Star Wars: The Old Republic MMO: Ideas and Discussion Part 1

[Rosbjerg]

Welcome to Stars Wars MMO: Ideas and Discussion part 1.

 

As previously announced, Bioware and Lucasart will be making a MMO.

 

The purpose of this thread is to have a place for all discussion and speculation relating to the future Star Wars MMO. For the the discussion about any potential single-player Kotor 3, please go here.

 

If you want to make any suggestions to the game, you can also go to Bioware's own discussion thread.

[Xard]

How 'bout k3 not being a MMO?

 

Yeah, well, I think the vocal majority want it not be a MMO too...

 

vocal minority

 

 

silent majority is ok with it

 

We don't really know.

 

Yes we do. It is always same thing. Your Average Fan (who is NOT part of message boards) just aren't as rabid as people here.

 

It has been seen over and over again with other games and game franchises.

 

Your average Kotor fan - as even in message boards there are a lot people who love the idea of MMORPG - just doesn't give a ****. He's propably thrilled by the news (if he has even heard about it)

 

 

It is something which always happens at message boads. There'll be epic nerd rage and what not but large masses won't care that much

Edited August 25, 2008 by Xard

[random n00b]

Yes we do. It is always same thing. Your Average Fan (who is NOT part of message boards) just aren't as rabid as people here.

 

It has been seen over and over again with other games and game franchises.

 

Your average Kotor fan - as even in message boards there are a lot people who love the idea of MMORPG - just doesn't give a ****. He's propably thrilled by the news (if he has even heard about it)

Well, rigorously, he's right - we don't know.

 

It's hard to say how fans of the franchise will react to the news of the next installment being a MMO, especially since it's as of yet unknown if this means that a third, single-player episode will not be made. But, if these boards are anything to make an educated guess from (and they are most definitely not), only a minority will really be pissed about it.

 

And by the way, masses seldom care about anything really...

[Xard]

True, I can't say anything for certain. All I can do is trust on previous experiences and events. And they show clear pattern.

 

Sure, it could be different and sometimes is. And of course I can't know for certain. Technically speaking I can't disprove claim that sun won't rise tomorrow. Sure I can by using differing (empiricality and rationality based) arguments reduce propability of it practically to null, but I can't disprove it. Science is after all epistemological and not ontological. And then there's Kant's Das Ding An Sich...

 

Anyway, I mean that I recognize the fact I can't know it for sure. But judging by the pattern and the many happy posts across the internet (which doesn't represent the "mass" anyway) it is likely outcome.

 

Then again it could be another DX: Invisible Wars. But I find that unlikely

 

plus the whole vocal minority/silent majority is truth of social psychology - or heck, common sense - anyway. And I see no reason why it shouldn't apply here like it does elsewhere from newspapers to message boards

Edited August 25, 2008 by Xard

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Well, personally, every person I know offline who calls themselves a "fan" of Kotor is against the MMO...

[Brittany]

Well, personally, every person I know offline who calls themselves a "fan" of Kotor is against the MMO...

 

Yep. Same here.

[SteveThaiBinh]

It's hardly surprising, I guess. KotOR1 and KotOR2 were single-player RPGs, probably bought mostly by people who like single-player RPGs, so of course many of us would prefer KotOR3 to be the same.

 

I'm still very curious to know what attracted Bioware, famous for their stories, to MMORPGs. Do they have something up their sleeve?

[I want teh kotor 3]

Well, personally, every person I know offline who calls themselves a "fan" of Kotor is against the MMO...

 

Yep. Same here.

 

Me three.

 

It's hardly surprising, I guess. KotOR1 and KotOR2 were single-player RPGs, probably bought mostly by people who like single-player RPGs, so of course many of us would prefer KotOR3 to be the same.

 

I'm still very curious to know what attracted Bioware, famous for their stories, to MMORPGs. Do they have something up their sleeve?

 

It's called EA.

[Albion72]

Well, personally, every person I know offline who calls themselves a "fan" of Kotor is against the MMO...

 

Yep. Same here.

 

Me three.

 

It's hardly surprising, I guess. KotOR1 and KotOR2 were single-player RPGs, probably bought mostly by people who like single-player RPGs, so of course many of us would prefer KotOR3 to be the same.

