Why is ME better/worse than other Bioware games

[Wrath of Dagon]

i find the Mass Effect hate bewildering. Maybe if your first love is the Star Wars universe, i can maybe see how a KOTOR fan would be disappointed by ME.

My hatred for ME comes from expecting the next great thing since KOTOR, and getting a piece of half-baked, half-assed garbage instead.

But often i was playing Mass Effect, i could have sworn i was back playing KOTOR, especially when the corridors of the Citadel look identical to any random spaceport in either KOTOR game.

So the similarity between them are the corridors? The difference is KOTOR had a lot more than spaceport corridors, each planet had its own character and theme, while ME's theme was the future galaxy looks like strip malls and underground garages in various textures of gray concrete.

 

As far as combat, of course it's shooter combat, what else could it possibly be? Since there's nothing worthwhile in the game except combat, that makes it a shooter.

[qt3.14159]

i find the Mass Effect hate bewildering. Maybe if your first love is the Star Wars universe, i can maybe see how a KOTOR fan would be disappointed by ME.

My hatred for ME comes from expecting the next great thing since KOTOR, and getting a piece of half-baked, half-assed garbage instead.

 

Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with this. I heard such great things about this game. I had heard that it was very similar to KOTOR and so I wasn't surprised that many of the story elements are the same, but I did expect the characters and universe to be compelling... and they just weren't.

 

Also, I found that having the PC say the lines, usually worded and expressed much differently than my own reaction would have been it really threw me out of the whole RPG feel of it. It wasn't an RPG it was a choose your own adventure movie. And as movies go, this one was meh.

[newc0253]

My hatred for ME comes from expecting the next great thing since KOTOR, and getting a piece of half-baked, half-assed garbage instead.

uh, hyperbole much?

 

i can get KOTOR fans not loving Mass Effect as much as KOTOR. i have an inordinately hard time understanding how anyone who liked KOTOR would describe Mass Effect as 'garbage'.

 

So the similarity between them are the corridors? The difference is KOTOR had a lot more than spaceport corridors, each planet had its own character and theme, while ME's theme was the future galaxy looks like strip malls and underground garages in various textures of gray concrete.

of course there's more to a game than the look of the corridors. but if you agree that they looked similar, then it's hard to understand your complaint about the future looking like a strip mall. also, you don't have to be terribly objective to see that KOTOR and Mass Effect had the same visual team and overall look - Mass Effect did rely more heavily on set pieces (e.g. every mine looked the same) but it's not like each part of KOTOR was lovingly hand-crafted...

 

Since there's nothing worthwhile in the game except combat, that makes it a shooter.

nothing worthwhile? yeah, hyperbole really is your thing.

Edited October 8, 2008 by newc0253

[mkreku]

So uh.. I found a deal on Mass Effect ( http://www.spelbutiken.se/catalog/product/...-effect--for-pc if any other Swedes are interested).. But is it worth buying? On one hand, the combat doesn't sound like a passive snorefest anymore.. On the other hand, it sounds like typical vanilla Bioware story/writing: It doesn't interest or excite me in the slightest.

 

I'm pretty starved for a RPG though. Oh, screw it, I accidentally ordered it while writing this post

[Llyranor]

The problem with Mass Effect being an action RPG and not a shooter is that it has pretty horrible action RPG combat mechanics.

 

It has very severe/significant flaws and very questionable game design elements, more so that other Bioware games. Its high points, though, make up for it for me. Other Bioware titles (I've played all their RPGs except Sonic Crapicles lol) *are* significantly more polished as a whole, but having played them a few years back, I have no real praise for them, or little more than a few fond memories here and there. They were just forgettable. Is ME destined to fit that as well? I don't know yet, but I enjoyed it enough I'm looking forward to its sequel. Can I say the same about any other Bioware game? Not really.

 

It was still severely botched in many area, but it's still the best 'worst' game I've played, I would think.

 

Guess what? I think KOTOR is half-baked half-arsed garbage too lol. Two or three or more can play that game. Heck, Magical Volo mastered it.

[Nick_i_am]

The KotoR > ME people all seem to be saying the same thing actually.

 

That the KotoR universe was more expansive and that the NPCs were more talkative.

