Dragon Age

[RangerSG]

3d faces in RPGs are at best bad and at worst horrible. Oblivion, NWN2, KotOR, TSL. I don't know that there's been one RPG I've seen since 3d graphics came into play that has had decent character animation in general, and even tolerable head/face/hair graphics. And it's not the tech that's the problem, IMHO. It's the fixation by developers today on "realistic looking" characters in RPGs.

[Humodour]

Looks awesome. What you talkin' 'bout, Willis?

 

Seconded. But then, mkreku said similar about the Dragon Age trailer, which I found was also graphically acceptable.

 

I mean, come on mkreku, do you really want to encourage the cult of graphics? Perhaps graphics have gotten to a point where they are sufficiently detailed that improvements can be made, but it's not worth the development time/resources which could be better spent on story and gameplay?

 

Graphics can't improve at an exponential (or even linear) rate forever; graphics and processor hardware is slowing down in improvements, and once it hits the wall, game graphics will soon follow. I hope you won't be saying "Graphics look ****! They're 4 years old." then. I've certainly noticed a trend towards ever less stunning/amazing graphical improvements over the years (i.e. things look better all the time, but the margin by which they look better gets smaller all the time).

 

It's particularly interesting because many observers have noted that Moore's law is somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

As for what Ranger said... well, yeah that's a different kettle of fish. I'd agree with him for things like Oblivion because it's somewhat shallow, but dark-themed games it doesn't seem like a youthful, beautiful character would really suit. (Making a character look pretty and making a character look graphically aesthetic are disparate.)

 

Edit: What am I smoking. I thought this was the Hinterland thread. Well, point remains, although now mkreku is getting angry about one game's graphics instead of two.

Edited July 12, 2008 by Krezack

[RangerSG]

Looks awesome. What you talkin' 'bout, Willis?

 

Seconded. But then, mkreku said similar about the Dragon Age trailer, which I found was also graphically acceptable.

 

I mean, come on mkreku, do you really want to encourage the cult of graphics? Perhaps graphics have gotten to a point where they are sufficiently detailed that improvements can be made, but it's not worth the development time/resources which could be better spent on story and gameplay?

 

Graphics can't improve at an exponential (or even linear) rate forever; graphics and processor hardware is slowing down in improvements, and once it hits the wall, game graphics will soon follow. I hope you won't be saying "Graphics look ****! They're 4 years old." then. I've certainly noticed a trend towards ever less stunning/amazing graphical improvements over the years (i.e. things look better all the time, but the margin by which they look better gets smaller all the time).

 

It's particularly interesting because many observers have noted that Moore's law is somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

As for what Ranger said... well, yeah that's a different kettle of fish. I'd agree with him for things like Oblivion because it's somewhat shallow, but dark-themed games it doesn't seem like a youthful, beautiful character would really suit. (Making a character look pretty and making a character look graphically aesthetic are disparate.)

 

Edit: What am I smoking. I thought this was the Hinterland thread. Well, point remains, although now mkreku is getting angry about one game's graphics instead of two.

 

Dark Fantasy can't have beautiful characters?

 

Jaime and Cersei Lannister? in ASoIaF? Littlefinger's pet Stark in the same series?

Apsalar in the Malazan Book of the Fallen?

Pretty much any of the female characters in Glen Cook's "Tyranny of the Night" (and try to get darker than that.)

 

I don't buy that logic. But aside from that, I'm not saying 'everyone' needs to look young and beautiful. I'm saying that the choice should be there to BE that. But it takes a half an hour or more these days to make an even 'passable' looking PC in the typical fantasy. Most of which are not "dark fantasies" anyway. Oblivion was supposedly darker in mood than the NWN2 OC. Not much darker, in theory, than Hell unloosed on earth. Though I'll agree Bethsoft missed the mark.

 

What's really interesting is Bioware promised that the 3d character animations used for DA would be so good that we wouldn't care about those painted portraits of old. Looking at these, I'm inclined to say, "oh really"?