 

I'm still very curious to know what attracted Bioware, famous for their stories, to MMORPGs. Do they have something up their sleeve?

 

It's called EA.

 

I don't really care. I will play this MMO. I enjoy singleplayer and MMOs, just not sports games :D. Could play those in real life.

 

IMO Obsidian will get a KOTOR 3 Project just because they are the ones who practically created the breathtaking plot in KOTOR II. Only makes sense to let the geniuses take over after their first successs.

[Jediphile]

It's hardly surprising, I guess. KotOR1 and KotOR2 were single-player RPGs, probably bought mostly by people who like single-player RPGs, so of course many of us would prefer KotOR3 to be the same.

 

Agreed. If people like MMOs, fine. They're welcome to them, but I still don't enjoy them. What I don't get is why an MMO would focus on KotOR, which has so far supported SPRPGs and has been successful at it. Even TSL made good money despite its incomplete status. On that basis alone a single-player KotOR3 would seem to me to be an excuse to print money. If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

 

Now, could a new Star Wars MMO work? Sure it could. There are successful MMOs out there. Galaxies has not done so well, so a new Star Wars MMO might not be such a terrible idea. But why it would be linked to KotOR escapes me. Sure, KotOR is successful, but for single-player CRPGs, which is a different beast altogether, just as classic Call of Cthulhu adventures like "Masks of Nyarlathotep" or "Walker in the Wastes" are nothing like HeroQuest or the hack 'n slash/dungeon crawl of D&D 4e, though they can all be classified as tabletop RPGs. The former adventures are entirely focused on plot and character development, while the latter focuses on monster-slashing and treasure-finding.

 

Besides, for a good setting to place a Star Wars MMO in, you need one that is not too "locked" by estalished canonic events and - given the preference people have for playing jedi or sith - a time when both of those are numerous. KotOR fits neither of those criteria, because a lot has been established about the age in the Tales of the Jedi comic books, the KotOR comic books, and the two games. The sith are also virtually gone in the time between the end of the Old Sith War and when Revan turns to the dark side during the Mandalorian Wars. And by the end of TSL, the jedi are virtually extinct. Of course, you could then set it 100 or 200 years later, but I wouldn't call that KotOR, though it's still obviously the Old Republic.

 

And then there is the fanbase of the games themselves. Raise your hand if you played KotOR games precisely because it was single-player, then raise it again if you don't play MMOs. I know I'd raise my hand both times.

 

I'm still very curious to know what attracted Bioware, famous for their stories, to MMORPGs.

 

What? I$n't it obviou$ what attract$ them?

[Bass-GameMaster]

That was rushed mind you

[Dark_Raven]

It's hardly surprising, I guess. KotOR1 and KotOR2 were single-player RPGs, probably bought mostly by people who like single-player RPGs, so of course many of us would prefer KotOR3 to be the same.

 

I'm still very curious to know what attracted Bioware, famous for their stories, to MMORPGs. Do they have something up their sleeve?

Its an EA thing. Ruin a good company (Bioware) by making it produce lame games and having stupid ideas for future games. Since EA is so sports friendly, they'll make a swoop bike racing game before you know it.

[Magister Lajciak]

How 'bout k3 not being a MMO?

 

Yeah, well, I think the vocal majority want it not be a MMO too...

 

vocal minority

 

 

silent majority is ok with it

 

We don't really know.

 

Yes we do. It is always same thing. Your Average Fan (who is NOT part of message boards) just aren't as rabid as people here.

 

It has been seen over and over again with other games and game franchises.

 

Your average Kotor fan - as even in message boards there are a lot people who love the idea of MMORPG - just doesn't give a ****. He's propably thrilled by the news (if he has even heard about it)

 

 

It is something which always happens at message boads. There'll be epic nerd rage and what not but large masses won't care that much

 

Just a few comments:

 

1) We have heard the voice of the vocal minority that dislikes the idea of a KOTOR MMO, but we heard next to nothing from the silent majority, so we don't know how they will react, though I do agree that it is more likely that they won't care either way.