 

In terms of actual quality there was very little difference (writing and level design that is) so it's really the quantity that's the crutch it seems.

 

I mean, Kaiden and Karth might as well be the same person, but Karth has 2/3 times more lines. Alternatively, it could simply be the fact that NPCs did very very little when off the ship in ME, unlike in KotoR where they would still interact with the player and other NPCs (even if it was limited).

Edited October 8, 2008 by Nick_i_am

[Pidesco]

My hatred for ME comes from expecting the next great thing since KOTOR, and getting a piece of half-baked, half-assed garbage instead.

 

 

"My hatred for Linkin' Park comes from expecting the next great thing since Limp Bizkit, and getting a piece of half-baked, half-assed garbage instead."

 

 

You see where you're going wrong there?

[Nightshape]

Hardcore KOTOR fans just wanted KOTOR 3 instead... Fair dinkum to them, but all the same, Mass Effect worked for me, it was both a fun playable game and an entertaining experience.

 

I didn't think much of KOTOR, typical star wars franchise stuff, it's not really comparative in my opinion as they play very differently. I never could engage with KOTOR 1, but ME had me hooked in a way I hadn't been since BG 1, for me they recaptured something esoteric that made me want to play obsessively.

 

Not everyone will share in that experience, and while I'm the first to rip on NWN's, I do believe everything bioware has done since NWN 1 has been of a very high quality.

[Wrath of Dagon]

My hatred for ME comes from expecting the next great thing since KOTOR, and getting a piece of half-baked, half-assed garbage instead.

uh, hyperbole much?

No, did you not see my list of reasons? Do you deny any of them?

i can get KOTOR fans not loving Mass Effect as much as KOTOR. i have an inordinately hard time understanding how anyone who liked KOTOR would describe Mass Effect as 'garbage'.

KOTOR was high quality, ME was not, it's as simple as that.

but it's not like each part of KOTOR was lovingly hand-crafted...

It looked to me like it was, of course the graphics were limited by the engine, but art design was top notch and played a purpose throughout. I still love it whenever I run across a KOTOR screenshot. ME was generic props cut and pasted ad nauseum, it created nothing but a feeling of dreariness.

[nothing worthwhile? yeah, hyperbole really is your thing.

No it's not, objectivity is my thing, what did you find worthwhile?

[Wrath of Dagon]

I mean, Kaiden and Karth might as well be the same person, but Karth has 2/3 times more lines. Alternatively, it could simply be the fact that NPCs did very very little when off the ship in ME, unlike in KotoR where they would still interact with the player and other NPCs (even if it was limited).

For one thing, remember Carth came first, so it's not like KOTOR copied Kaiden. For another thing, it was probably 5 times more lines. Carth was an interesting, well developed character, with a real history, a history which affected his behavior in the game and was actually part of a fairly major plot point. All Kaiden had going for him is his sad tale of being experimented on as a child, waah, waah, which really had nothing to do with anything else in the game. This perfectly illustrates the kind of thing KOTOR did so well and ME completely failed to do, I'll never understand why people don't see it for themselves. Edited October 8, 2008 by Wrath of Dagon

[Wrath of Dagon]

My hatred for ME comes from expecting the next great thing since KOTOR, and getting a piece of half-baked, half-assed garbage instead.

 

 

"My hatred for Linkin' Park comes from expecting the next great thing since Limp Bizkit, and getting a piece of half-baked, half-assed garbage instead."

 

 

You see where you're going wrong there?

I see what's wrong with your statement, was Linkin Park formed by former members of Limp Bizkit?

[Llyranor]

Carth was an interesting, well developed character

ROFLASLKGJASKLGJKSAGHASKJGHASKGHASVGKAJSKGFGBASKFJAS

 

Man, sig material.

[Strix]

Carth was an interesting, well developed character...

 

Are we thinking of the same Carth? Your "waah, waah" description fits him perfectly.

[qt3.14159]

Isn't it funny how the male / female dynamic skews things? Most of the girls I know adored Carth and thought Bastila was a major bitch. Perhaps if game developers want to be taken seriously in the future, they'll have either two sets of characters or two completely different types of interactions based on gender.

