BioWare/Lucas Arts game unveiled Oct 21

[karka]

I'm just glad that Bioware is developing the next KotOR related game.

[GhostofAnakin]

*rubs eyes in shock of seeing the Ghost Of Anakin*

 

I log in when a topic interests me. Otherwise, I simply lurk.

[Magister Lajciak]

Well, reading the description of the setting, it looks like that pretty much eliminates even the slightest chance that a KOTOR III -- or a closure of the Revan saga -- will be developed. I'm disappointed for a couple of reasons. One, what can I say? I'm a fan of Revan. I thought he (yes, he) was an interesting character. So I dislike this "he left but never came back" vague stuff. And two, the MMO seems to kind of now use the events from the KOTOR series and shift it to suit their own story.

 

I wish they'd have just set the game a few hundred years before the events of KOTOR, instead of afterward.

 

 

Repeat after me: Revan is most likely the mysterious Sith Emperor, Revan is most likely the mysterious Sith Emperor, Revan is most likely the mysterious Sith Emperor, Revan is most likely the mysterious Sith Emperor, Revan...

[Magister Lajciak]

Ok so I don't have the heart to wade through this thread. Is there going to be both a Kotor 3 and another Starwars Memopherger ....

 

Unfortunately, there will be only the SWOR MMO.

[Magister Lajciak]

Will only play if I can regularly disembowel tauntauns and rest in their cadavers.

 

I will play it if they add an extensive single player, offline, non-pay-to-play, DDRM-free component to the game.

[neckthrough]

Obviously, since it needs to run on poor peoples computers.

 

I doubt that making it in a more "realistic" style -id est the other two KotOR games- would task people's PC too much.

 

Poor people are also unlikely to be able to afford a game with monthly fees - unless they are very, very motivated indeed to play it.

 

Not true. A small monthly cost is much easier to swallow than a large upfront payment for high end computer components.

Depends on how small "small" is. A year's subscription of WoW would cost you $180 (not including the initial game cost), for which you could buy a fairly high-end card (9800GTX) and plop it into any run-of-the mill Dell machine and turn it into a Crysis-capable monster. Now if we're talking $5 a month, then yes, your comparison is valid.

[Magister Lajciak]

Obviously, since it needs to run on poor peoples computers.

 

I doubt that making it in a more "realistic" style -id est the other two KotOR games- would task people's PC too much.

 

Poor people are also unlikely to be able to afford a game with monthly fees - unless they are very, very motivated indeed to play it.

 

Not true. A small monthly cost is much easier to swallow than a large upfront payment for high end computer components.

Depends on how small "small" is. A year's subscription of WoW would cost you $180 (not including the initial game cost), for which you could buy a fairly high-end card (9800GTX) and plop it into any run-of-the mill Dell machine and turn it into a Crysis-capable monster. Now if we're talking $5 a month, then yes, your comparison is valid.

 

Indeed - plus also bear in mind that the game usually does have an initial cost as well!

[Killian Kalthorne]

Just when I thought Bioware couldn't sink any lower they go and announce this travesty.

Don't like it, don't play it. Simple, eh?

[thepixiesrock]

Repeat after me: Revan is most likely the mysterious Sith Emperor, Revan is most likely the mysterious Sith Emperor, Revan is most likely the mysterious Sith Emperor, Revan is most likely the mysterious Sith Emperor, Revan...

 

Shut up.

[jaguars4ever]

Repeat after me: Revan is most likely the mysterious Sith Emperor, Revan is most likely the mysterious Sith Emperor, Revan is most likely the mysterious Sith Emperor, Revan is most likely the mysterious Sith Emperor, Revan...

 

Shut up.

You tell him Pixie.

 

Sithing ain't easy.

[maia]

Depends on how small "small" is. A year's subscription of WoW would cost you $180 (not including the initial game cost), for which you could buy a fairly high-end card (9800GTX) and plop it into any run-of-the mill Dell machine and turn it into a Crysis-capable monster.

 

And play for what? 6 hours? 8? Not to mention that purportedly the last 30% of "Crysis" is not so great and generally Crysis is just another shooter, albeit a pretty one. There is no doubt that by a MMO with modest tech requirements folks in strained circumstances get far more entertainment for their buck. Not to mention that ongoing small payments are easier to manage (and justify to oneself) and they can cancel at any time.

