal: ok. Both & UN: *negotiate a ceasefire treaty* Most of the World: YAY!!! *few months pass as Hamas rebuilds from the last Isreali offensive* Hamas: suicide bombs/missle attacks Isreal World: *silent* Isreal: *after months of taking* Counter attacks strongly World: That ain't cool, Mr. Isreal. How 'bout peace and love, dude!?! Majority of Muslim ME Countries + Western Fanatical Anti Isrealites: DESTROY Isreal! They are THA Satan! This process is repeated a billion times. "Lemme try to simplify things for you. A guy killed your, say, wife. You responded by killing him, his elderly parents, his wife, his 3 children and the rest of his relatives. Proportional?" Nope. Not the same thing. Hamas attacks Isreali civilians so Isreal attacks Hamas, and unfortunately Hamas like all awesome terrorists hide amongst civlians and innocents die. Once and awhile, Isreal does go overboard and takes out whole buildings which is wrong but that would not happen if Hamas simply would not fire rockets. But, i guess to you, it's okay for Hamas to fire rockets but Isreal cna't defend themselves. It's not like Isreal can simply walk in and target all individual rocketeers in melee combat. It's called war for a reason. Then again, Hamas doesn't care about Palestine. They care about Hamas. "It was Jimmy carter had a hand in this and that's precisely the reason why he was treated very poorly by the Israelis on his last visit. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and senior ministers refused to meet him. The Shin Beth, Israel’s security service, refused to provide him with the protection usually given to distinguished foreign guests. Israel’s lobby in the United States vilified and insulted him, dismissing his brave peace efforts as the work of an ignorant and bumbling old man. The most extraordinary outburst came from Israel’s United Nations ambassador, Dan Gillerman, who told journalists that Carter "went to the region with soiled hands and came back with bloody hands after shaking the hand of Khaled Meshal, the leader of Hamas." How can such scandalously undiplomatic language be explained?" L0L Hamas doesn't want to negotiate peace. Any negotiations they do is nothing but a way to buy time to rebuild their weaponary for another round. They don't want to live side by side with Isreal. It's one of their main stated aims. The fact that good 'ol Carter actually expect isreal to ignore the fact was retarded. Edited January 3, 2009 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I like the fact that Mexico has overtaken Iraq in violent deaths, but no-one in the media seems terribly fussed, What is the cause of those deaths? What is it you think makes those death more newsworthy than Iraq? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenitay Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Violence is the cause of those deaths. Hey now, my mother is huge and don't you forget it. The drunk can't even get off the couch to make herself a vodka drenched sandwich. Octopus suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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