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Fallout 3


Gorth

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There still seems to be stuff to be said about Fallout 3 judging by the enthusiasm towards the end of the previous thread... plus with expansions looming threateningly in the horizon :aiee:

 

Start of old thread

End of old thread

 

Edit: No, I haven't played the game. Don't plan to either :)

Edited by Gorth

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There's no new info about the first DLC, right?

 

I am praying they actually plan some AI upgrades for all the combat... but if they didnt' do it between Oblivion and FO3, why would they start now?

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Recent interview I read they said they plan on AI upgrades. :)

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"I cannot profess to be a theologian; but it seems to me that Christians who believe in a super human Satan have got themselves into a logical impasse with regard to their own religion. For either God can not prevent the mischief of Satan, in which case he is not omnipotent; or else He could do so if he wished, but will not, in which case He is not benevolent. Fortunately, being a pagan witch, I am not called upon to solve this problem."

- Doreen Valiente

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Expecting "innovation" from Bioware is like expecting "normality" from Valve -Moatilliatta

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Edit: No, I haven't played the game. Don't plan to either :x

 

 

I haven't played it either but am planning to at some point. I think I am waiting for some sort of GOTY edition which will include the SDK, DLC, and of course, patches.

 

However, if one of these days I find myself bored and want to play a crpg, I might just go out and buy it anyway.

 

I am expecting a reasonably fun game and hope I am not disappointed. :)

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Oh, something that really should be mentioned is how Bethesda is improving on bugs. Morrowind at release was an absolute disaster (similar to NWN1), but Oblivion was considerably better as their second foray into 3D, and FO3 is generally quite good, with very impressive loading times. It does have several script errors that fail to fire and thus prevent you from finishing quests, but that is to be expected. I don't thinkt here are a lot of 'general' breakers out there.

 

I just discovered the location of all the Vaults, and finally Dogmeat after 25 hours (I am doing things backwards!). Super Mutants are still boring thanks to the "AI", but it's good fun looking inside different Vaults.

 

Recent interview I read they said they plan on AI upgrades.

 

Well it's great that they have the intention, at least. :x But they did screw everyone over with their Molyneuxian "Radiant AI" hype before, so let's see what they do, first.

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They really ran with the Vault-Tec-as-social-experimenters to an extent that I don't think Black Isle would have (indeed, Van Buren was mostly free of vaults in general) but it's still fun and interesting to explore the old vaults. The atmosphere in the vaults is 1000x more prominent than that of anything in Oblivion.

 

Would it have killed them to include a vault that hasn't been deserted or raided aside from 101, though? And isn't it a little peculiar that Vault 101 is apparently known to absolutely everyone in the wasteland (Vault 13 was little more than a myth to Shady Sands, which was just as close to 13 as Megaton was to 101) and yet nobody has deigned to try and crack it? Aren't vaults supposed to be tech goldmines?

Edited by Pop
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Well, 35 hours in apparently, and I'm nearly at the point of no return for the main quest. I've got ~120 locations, probably a lot out there I haven't looked at, but it's starting to wear out now.

 

The main quest is utterly retarded. There's no excuse for it. You can say the Water Chip quest in FO1 isn't so flashy or whatever, but no, this isn't even on that level. It doesn't make sense, you don't want it to make sense because there's nothing exciting about it, it's not emotional, philosophical or 'cool'... it's about as good as a rejected teletubbies show.

 

Without going into spoilers (though there's no keeping yourself spoiler-free, because it's entirely devoid of any enjoyment), the entire project your dad is working on makes no sense and is impossible. And while it WOULD be important in the setting, FO3 does its best to convince you that it doesn't matter. Then, of course, it doesn't help that every single line from your dad is written like a hollywood B-movie and delivered with little passion, so you'd be embarrassed to care about it all. You have no reason to care and it doesn't make sense, anyway.

 

I'd take the Morrowind main plot any day.

