Magister Lajciak Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Well, WoW is the 800 pound gorilla, but if any franchise has the chance of having a similar appeal it is Star Wars and especially KOTOR. Of course, it is far from certain that it will reach that level of profitability, but it has huge earnings potential. The fact that I will not be buying it or playing it or that I would far prefer KOTOR 3 was made is, of course, another matter. Look, I don't know how large the KOTOR fanbase is, but it's certainly not WOW like size. Just let's be realistic. And being a Star Wars game alone doesn't mean nothing. Star Wars Galaxies, after all, was an utter failure. But as I said, Bioware knows how to make successful and enjoyable games, so that should be the main driving factor why people should get excited. Star Wars + Kotor just means people get easier attention to it, and don't need to be convinced about a new setting etc. Well, I am also assuming that BioWare makes the game compelling for those who like MMOs and will thus attract more of the Star Wars fanbase than the KOTOR titles did... Don't get me wrong - I am not saying it will reach WoW style levels of popularity, but it is the only current franchise that I can even imagine doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 (edited) Well, WoW is the 800 pound gorilla, but if any franchise has the chance of having a similar appeal it is Star Wars and especially KOTOR. Of course, it is far from certain that it will reach that level of profitability, but it has huge earnings potential. The fact that I will not be buying it or playing it or that I would far prefer KOTOR 3 was made is, of course, another matter. Look, I don't know how large the KOTOR fanbase is, but it's certainly not WOW like size. Just let's be realistic. And being a Star Wars game alone doesn't mean nothing. Star Wars Galaxies, after all, was an utter failure. But as I said, Bioware knows how to make successful and enjoyable games, so that should be the main driving factor why people should get excited. Star Wars + Kotor just means people get easier attention to it, and don't need to be convinced about a new setting etc. Well, I am also assuming that BioWare makes the game compelling for those who like MMOs and will thus attract more of the Star Wars fanbase than the KOTOR titles did... Don't get me wrong - I am not saying it will reach WoW style levels of popularity, but it is the only current franchise that I can even imagine doing that. I think it has always been Bioware's mantra to "expand our fanbase, and explore new possibilities etc. bla bla", you know the typical Ray Muzyka optimist there. And that's exactly what they're gonna do: Please existing MMO players (WoW and WAr alike), but at the same time add something new so that MMO-tired people feel the urge to try it out. It has always been that way. Not that I'm personally liking this approach, as I think if Bio would concentrate on hardcore PC RPGs, they'd actually reveil their full potential again (BGs, NWNs). But hey, I'm not the one to make demands. I'm just a Bio slave who buys all their games at day one. And yeah, Star Wars/Kotor will definitively help to get more people attracted, but Bio can't rely on that alone. They also have to make a killer game to compete with WoW. Edited October 5, 2008 by Morgoth Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magister Lajciak Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 (edited) I think we are agreed on the KOTOR MMO potential than, we are just approaching the issue from different angles. Edited October 5, 2008 by Magister Lajciak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 I would be comfortable betting on a KotOR MMO selling a million plus units and maintaining a strong user base for years to come, but could it beat out WoW's numbers? That's tough to say. I think in some ways they have a stronger brand with Star Wars, and a development house that rivals Blizzard on many levels. But Blizzard really seemed to hit on some mystical jackpot. It's kind of like the movie Titanic. It's a good movie, but it had a lot to do with timing that let it become the biggest bock office movie of all time. If the KotOR Online game comes out at a lull in the MMO market, then it has a better chance, but those are hard to predict. Age of Conan probably hit the most recent jackpot there, it came out during a summer where it seemed like a lot of MMOers were looking for a new game. Don't get me wrong, it is a good game that looks nice, but I think if it came out tomorrow it wouldn't sell a million copies. It would face stiff competition from WAR and the expansions for WoW and LotR Online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 "but could it beat out WoW's numbers?" In the end, I doubt this really matters. A MMORPG doens't need WOW type numbers to be successful no more than a SP game needs Sims type numbers to be successful. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 "but could it beat out WoW's numbers?" In the end, I doubt this really matters. A MMORPG doesn't need WOW type numbers to be successful no more than a SP game needs Sims type numbers to be successful. What does that have to do with my question? I didn't ask "Can it be successful without beating WoW's numbers?" Did you notice that you restated what I already said in your second sentence there? Look - "A MMORPG doesn't need WOW type numbers to be successful no more than a SP game needs Sims type numbers to be successful." Mine - "I would be comfortable betting on a KotOR MMO selling a million plus units and maintaining a strong user base for years to come" So thanks for backing me up Volo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 You asked a question, and I was wondering what the point of the question actually is.Whether a KOTOR MMORPG can beat out WOW is irrleevant except those who need bragging rights about stilly stuff like that. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 You asked a question, and I was wondering what the point of the question actually is.Whether a KOTOR MMORPG can beat out WOW is irrleevant except those who need bragging rights about stilly stuff like that. I'm pretty sure the developers and publishers behind the title are interested in whether their title can reach the same numbers that WoW did. This is also the "computer/console" section of the forum, and we talk about games here. The only thing silly is your need to try and moderate what types of questions I ask. Any mainstream MMO that is released is going to face comparisons to the current sales leader. This game is rumored to be developed by a very successful developer and is being published by the 2nd largest publisher in the industry, and it is set in one of the most recognizable fantasy settings around. The chances of it not being successful are pretty slim, in fact that seems like the "sillier" conversation. If you don't want to take part in a discussion about what level of success it will reach, then feel free to not post responses to my questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julianw Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 http://news.softpedia.com/news/Bioware-MMO...ate-84458.shtml I read a similar article a while back, which sadly I couldn't find through google. Apparently, bringing great storytelling to the MMO community is a big goal for Bioware. I recall two key points being mentioned: 1) epic quests and not just stuff like go there, kill those; 2) players' actions having an impact on the world they play in. I am not sure if Kotor MMO can reach Wow like numbers though. Since nowadays everybody wants a piece of Blizzard's fat pocket, the competition will only get more fierce. In the end, it will be the consumers who benefit as companies attempt to draw more players with more enticing games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 2) players' actions having an impact on the world they play in. I cant imagine how this would be possible in an MMO. I mean, one persons actions effecting the game for thousands? "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 2) players' actions having an impact on the world they play in. I cant imagine how this would be possible in an MMO. I mean, one persons actions effecting the game for thousands? The closest I've seen is server wide objectives. Horizons used to have all sorts of building projects, like bridges and tunnels, that required teams of crafters to complete. Once they finished, a new area would open up. LotR Online recently did a similar thing to unlock a new area as well. Also, LotR Online has some separation of areas to give an illusion of making an impact. For example, you start off in a vibrant town, but during the prologue, the town burns down, and once you enter the full game world it is still a burnt ruin. Also, the members of the fellowship are behind certain doors that you can only enter at certain stages, giving the impression that they have moved on at the appropriate time. It's all illusionary though. I don't know how they could really feasibly allow each player a sense that they are accomplishing something unique to their world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 2) players' actions having an impact on the world they play in. I cant imagine how this would be possible in an MMO. I mean, one persons actions effecting the game for thousands? The closest I've seen is server wide objectives. Horizons used to have all sorts of building projects, like bridges and tunnels, that required teams of crafters to complete. Once they finished, a new area would open up. LotR Online recently did a similar thing to unlock a new area as well. Also, LotR Online has some separation of areas to give an illusion of making an impact. For example, you start off in a vibrant town, but during the prologue, the town burns down, and once you enter the full game world it is still a burnt ruin. Also, the members of the fellowship are behind certain doors that you can only enter at certain stages, giving the impression that they have moved on at the appropriate time. It's all illusionary though. I don't know how they could really feasibly allow each player a sense that they are accomplishing something unique to their world. Thats a good point, the creation of things. WoW took that approach a few months ago when they opened up a new Blood Elf area, players would complete certain quests to "liberate" the new town and open up its vendors. It obviously couldnt work wrt destroying a boss/structure/dungeon, etc... "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julianw Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I seem to recall teh guy at Bioware gave some rough example on how they plan to implement their mmo. While googling information on the Kotor mmo again, I came across this that might be of interest to Hurlshot: http://kotaku.com/359133/bioware-talks-mmo. "We joke that we're happy to accept half to two-thirds of the WOW market." I am not sure that counts as trashtalk in the gaming industry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 It will also be interesting to see how many users WoW still has in 3-5 years, when this game will likely be released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julianw Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Ok, I finally found the