 

Personally, I am sick and tired of the graphics race and would heartily endorse some single-player games with lower-end graphics as well. Maybe the Devs would even manage to make them with few bugs and new, interesting gameplay, if they aren't so concentrated on forcing some extra pixels in? Isn't it funny, how most games run at top form on most normal gamers PCs only a year or 2 after release, when they have become bargain purchases long since? What kind of screwed up economics is that?

 

Re: KOTOR MMO - what an unfortunate decision. Particularly without even finishing the single-player games plot arc. I really don't understand Lucas Arts - they had a very successful "Jedi Knight" franchise, they killed it. KOTOR was also successful, but they just had to push KOTOR 2 out of the door before it was ready, so that it wasn't quite as successful as the original, but still nothing to sneeze at. And then they didn't even have the decency to finish the trilogy, before cannibalizing it for another try at a MMPORG. Oh, the humanity...

[Volourn]

"must be a real kick in the teeth to OE and to Chris Avellone in particular to have your hard work traduced with a sequel this ****ty."

 

Oh, get over it. You can go on,a nd on how awesome KOTOR2 was/is (I liked it as much as kOTOR1 personally); but obviously it failed to impress LA enough to allow Obsidian to make a KOTOR3 so in essence, Obsidian kicked LA in the teeth.

 

 

"Typical of BioWhore, EA and LA, though, really."

 

Yeah, they're too busy making games most p0eople wnat tom play not just Obsidian fanboys are relaly just a subset of BIO fanboys 9even as they trash BIO games in the Visceris way).

 

In other words, more 'woe is me' over a video game. HAHAHA!

[alanschu]

Depends on how small "small" is. A year's subscription of WoW would cost you $180 (not including the initial game cost), for which you could buy a fairly high-end card (9800GTX) and plop it into any run-of-the mill Dell machine and turn it into a Crysis-capable monster. Now if we're talking $5 a month, then yes, your comparison is valid.

 

 

Why do you think people lease and mortgage purchases that cost them several times more than the actual value of the purchase? A year's subscription to WoW may cost you $180, but when you're paying it in $15 increments, it becomes easier to make that payment. $180 up front is seen as a more significant cost than $180 spread out over 12 months. Furthermore, saving up for $180 does have an effect on people...since it becomes easier to impulse buy something that comes up. Now, I could save up for 12 months to buy the video card to play the game I want to play (net 0 months of play time), or I could just play the game (net 12 months of play time). Which one do you think someone that doesn't have much for money laying around would prefer?

 

If I plop down $180 on a video card, but then hit a financial crisis where I'm very tight for cash...I am pooched....the money is gone, and never coming back. If I am currently in month 3 of my $15 subscription, I stop my subscription, and still have money left over.

[neckthrough]

Depends on how small "small" is. A year's subscription of WoW would cost you $180 (not including the initial game cost), for which you could buy a fairly high-end card (9800GTX) and plop it into any run-of-the mill Dell machine and turn it into a Crysis-capable monster.

 

And play for what? 6 hours? 8? Not to mention that purportedly the last 30% of "Crysis" is not so great and generally Crysis is just another shooter, albeit a pretty one. There is no doubt that by a MMO with modest tech requirements folks in strained circumstances get far more entertainment for their buck. Not to mention that ongoing small payments are easier to manage (and justify to oneself) and they can cancel at any time.

 

Personally, I am sick and tired of the graphics race and would heartily endorse some single-player games with lower-end graphics as well. Maybe the Devs would even manage to make them with few bugs and new, interesting gameplay, if they aren't so concentrated on forcing some extra pixels in? Isn't it funny, how most games run at top form on most normal gamers PCs only a year or 2 after release, when they have become bargain purchases long since? What kind of screwed up economics is that?

I do agree that a blind graphics race is stupid. Visual appeal is an important to me, but art direction is far more important than sheer technical pixel-pushing prowess. WoW itself is a great example with modest system requirements, yet it looks gorgeous.

 

But you took my Crysis example out of context. It may be a short, crappy game. But there are many single-player or multi-player free-to-play games that people derive months of enjoyment from. Some of these require hardware investments, but the amount you pay for WoW ($180) is more than enough to buy a new $50 game every year plus all the hardware upgrade you need to be able to play any game you wish. I do *not* like having to continuously upgrade hardware, I think having to spend $100 each year on a graphics card is ridiculous. But having to pay $180 for WoW (or any game), to me, is equally ridiculous.

