Bioware/EA's KotOR Online leaked

[Kools]

Is 100,00 a lot? I mean is that enough users for the developers and publishers to be making a steady profit?

 

It all of course depends on how much the developer sent on making the MMOG. I used to know the typical number a simple MMOG would cost... but I am drawing a blank.

 

Here's some info (While not 100% accurate, it is quite extensive) on subscriber numbers. If any are interested.

 

http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html

 

 

lol that chart is ridiculous if accurate. Any developer who would try to go after WoW is just throwing money down the toilet. None of the others are even remotely playing in the same ballpark. Not even close.

 

The chart matches pretty closely with actual company-released subscriber numbers, so I'd say it's fairly accurate.

 

The thing about WoW is, it was a remarkable, totally unexpected success. MMOs were trending in the 200K range at the absolute upper limit before WoW came along, and nobody can really say why it's so ridiculously popular. That's part of the beauty of it. MMO devs don't really know for sure what's going to be a hit, and even if it's not a runaway, lightning in a bottle success, you're still pulling in $15 a month from 350K people, which is a lot of cash, in the grand scheme of things. MMOs can be profitable at far fewer subscribers than that; there's some German cyberpunk one out there that only has like 6K, at last count, and it's apparently pulling in enough cash to keep afloat. All depends on how expensive the game was, and how expensive it is to maintain.

 

AoC shipped 1 million units upon release, and sold anywhere between 500K and almost all of them. I think actual subscriber base has dropped drastically since then - it's kind of crap at endgame - but still, they probably recouped their development costs and made a little, but who knows? Either way, that's a game out of a studio with a far, far worse reputation than Bioware, the name of which alone is going to sell a hell of a lot of boxes.

 

The only problem is that it makes a single play KotOR III rather unlikely. As others have pointed out, the release of a Warcraft IV RTS would be extremely suprising, simply because WoW's storyline is still going on - though at this point it's more like really bad fan fiction - redundancy alert - than anything else. It's probably going to be a great game, but it won't be a great story.

 

I like MMOs, and I'll undoubtedly play the KotOR one, but I'm pretty disappointed the storyline's not going to get the trilogy format it deserves. Then again, it's gonna kick ass to tank with a Jedi.

[steelfiredragon]

not the smartest of ideas this game.

 

 

A bit of warning bioware, something EA did to the Ultima series, when UO was made, it became the deathknell to the ultima series. every Ultima game planned since has been canned.

 

I could foretell the same about KotoR online, but being its a Lucas IP, that may not happen, but as a warning to be cautious...

 

 

oh and I wont buy it or play it, I would buy kotor3

[Kaftan Barlast]

I think any hope of a continuation of the Kotor series died when Lucasarts dropped their in-house development of K3. Instead we get SW:force unleashed for christmas this year.

 

 

 

And as I havent tried an MMO yet that was actually fun to play, as opposed to being a grindfeast in the hunt for swet loot, Im not even slightly thinking of buying this crap.

[Jaesun]

A bit of warning bioware, something EA did to the Ultima series, when UO was made, it became the deathknell to the ultima series. every Ultima game planned since has been canned.

 

It was not all EA's doing alone. Even Gariott and Spektor admitted it was also the fault of Origin themselves, and other matters.

 

There is a very long read here.

 

I am not at all happy that Bioware is now apart of EA, but I am a bit concerned. But I guess we shall see.

 

CAN I PLAY A JEDI!!??

[Hurlshort]

It will be interesting to see how they handle the Jedi question. Maybe if they offer a variety of different Jedi classes, they will have more success than SWG. I'm almost in the camp that thinks the player shouldn't be able to be a Jedi, but I understand that would probably hurt sales.

 

The game must be years away though, given the hush hush nature of the announcement. We could actually see KotOR III before KotOR Online. A MMO development cycle is a heck of a lot longer than KotOR. Warcraft III came out fairly close to WoW, so maybe they've got a similiar plan in the works.