article I was looking for after 20 minutes of online surfing. http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3155486 This one has some more content, so you guys can judge for yourselves. I am late for work now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=20532 LucasArts' and BioWare's long-awaited, much-discussed joint development project -- widely speculated to be an MMO set in the Star Wars universe circa BioWare's own Knights of the Old Republic -- will be revealed to the press October 21, according to an invitation sent out to media outlets including Gamasutra. It is likely that the official announcement will come shortly after the October 21 press reveal held at LucasArts' San Francisco offices; events of this nature are frequently subject to a media embargo. The postcard, which proclaims "The wait is over" and promises "the official unveiling of the game that's been rumored about for years," makes no explicit reference to Star Wars. It is branded with the LucasArts and BioWare logos and depicts floating robots and hooded figures in futuristic interior locations reminiscent of the sci-fi franchise. The alleged existence of a KOTOR-themed MMO is considered one of the industry's worst-kept secrets, with BioWare parent Electronic Arts' CEO John Riccitiello essentially confirming the title's existence. Riccitiello called the BioWare/LucasArts effort "quite possibly the most anticipated game, full stop, for the industry," before acknowledging it as a KOTOR MMO. Development of the joint project is being handled at BioWare's Austin studio, created specifically for MMO development. The anticipation bar is rising... Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Help me out here people. I get the vibe that KOTOR is fundamentally different from SW Galaxies. What is the difference between the two? Why would a KOTOR MMO succeed where SWG tanked? Isnt it all the same game universe? "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Help me out here people. I get the vibe that KOTOR is fundamentally different from SW Galaxies. What is the difference between the two? Why would a KOTOR MMO succeed where SWG tanked? Isnt it all the same game universe? The one is from Bioware, the other sucked. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 So you feel it was the product and not the setting that doomed SWG? Also, having not played KOTOR, isnt it set in an earlier era then the Star Wars we all know from the movies? "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qt3.14159 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Being set during the movie timeline *really* limited what they could do with SWG. I played it some and it was fun enough, but I never really managed to get into it... probably because it didn't run very well on my computer as much as anything. I heard, though that SOE ran SWG into the ground, badly. So I think most Star Wars fans are looking for any SW MMO that's NOT run by Sony. Personally, I'll try it. I love Star Wars and enjoy MMOs. But I don't think it would ever fill the empty spot left by the waiting for KOTOR 3. Anybody here catch that? All I understood was 'very'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 So you feel it was the product and not the setting that doomed SWG? Also, having not played KOTOR, isnt it set in an earlier era then the Star Wars we all know from the movies? As I said in a previous post, a setting can help to attract people, but you still need to make a killer game to be succesful in the MMO market. Star Wars Galaxies had the Star Wars bonus, but ultimately failed because it was a crap game. It's really simple. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_i_am Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 2) players' actions having an impact on the world they play in. I cant imagine how this would be possible in an MMO. I mean, one persons actions effecting the game for thousands? See Eve. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadly_Nightshade Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 2) players' actions having an impact on the world they play in. I cant imagine how this would be possible in an MMO. I mean, one persons actions effecting the game for thousands? See Eve. But isn't Eve Online purely an open-world MMO and not a story-driven one? "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 2) players' actions having an impact on the world they play in. I cant imagine how this would be possible in an MMO. I mean, one persons actions effecting the game for thousands? See Eve. Can you give me an example? "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Eve is a very interesting MMO and it departs from the standard conventions, but I'm not sure if it has a wide enough appeal. In many ways it's like an economic simulator, and I don't think it can break free of it's niche market with that type of game play. But I haven't played enough of it to say for certain, I just played the free trial. SWG really did a bad job of capturing the setting. The worlds were often bland an uninspired, and then you'd come upon these crazy player built towns that looked like they were built by inmates at an insane asylum. They did have a hardcore audience though, particularly because it took hardcore players to reach much of the content, but they tried to switch to casual and lost their hardcore gamers while never gaining many casual ones. I had a blast running around as a Stormtrooper though. I managed to get the full suit before I quit. Meeting Darth Vader was a treat too, he's really a pretty nice guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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