 

Depends on how small "small" is. A year's subscription of WoW would cost you $180 (not including the initial game cost), for which you could buy a fairly high-end card (9800GTX) and plop it into any run-of-the mill Dell machine and turn it into a Crysis-capable monster. Now if we're talking $5 a month, then yes, your comparison is valid.

 

 

Why do you think people lease and mortgage purchases that cost them several times more than the actual value of the purchase? A year's subscription to WoW may cost you $180, but when you're paying it in $15 increments, it becomes easier to make that payment. $180 up front is seen as a more significant cost than $180 spread out over 12 months. Furthermore, saving up for $180 does have an effect on people...since it becomes easier to impulse buy something that comes up. Now, I could save up for 12 months to buy the video card to play the game I want to play (net 0 months of play time), or I could just play the game (net 12 months of play time). Which one do you think someone that doesn't have much for money laying around would prefer?

 

If I plop down $180 on a video card, but then hit a financial crisis where I'm very tight for cash...I am pooched....the money is gone, and never coming back. If I am currently in month 3 of my $15 subscription, I stop my subscription, and still have money left over.

Yes, I do understand the economics. It's just that intuitively it seems to me that anybody that doesn't have $180 in floating expendable cash probably wouldn't consider spending $15 a month on a sheer luxury like a game subscription a wise idea. Cars and homes are slightly different, since they are essential amenities, the loan periods are 5-30x longer, plus I think human brains throw all logic down the drain when it comes to taking out a mortgage on a house.

Edited October 22, 2008 by neckthrough

[Maria Caliban]

BioWare Austin's Star Wars: The Old Republic has enough content to fill the shoes of "KOTOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and beyond," according to BioWare co-founder Ray Muzyka at the game's announcement earlier today.

 

To that end, lead writer Daniel Erickson has headed a team of 12 full-time writers for several years in crafting storylines tailored to each class. Adding to the complexity, BioWare has brought its trademark moral quandaries into the equation, creating another dimension on which to write compelling storylines.

 

Shacknews talked to Erickson about the considerable writing effort in the long-awaited MMO and learned about a great deal, from moral decisions and Jedi to bunnies and Han Solo.

 

On the way story will work in The Old Republic:

"We have classes in the game, and every class has a different story. Every class has a story that will take you from the first level of the game to the last level of the game, and none of those stories are the same.

 

In the same way, faction stuff is split out between the Empire and Republic. So the takeaway note from this is, if you roll a Jedi character and you play them from the first level to the last level, and then you roll a Sith and you play them from the first, you will not see one repeated quest, line of dialogue, or piece of content. It is a 100% different story experience.

 

That is not to say you won't see the opposite side of the conflict. It is about war. We don't play common people. We play huge heroes in the Star Wars universe, which means the war is important."

 

On the strength of class-based story:

"You are a Sith. You have a Darth Vader fantasy. You are now playing, for all intents and purposes, a Sith RPG."

 

On how confusing the story will be for newcomers:

"What happened to Bastilla? This isn't stuff that we would ever shove into someone's face. People will be playing that have never played a KOTOR game, or have even watched a Star Wars movie.

 

Just like we would for any fantasy game, [as a Jedi starting out] you go to Typhon, you train to be a Jedi, and you learn what it means to be a Jedi."

 

On the idea of choice-based story in an MMO:

"You're 60 hours into the game on the light side, and you hit this huge choice. You know exactly what you want to do, and you look for the save button, and you realize there is no save button. I'm gonna make this choice, and this choice is going to be my choice forever. It makes not only the individualism of we're actually telling this story, but the power of making these choices stronger than they've ever been in any BioWare game."

 

On how the story will change depending on your companions:

"The things you get to see are going to be dependent on who you're traveling with. If Han had never hooked up on Luke, he would have never had a perspective on the Force."

 

On the possibility of more abstract, Han Solo-type classes:

"There are a lot of fantasies in Star Wars, and they're not all Jedi and Sith."

 

On including quests that don't feel "epic":

"You will never have a stranger ask you to save her cat.