2) In this internet era, the ratio of the vocal minority to the silent majority might be greater than in the past

3) Hardcore fans act as facilitators and evangelists for games and can thus have an impact on sales that is disproportionate to their numbers

 

{4) Yes, the KOTOR MMO will almost certainly be a financial success regardless of the above, but we can still express our negative feelings towards the idea, because it will 'take over the setting' and thus very likely kill any chance of a single player KOTOR 3}

[Jediphile]

Well, the "silent majority" is a thankful audience, because they will always support the speaker. It's an old politician's trick to speak for the silent majority. For one thing, it gives him power because he represents a majority that has no voice, and second because they will never tell him his assumption about their opinions is wrong - if someone did they would naturally not be silent and thus cannot belong to the silent majority that he represents.

 

But it's always wrong to invoke the silent majority in support of your position, because nobody can know what the silent majority wants. Any of us can safely claim that the silent majority supports our own position on any matter, because it will never tell us otherwise. But doing so is wrong, because the silent majority has chosen to be silent and not have their voices heard. It's like an election - if you stay at home and don't use your right to vote, then you accept and lose your right to complain about who is elected by those who did vote. We may be a minority here, but we are the people who decided to show up and vote, so it is our voices that should count. And the silent majority will accept whatever the outcome will be. They're silent, after all, and so won't be complaining, while the vocal fanbase will be first to or any new game on public boards.

[Guest The Architect]

What? I$n't it obviou$ what attract$ them?

 

Nope, $till can't figure it out.

[Guest The Architect]

I do agree that it's tough luck on the silent majority in say, a political election where voting isn't mandatory where the silent majority don't get what they want because they didn't bother to show up and vote in the first place and basically neglected to use the power they had to get what they wanted.

 

Of course, since the majority is silent you wouldn't know if they got what they wanted or not because they're silent, as Jediphile stated, but in that case those who don't vote don't care because if they cared they'd vote. But a video game company run message board is an entirely different kettle of fish because there's plenty of fans out there who do not show up and join the vocal minority on the message boards.

 

The difference between that and a political election is, they're fans, they do care, and not joining a message board to voice their opinions is by no means an indication that they do not care, for there are a number of reasons apart from not caring for why one doesn't join a message board, such as lack of awareness as to where to look on the internet to vent said opinions, or choosing not to fit it into their lifestyle schedule.

 

So in the case of a video game company they've got to prioritise what's in their best interests in a profitable sense over what the majority of the fans want, even though customer service is the most important thing in business; however it's difficult to know what the silent majority want, however instead of ignoring them and listening to the vocal minority, by no means a representation of the silent majority, they just have to roll with what they think, but if they listen to us, and I'm sure they do, then cool. Just because not everything goes our way doesn't mean they don't.

 

Why was random n00b's post deleted? I failed to see the offensiveness of it; what'd he do wrong?

Edited August 26, 2008 by The Architect

[Xard]

How 'bout k3 not being a MMO?

 

Yeah, well, I think the vocal majority want it not be a MMO too...

 

vocal minority

 

 

silent majority is ok with it

 

We don't really know.

 

Yes we do. It is always same thing. Your Average Fan (who is NOT part of message boards) just aren't as rabid as people here.

 

It has been seen over and over again with other games and game franchises.

 

Your average Kotor fan - as even in message boards there are a lot people who love the idea of MMORPG - just doesn't give a ****. He's propably thrilled by the news (if he has even heard about it)

 

 

It is something which always happens at message boads. There'll be epic nerd rage and what not but large masses won't care that much

 

Just a few comments:

 

1) We have heard the voice of the vocal minority that dislikes the idea of a KOTOR MMO, but we heard next to nothing from the silent majority, so we don't know how they will react, though I do agree that it is more likely that they won't care either way.

2) In this internet era, the ratio of the vocal minority to the silent majority might be greater than in the past

3) Hardcore fans act as facilitators and evangelists for games and can thus have an impact on sales that is disproportionate to their numbers

 

{4) Yes, the KOTOR MMO will almost certainly be a financial success regardless of the above, but we can still express our negative feelings towards the idea, because it will 'take over the setting' and thus very likely kill any chance of a single player KOTOR 3}

 

1) Of course, because they aren't part of message boards like this. And even in here - in air that is clearly unhospital to the stance - posts that like the idea aren't few. See Albion's post in 2nd page

 

2) Nope. Internet is prime example of the vocal minority/silent majority rule because it is so easy to make a lot of noise in the internet.