 

Therefore, Carth, being a guy, wouldn't open up and cry about his dead wife and son to another guy, but Bastila would find *some* way to be nice to a female PC. Because seriously, she's a bitch.

 

Ok... and, um... ME... uuuhhh... Kaidan was kinda cute, but I always felt like I missed something, a major part of his story. But I didn't. It's just not there.

[Llyranor]

Bastila was a horrible character for male PCs too.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Carth was betrayed by the person he trusted and respected most, and as a result lost everything that was dear to him, his family. He had a reason to mope. The only thing they copied for Kaiden was the sad tale and the waah, waah.

 

Edit: I thought both Bastila and Carth were great characters, and didn't romance either. Bastila's bitchiness is a feature so far as I'm concerned, what makes her interesting is that she's conflicted between her passions and her duty.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Wrath of Dagon

[Moatilliatta]

Bastila was a horrible character for male PCs too.

That's because of our superiour taste to the general populace.

 

No, really, there is a point to what qt is saying as there were important character info in the romance dialogues that meant that bastila and carth were predisposed towards being disliked by PCs of their own gender as they missed out on those romance dialogues.

[kirottu]

Yes, bitchy women are interesting.

 

Honestly, I rank Kotor as only slightly better than NWN OC. I agree almost everything magical Volourn has to say about Kotor. It truly is almost ridiculously overrated.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Carth annoyed me. Kaiden didn't.

 

Personally, I liked ME over KotOR then again I am not particularly fond of Star Wars. I thought ME was a good blend of action and story. The role play was there, but it could have ben better but the overall fun factor makes it the top game in my book. Dagon would disagree of course, but that's okay.

[Pidesco]

The biggest problem with both KOTOR characters and ME characters is the way they're presented to the player. Attaching their character development to level ups/major plot points made them artificial, awkward to relate to, and shallow. They're basically just a stupid metagame.

 

The fact that Bastila is ready to be your friend/bumper of uglies, even if you keep her locked away in the spaceship the entire game just destroys any chance of her being an interesting character. And the writing doesn't help, either.

[newc0253]

did you not see my list of reasons? Do you deny any of them?

*shrug* what's to deny? you say you dislike Mass Effect, i believe you.

 

asking me to deny your reasons for disliking Mass Effect is like asking me to deny your reasons for disliking chocolate ice cream.

 

it's a little hard to understand your extreme hatred for Mass Effect, however, given that you liked KOTOR - they're very similar games. that's like a fan of chocolate hating chocolate ice cream ... because of the chocolate.

 

objectivity is my thing

yes, i 'm certain you believe you're being objective...

 

 

what did you find worthwhile?

in Mass Effect? lots. i thought it was generally well-written, with decent characters, art design, etc. I think KOTOR had a better story overall, one that was complete on its own terms, rather than Mass Effect which was obviously written with a view to establishing a universe and further sequels (something KOTOR didn't need to do, being set in a universe familiar to most of the movie-going population). Mass Effect also relied more heavily on generic features like the Mako exploration, but that's pretty understandable given that KOTOR allowed you to land on approximately 6 worlds and Mass Effect allowed you to land on more than 100.

 

the bottom line, though, is that the two games have far more in common than they are different & that's why i find the declarations of undying love for one and the vehement declarations of blistering hatred for the other a little hard to grasp.

 

but i'm sure that's simply because i'm not as objective as you.

Edited October 8, 2008 by newc0253

[Strix]

Isn't it funny how the male / female dynamic skews things?

 

Yes, yes, we know your theory and how you like Carth...

[J.E. Sawyer]

MDK2 is the best BioWare game.

 

Peace.

[qt3.14159]

Isn't it funny how the male / female dynamic skews things?

 

Yes, yes, we know your theory and how you like Carth...

 

 

Actually, I don't like Carth all that much... I'm an Atton fangirl! (see my sig!) I did enjoy the interactions with Carth in K1, though... except for his lame "I think I maybe could possibly love you" confession he made in front of the ENTIRE crew. But hey, that's more than you got with Atton!

 

But now that you brought it up... I think we can all (well most of us anyway) agree that the characters in K2 were *much* better overall than in either K1 or ME.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I don't agree, characters in K1 > K2 >> ME. Except for Kreia, she was a K1 level character.