 

There are no bunnies. There are no rabbits. You are a Jedi. At no point will you be sitting down saying, okay, I have three buttons and a crystal. If I only had some thread, I could make some shoes."

 

On whether this means there won't be crafting:

"That is not correct. There will be crafting."

 

SOURCE: http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1033

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Well, sounds like it could be a nice MMO.

 

I still detest the art style though. And as long as they don't screw up any chance of Kotor 3 I'll live.

[Aristes]

What this tells me is that, as these companies iron out the kinks, that anyone with sufficient cash will switch to MMO models. They've given up on trying to differentiate themselves by tighter stories, probably figuring that folks who really like the story elements will be able to pick out good stories from the background and the rest can just quest for better gear, new abilities, and better stats. This isn't bad or good news, but I do see MMOs as taking a bigger slice of the RPG pie. This can be bad if it results in the death of single player RPG titles. It can also be good if it shakes out the lightweights and forces the survivors to craft superior stories. As long as RPGs continue to shift to multi-player content, often resulting in games that fail to focus sufficiently on either single or multi player gameplay, then RPGs will continue to trade away their best asset (tighter control of the story).

 

I'm ambivalent in regards to the announcement. It's not that I don't think it's important. On the contrary, it's extremely important news for one of my favorite computer game categories. I'm unsure of how to take the news because it could be good or bad. It might spell a further decline in single player RPG titles or it might bolster the more creative of the developers to respond with more quality products.

[Slowtrain]

This can be bad if it results in the death of single player RPG titles.

 

 

That would seem unlikely on the surface. There is always a market for single player games, and the gaming world can only sustain so many MMORPG's at a given time.

[Dark_Raven]

"must be a real kick in the teeth to OE and to Chris Avellone in particular to have your hard work traduced with a sequel this ****ty."

 

Oh, get over it. You can go on,a nd on how awesome KOTOR2 was/is (I liked it as much as kOTOR1 personally); but obviously it failed to impress LA enough to allow Obsidian to make a KOTOR3 so in essence, Obsidian kicked LA in the teeth.

 

 

"Typical of BioWhore, EA and LA, though, really."

 

Yeah, they're too busy making games most p0eople wnat tom play not just Obsidian fanboys are relaly just a subset of BIO fanboys 9even as they trash BIO games in the Visceris way).

 

In other words, more 'woe is me' over a video game. HAHAHA!

They are? Could have fooled me.

[GhostofAnakin]

And as long as they don't screw up any chance of Kotor 3 I'll live.

 

Based on the setting information, I think that's exactly what they did. How can KOTOR III be made (assuming you're referring to the Revan going off into the unknown regions plot) now, after this MMO takes place 300 years after the events of KOTOR and states that Revan left and never returned?

[Dark_Raven]

Who ever stated that is just plain stupid. Now we'll never know what happen to the mighty Revan and Exile.

[alanschu]

That's not true. All we know is Revan never returned. At least, we didn't know he returned.

[alanschu]

"must be a real kick in the teeth to OE and to Chris Avellone in particular to have your hard work traduced with a sequel this ****ty."

 

Oh, get over it. You can go on,a nd on how awesome KOTOR2 was/is (I liked it as much as kOTOR1 personally); but obviously it failed to impress LA enough to allow Obsidian to make a KOTOR3 so in essence, Obsidian kicked LA in the teeth.

 

 

"Typical of BioWhore, EA and LA, though, really."

 

Yeah, they're too busy making games most p0eople wnat tom play not just Obsidian fanboys are relaly just a subset of BIO fanboys 9even as they trash BIO games in the Visceris way).

 

In other words, more 'woe is me' over a video game. HAHAHA!

They are? Could have fooled me.

 

Then pay attention. I am interested in the Star Wars MMO being made. I'm not the only person in this thread that is interested in it either.

[Atom523]

That's not true. All we know is Revan never returned. At least, we didn't know he returned.

 

exactly, for all we know they could have a KOTOR 3 where most of the game happens in the republic and then for the last part you go into the unknown regions and find Reven and the Exile. All they have to do then is end the game with you all still there and there is no conflict. Or they can have Reven and the Exile die, that would work too.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Atom523

[steelfiredragon]

its a mmo, not buying it.

 

sorry bioware, but im getting dragonage, not this