[Moatilliatta]

WoW came out three years after Warcraft 3 and two years after the expansion pack.

[random n00b]

Anecdotal evidence is hardly enough to assert a general rule.

 

A KotOR MMO failing could mean trouble for the franchise, but otherwise there's no way to know if a MMO would preclude a third installment.

[Hurlshort]

WoW came out three years after Warcraft 3 and two years after the expansion pack.

 

Yikes, I guess it did. I think I was just slow to buy it, now that you mention it I did buy the Battle Chest version a few month before WoW came out.

 

But WoW did have a very long development time, I think they were in closed beta for almost two years. There mut have been some overlap for the projects.

[steelfiredragon]

A bit of warning bioware, something EA did to the Ultima series, when UO was made, it became the deathknell to the ultima series. every Ultima game planned since has been canned.

 

It was not all EA's doing alone. Even Gariott and Spektor admitted it was also the fault of Origin themselves, and other matters.

 

There is a very long read here.

 

I am not at all happy that Bioware is now apart of EA, but I am a bit concerned. But I guess we shall see.

 

CAN I PLAY A JEDI!!??

thats true, however as i understood it, it was EA's decision to make the game in the first place, their idea to make UO2 after 2 years , even make that online UX and then cancel it too.

 

when all said and done, keep the IP to yourself, sell the distribution rights.

 

just because you can, doesnt mean you should, and they should not have

[Deadly_Nightshade]

They can take this MMO and stick it up their ass.

[random n00b]

You know that just ain't gonna happen.

[Dark_Raven]

Oh I think they will. They will enjoy it greatly.

[random n00b]

...I don't want to know.

[Bokishi]

Just add some lube and anything goes

[Tigranes]

Every time someone announces an MMO, I think to myself, maybe they'll change the way it works this time. They do, sometimes, but usually not very much. You've still got your levelled grinding, you've still got your PVP and PVE raids, you've still got your clickfest abilities (though that, I understand, is changing). Wonder what contribution this one can make into the mix? Or are we just going to have 500 people clicking their lightsabres on stormtroopers and htiting hotkeys for Force Brouhaha?

[random n00b]

Wonder what contribution this one can make into the mix? Or are we just going to have 500 people clicking their lightsabres on stormtroopers and htiting hotkeys for Force Brouhaha?

As far as I've seen, MMOs place more emphasis on planning characters than playing them. Optimal characters are invariably one-trick poneys, as they are extremely specialized in one task - in class-based MMOs, every class has a very well defined role to fill, and trying to step outside that role, while fun, often results in a character that isn't up to par when it comes to endgame content. This is done on purpose, to keep grinders interested - endgame is purposefully designed as a timesink that requires maxed-out characters to have any chance at succeeding.

 

I'm rambling, but what I mean is that, if KotOR MMO is as heavily stat-based and role-focused as most MMOs, then yes. It will be a matter of hitting hotkeys. The learning process and mid-game content, as well as the occassional raid can be pretty entertaining, though.

[Azure79]

Force Brouhaha should be an actual power.

 

I wonder what the time frame will be for this game. I mean, if it happens just after K2, aren't most of the Jedi dead? I suppose they can make it about rebuilding the Order and all that.

 

I agree that K1's story did wrap up well, but then Obs opened up the story to new possibilities and I want the chance for devs to explore the true sith, Revan's backup plan, the Exile's wild chase into the stars and the epic showdown. I don't want the ultimate sith lord or whatever to be just a 'monster' that is farmed for loot. Ah well. Maybe Bioware can pull of a whole new MMO paradigm.

[Hurlshort]

I'm waiting for the MMO that implements aging and crippling injuries. You level a character up, he or she reaches their prime, and then they start going downhill. But it's ok, you can retire and start a new generation, and maye leave them some neat trait or item to help them on their way to adulthood.