 

Anyway. Yes, the Vaults were very nice. All in all there's a lack of polish and lack of depth, but there are a lot of interesting things in Bethesda's Fallout world. Simply pretend the main quest doesn't exist, and it stands up quite well.

 

I'm debating how much time I want to spend finding other optional locations, since the combat is starting to get very boring and the architecture does get quite repetitive. We'll see. It's been a mostly good ride so far, though.

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Oh, something that really should be mentioned is how Bethesda is improving on bugs. Morrowind at release was an absolute disaster (similar to NWN1), but Oblivion was considerably better as their second foray into 3D, and FO3 is generally quite good, with very impressive loading times.

I don't understand what you're saying here? Arena was 3D, Daggerfall was 3D, the two spin-offs from the Elder Scrolls universe (Redguard and.. uh.. forgot the other one) were also 3D. Arena was so buggy I never even made it out of the first town (after the starting dungeon). Daggerfall was equally buggy and it took a LOT of tries before I finally got somewhere in its story (although I never remember actually finishing it). Morrowind was an absolute success compared to Daggerfall! Oblivion was as bug-free as I ever hope a game to be.

 

Fallout 3 is a bit buggier than Oblivion (for me) but it's still a damn impressive game.

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Arena was 3D, Daggerfall was 3D

 

I forgot about Redguard & co., but am I missing something here?

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Edit: No, I haven't played the game. Don't plan to either :)

 

Missing out on a great CRPG!

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http://www.wodonlinenews.net

---

Jericho sassed me so I broke into his house and stabbed him to death in his sleep. Problem solved. - J.E. Sawyer

---

"I cannot profess to be a theologian; but it seems to me that Christians who believe in a super human Satan have got themselves into a logical impasse with regard to their own religion. For either God can not prevent the mischief of Satan, in which case he is not omnipotent; or else He could do so if he wished, but will not, in which case He is not benevolent. Fortunately, being a pagan witch, I am not called upon to solve this problem."

- Doreen Valiente

---

Expecting "innovation" from Bioware is like expecting "normality" from Valve -Moatilliatta

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Oh, something that really should be mentioned is how Bethesda is improving on bugs. Morrowind at release was an absolute disaster (similar to NWN1), but Oblivion was considerably better as their second foray into 3D, and FO3 is generally quite good, with very impressive loading times.

I don't understand what you're saying here? Arena was 3D, Daggerfall was 3D, the two spin-offs from the Elder Scrolls universe (Redguard and.. uh.. forgot the other one) were also 3D. Arena was so buggy I never even made it out of the first town (after the starting dungeon). Daggerfall was equally buggy and it took a LOT of tries before I finally got somewhere in its story (although I never remember actually finishing it). Morrowind was an absolute success compared to Daggerfall! Oblivion was as bug-free as I ever hope a game to be.

 

Fallout 3 is a bit buggier than Oblivion (for me) but it's still a damn impressive game.

 

If you really want to get technical they were 2.5D, not true 3D like fo3 or unreal. They have the illusion of 3D like doom1 did, but were simply just sprites.

Admin of World of Darkness Online News

News/Community site for the WoD MMORPG

http://www.wodonlinenews.net

---

Jericho sassed me so I broke into his house and stabbed him to death in his sleep. Problem solved. - J.E. Sawyer

---

"I cannot profess to be a theologian; but it seems to me that Christians who believe in a super human Satan have got themselves into a logical impasse with regard to their own religion. For either God can not prevent the mischief of Satan, in which case he is not omnipotent; or else He could do so if he wished, but will not, in which case He is not benevolent. Fortunately, being a pagan witch, I am not called upon to solve this problem."

- Doreen Valiente

---

Expecting "innovation" from Bioware is like expecting "normality" from Valve -Moatilliatta

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(Redguard and.. uh.. forgot the other one)

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Oh, something that really should be mentioned is how Bethesda is improving on bugs. Morrowind at release was an absolute disaster (similar to NWN1), but Oblivion was considerably better as their second foray into 3D, and FO3 is generally quite good, with very impressive loading times.