 

For example here in Finland there has been a lot of talking in magazines about legalization of gay marriage. Now if one looks at feedback pages few rampant religious nutjobs dominate the page - yet opinion polls show that they're minority.

 

3) Fallout fans and Fallout 3. Nuff said

 

4) Aye, and I'm in the same boat with you guys. I want K3 and not MMO, but I'm not naive enough to think that because people here are acting like angry **** it means a lot in grand scale

[SteveThaiBinh]

Do you think Bioware surrendered all control over what it does and does not work on when it allowed EA to purchase it? I suspect (though of course we can never be sure) that they're working on a Kotor MMO because they want to be. Now that might be because they love the setting and chose the MMO rather than see it handed over to someone else, but it might also be that they have a plan to make it more appealing to single-player RPG fans.

[qt3.14159]

Also, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure BioWare had started working on this project long before the EA buyout.

[Jediphile]

Do you think Bioware surrendered all control over what it does and does not work on when it allowed EA to purchase it? I suspect (though of course we can never be sure) that they're working on a Kotor MMO because they want to be.

 

To be fair, I think so too, since the deal between LA and Bioware was made before EA bought Bioware, if memory serves me correctly. If that is the case, then EA did not push anything.

 

Now that might be because they love the setting and chose the MMO rather than see it handed over to someone else, but it might also be that they have a plan to make it more appealing to single-player RPG fans.

 

If they loved the setting, why did they refuse to do KotOR2 when asked to and instead suggested Obsidian do the sequel? I think they wanted to break into the MMO business where the big bucks of monthly subscription fees are, and with a Star Wars stamp on it, they would be sure to have at least some success with it.

[DAWUSS]

It's hardly surprising, I guess. KotOR1 and KotOR2 were single-player RPGs, probably bought mostly by people who like single-player RPGs, so of course many of us would prefer KotOR3 to be the same.

 

I'm still very curious to know what attracted Bioware, famous for their stories, to MMORPGs. Do they have something up their sleeve?

Its an EA thing. Ruin a good company (Bioware) by making it produce lame games and having stupid ideas for future games. Since EA is so sports friendly, they'll make a swoop bike racing game before you know it.

 

That is actually a great idea. You could play in different eras and have different racers... Maybe race as Cassie Mateil, Queedle, Requel Sorm, or some other swoop racer in the JCW era; race as Blizz Pinnix, Birgidan Nasalle, some BARC trooper, or someone else in the CW/CGW era... You could race in events like the Keren City Street Race, Ahto City Swoop Race, among numerous other events.

 

 

... but that's another game, not KOTOR III

[Xard]

Now that might be because they love the setting and chose the MMO rather than see it handed over to someone else, but it might also be that they have a plan to make it more appealing to single-player RPG fans.

 

If they loved the setting, why did they refuse to do KotOR2 when asked to and instead suggested Obsidian do the sequel? I think they wanted to break into the MMO business where the big bucks of monthly subscription fees are, and with a Star Wars stamp on it, they would be sure to have at least some success with it.

 

Because they couldn't care less about working on license games anymore?

 

That's all reason they needed

[Jediphile]

Now that might be because they love the setting and chose the MMO rather than see it handed over to someone else, but it might also be that they have a plan to make it more appealing to single-player RPG fans.

 

If they loved the setting, why did they refuse to do KotOR2 when asked to and instead suggested Obsidian do the sequel? I think they wanted to break into the MMO business where the big bucks of monthly subscription fees are, and with a Star Wars stamp on it, they would be sure to have at least some success with it.

 

Because they couldn't care less about working on license games anymore?

 

That's all reason they needed

 

Yes, I know that Bioware said back then they wanted to work on their own IP, but if that was the reason, then why are they working on a Star Wars project now? Somehow that doesn't quite add up. Something has changed there.

[Xard]

erm, you know people change their opinions and ideas?

 

That (too) is all what happened

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

EA actually has good projects this time of year. They're actually looking less and less like the rich **** of the gaming industry.