 

The nice thing about it is the levelling treadmill would be gone, or at least improved. Right now you level and level and level. Then you either raid or you PvP. Developers focus all their energies on an endgame instead of expanding the early levels of the game.

 

Ayways, just a thought. I'm tired of the current treadmill model, but I don't see it changing. People reach level caps too fast, what do you expect developers to do?

[Deadly_Nightshade]

But it's ok, you can retire and start a new generation, and maye leave them some neat trait or item to help them on their way to adulthood.

 

That sort of sounds like the system they are using to transfer users from Guild Wars I to Guild Wars II.

[Tigranes]

As far as I've seen, MMOs place more emphasis on planning characters than playing them. Optimal characters are invariably one-trick poneys, as they are extremely specialized in one task - in class-based MMOs, every class has a very well defined role to fill, and trying to step outside that role, while fun, often results in a character that isn't up to par when it comes to endgame content. This is done on purpose, to keep grinders interested - endgame is purposefully designed as a timesink that requires maxed-out characters to have any chance at succeeding.

 

Interesting, you're probably right. Timesinks and moneysinks *are* the great techniques of MMOs.

 

I'm not about to dismiss the whole formula they've got going right now, since I'm playing Diablo 2 at the moment, but I certainly wouldn't mind seeing more involved and complex combat. I mean, we've had 50 years of melee combat where you just click on the enemy to attack!

[Gorgon]

But there was Kotor 2

 

This means very bad news for Kotor 3

 

Blizzard has continued the Warcraft lore and Warcraft's story in WoW, meaning Warcraft 4 in gaming world as it is never going to happen

 

Really, there's no reason for K3 anymore. Story gets continued in another, much weaker form

Warcraft 3 was a pretty boring RTS. Now I haven't played more than 40 minuites of Wow in my life, but it's hard to argue that it hasn't been a huge draw for a lot of people.

 

As for Kotor going MOG, I guess I'll hold off judgment until they have actually screwed anything up.

[qt3.14159]

Interesting, you're probably right. Timesinks and moneysinks *are* the great techniques of MMOs.

 

I'm not about to dismiss the whole formula they've got going right now, since I'm playing Diablo 2 at the moment, but I certainly wouldn't mind seeing more involved and complex combat. I mean, we've had 50 years of melee combat where you just click on the enemy to attack!

 

More involved and complex combat? Have you played WoW? Have you played PvP WoW? Ok, I play a priest, so that probably changes things a little bit, but combat in WoW is extremely complex. To be really good at it you have to be able to think fast, know how to react quickly and be able to throw everything you've got at your opponent.

 

The Arena system in WoW is some of the most fun I've had in a game, even if I do suck at it... :D

[Tigranes]

Well, I've already admitted that I'm a bit behind on MMOs. I've actually never played WoW, only seen it an action.

 

But since I'm probably wrong already, I might as well talk more and reveal my complete ignorance. We've had combat that required quick thinking, quick reactions, tactical management, etc, as early as Diablo 2 (and earlier? I wouldn't know). Even if the barbarian could sit there and attack people by just spam-clicking on them. It wasn't my intent to suggest that the current model is mind-numbingly boring and unthinking crap (I wouldn't know), actually. I was sort of advocating a specific kind of complexity and tactics, if you know what I mean. We already have resouce management and other stuff, but we don't really have, say, more visceral forms of targeting (probably due to the problems you'd have with animation and lag), for example. You can have a monk with 50 different types of Quivering Fist and stuff, which we do in, say, Guild Wars, but I'd really like to see combo-based moves and stuff like that to simulate melee combat, than basically "Spells Disguised as Martial Abilities".

[random n00b]

Combat in AoC is fairly complex in the way you describe, or so I've heard.

[Volourn]

What's weird is that the MMORPG and the LA project are listed as two different things on the BIO homepage. It doens't make sense that it looks like they're the same. Illogical nonsense.