I don't understand what you're saying here? Arena was 3D, Daggerfall was 3D, the two spin-offs from the Elder Scrolls universe (Redguard and.. uh.. forgot the other one) were also 3D. Arena was so buggy I never even made it out of the first town (after the starting dungeon). Daggerfall was equally buggy and it took a LOT of tries before I finally got somewhere in its story (although I never remember actually finishing it). Morrowind was an absolute success compared to Daggerfall! Oblivion was as bug-free as I ever hope a game to be.

 

Fallout 3 is a bit buggier than Oblivion (for me) but it's still a damn impressive game.

 

If you really want to get technical they were 2.5D, not true 3D like fo3 or unreal. They have the illusion of 3D like doom1 did, but were simply just sprites.

 

That's not true. The use of sprites for characters and items doesn't make a game "2.5D". The engine used for Daggerfall was true 3D, and was also used for Terminator Future Shock & SkyNET, which used sprites for character like Daggerfall, and used in Redguard, which had 3D characters. In fact the engine was one of the first true 3D engines, and I believe mkreku's point was that Oblivion was far from Bethesdas second foray into 3D.

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That's not true. The use of sprites for characters and items doesn't make a game "2.5D".

 

It does if you define a game as 'true 3D' as I did. No fully 3D world uses sprites rather then 3D models. While the world in of itself could pass for 3D nothing else did and thus does not make a 'true 3D' game. The illusion that everything is 3D <> make it so.

Admin of World of Darkness Online News

News/Community site for the WoD MMORPG

http://www.wodonlinenews.net

---

Jericho sassed me so I broke into his house and stabbed him to death in his sleep. Problem solved. - J.E. Sawyer

---

"I cannot profess to be a theologian; but it seems to me that Christians who believe in a super human Satan have got themselves into a logical impasse with regard to their own religion. For either God can not prevent the mischief of Satan, in which case he is not omnipotent; or else He could do so if he wished, but will not, in which case He is not benevolent. Fortunately, being a pagan witch, I am not called upon to solve this problem."

- Doreen Valiente

---

Expecting "innovation" from Bioware is like expecting "normality" from Valve -Moatilliatta

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That's not true. The use of sprites for characters and items doesn't make a game "2.5D".

 

It does if you define a game as 'true 3D' as I did. No fully 3D world uses sprites rather then 3D models.

 

Well if you use that strange definition then there are no true 3D games, because they all use sprites to some degree. "2.5D" or "pseudo-3D" refers to games like those in the Build engine that aren't 3D at all.

 

While the world in of itself could pass for 3D

 

The world in games like Daggerfall or SkyNET don't pass for 3D, they are 3D. Chock full 'o polygons 'n ****.

 

a 'true 3D' game.

 

Well sure, just like some folks like to say that Fallout 3 isn't a "true Fallout game" you can tell yourself that games that make heavy use of sprites aren't "true 3D games", but in reality the games mkreku mentioned use a 3D engine.

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Well, 35 hours in apparently, and I'm nearly at the point of no return for the main quest. I've got ~120 locations, probably a lot out there I haven't looked at, but it's starting to wear out now.

 

The main quest is utterly retarded. There's no excuse for it. You can say the Water Chip quest in FO1 isn't so flashy or whatever, but no, this isn't even on that level. It doesn't make sense, you don't want it to make sense because there's nothing exciting about it, it's not emotional, philosophical or 'cool'... it's about as good as a rejected teletubbies show.

 

Without going into spoilers (though there's no keeping yourself spoiler-free, because it's entirely devoid of any enjoyment), the entire project your dad is working on makes no sense and is impossible. And while it WOULD be important in the setting, FO3 does its best to convince you that it doesn't matter. Then, of course, it doesn't help that every single line from your dad is written like a hollywood B-movie and delivered with little passion, so you'd be embarrassed to care about it all. You have no reason to care and it doesn't make sense, anyway.

 

I'd take the Morrowind main plot any day.

 

Anyway. Yes, the Vaults were very nice. All in all there's a lack of polish and lack of depth, but there are a lot of interesting things in Bethesda's Fallout world. Simply pretend the main quest doesn't exist, and it stands up quite well.

 

I'm debating how much time I want to spend finding other optional locations, since the combat is starting to get very boring and the architecture does get quite repetitive. We'll see. It's been a mostly good ride so far, though.

The main quest is weak. All of the side quests is what keeps the game going.

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That's not true. The use of sprites for characters and items doesn't make a game "2.5D".

 

It does if you define a game as 'true 3D' as I did. No fully 3D world uses sprites rather then 3D models.

 

Well if you use that strange definition then there are no true 3D games, because they all use sprites to some degree. "2.5D" or "pseudo-3D" refers to games like those in the Build engine that aren't 3D at all.

 

While the world in of itself could pass for 3D

 

The world in games like Daggerfall or SkyNET don't pass for 3D, they are 3D. Chock full 'o polygons 'n ****.

 

a 'true 3D' game.

 

Well sure, just like some folks like to say that Fallout 3 isn't a "true Fallout game" you can tell yourself that games that make heavy use of sprites aren't "true 3D games", but in reality the games mkreku mentioned use a 3D engine.

 

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The main quest is weak. All of the side quests is what keeps the game going.

 

I played through to the ending just to see what happened. It easily takes the cake for the worst ending sequence in my memory in any media form. They could have cut KOTOR2 before your final talk with Kreia and had a bunch of flying monkey aliens come and shoot up the place as an ending and it would still not be as *facepalm*.

 

It's not even that it doesn't make sense. They tried to be 'epic', 'emotional' and 'cinematic', but the script is nonsense, the scene direction / pacing is horrible and the delivery is simply amateur. I thought I had stumbled onto a bad mod. Glug glug. I also feel sorry for Ron Perlman, even his voice can't save the day when the script is that bad.

 

Loaded to a spot before that final sequence, and just wandering around to see what I've missed, but now I can wear Power Armour and am over level 15, it's not like I really need anything I find in the Wasteland, or the XP, and the combat ends in one-shot kills. I'll probably spend another couple of hours then hang this one up.

 

Didn't keep hold of me anywhere as long as Oblivion (40 v. 60), but probably becasue it's smaller. It is a very much superior game (no Oblivion gates!), and there's a lot more scope for good modding to ramp up replayability here, IMO. Every settlement needs to be expanded a lot to make it more than two houses and a pea**** on the roadside, and I'm sure somebody out there will fix up that main quest. Right now it couldn't win a kindergarden fiction contest.

 

Oh... and the 3D guys, when you're done, we can talk about "What is an RPG"! ;)

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Bottom line I am not alone in my opinion doom1 and the like are pseudo-3D. Google it. But its OT and really not worth getting into a huff over, lets agree to disagree and move forward.

Edited by Rhomal

Admin of World of Darkness Online News

News/Community site for the WoD MMORPG

http://www.wodonlinenews.net

---

Jericho sassed me so I broke into his house and stabbed him to death in his sleep. Problem solved. - J.E. Sawyer

---

"I cannot profess to be a theologian; but it seems to me that Christians who believe in a super human Satan have got themselves into a logical impasse with regard to their own religion. For either God can not prevent the mischief of Satan, in which case he is not omnipotent; or else He could do so if he wished, but will not, in which case He is not benevolent. Fortunately, being a pagan witch, I am not called upon to solve this problem."

- Doreen Valiente

---

Expecting "innovation" from Bioware is like expecting "normality" from Valve -Moatilliatta

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Doom is pseudo-3D, Daggerfall isn't. It has nothing to do with sprites, it has to do with the game space.

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