[Volourn]

The graphics are awesome. Plain, and simple. the character mdoels look great. That's a fact jack. I don't care if the characters aren't supermodel pretty. It's good that they are 'realistic'. Nothing drab about them. Period.

[mkreku]

I'm not angry, I am underwhelmed and disappointed. And it's not the graphics engine or the amount of polygons that's the problem in this instance (and it's impossible to tell anything about them from this teaser anyhow), it's the art direction. I honestly think it blows. It's like they've gotten the worst of two worlds since it's both horribly generic and aesthetically challenged.

[Pop]

It looked like the Witcher, which does not bode well in any way at all.

[Musopticon?]

It looks nothing like the Witcher, which is precisely the problem. Witcher did low fantasy great, it had an airy and vaguely east-european milieu over a fantasy backdrop and tried to stay down-to-earth with it's clothing, colours, etc. The only ones who wore plate mail were officers, peasants were grimy and had missing teeth, and so on, just about the only exception was Trish, but that was a reflection of the character and not a flaw.

 

This is...well, it's still high fantasy, this time with a brown palette. It's like someone took Oblivion and smeared dung over everyone.

[Pidesco]

This is...well, it's still high fantasy, this time with a brown palette. It's like someone took Oblivion and smeared dung over everyone.

 

Wouldn't that be Morrowind?

[Xard]

Morrowinf had art direction

[Wrath of Dagon]

Don't see what's generic about it. It's always been medieval-inspired fantasy, the trailer fits into that, that's all.

[SteveThaiBinh]

The faces look fine, but then I'm currently playing Oblivion so Cliff Richard looks fine to me. The facial expressions could have done with showing a little more fear, perhaps, but we don't know the characters so perhaps the engine can handle that but just didn't need to in this case. It's hard to judge the colours at night, but fantasy worlds should for the most part be quite pretty, and I hope Bioware doesn't forget this.

 

On the whole, the trailer doesn't show many of the things that matter to me in a game (few trailers do, really), so who can say at this stage?

[SteveThaiBinh]

This is...well, it's still high fantasy, this time with a brown palette. It's like someone took Oblivion and smeared dung over everyone.

 

Wouldn't that be Morrowind?

No game has ever been browner.

 

Seriously, even bleak and gritty settings are allowed to have green trees!

[theslug]

I had hopes for dragon age but the trailer definitely looked like s on a s covered shingle. Even though it was all cg and cinematic I have a feeling it's going to blow when they release game footage but I guess we'll see in a few days whether or not that's true. I've enjoyed the last couple of games bioware has put out but I think they really missed their mark on this one. They should just stick to console.

[newc0253]

jesus, i never thought i'd end up defending anything to do with DA in this thread but some of you folk need to lighten up.

 

seriously, the graphics look fine. nothing groundbreaking or otherwise astonishing, but the art direction recalls the look of BG and PS:T (the rendered bits), which ain't a bad look for Bio to be aiming for with DA frankly.

 

i agree that the Witcher has set a high bar in this department. So did Oblivion, except when it came to anything with two legs. But i think whatever DA's look proves to be, it won't be limited to a bunch of guys wearing muddy platemail in torchlight...

[Musopticon?]

But i think whatever DA's look proves to be, it won't be limited to a bunch of guys wearing muddy platemail in torchlight...

Hahhah, yeah. It's way too early to judge anything.

 

It's just that after 5 years the first glimpse into the game felt a bit underwhelming.

[GhostofAnakin]

I take it it'd be way too early to ask about the system specs for this game?

[Wrath of Dagon]

Yes, that gets asked regularly, but they won't talk about it until they make an official announcement, which will likely be when they're done optimizing, i.e. close to release.

Edited July 13, 2008 by Wrath of Dagon

[Volourn]

"Witcher did low fantasy great"

 

Wicther is overrated. Just another KOTOR. Gets way too praise for absolutely no reason. A decent game that is embarrasing to read about in a thread dedicated to an AWESOME DA teaser.

[Pop]

It looks nothing like the Witcher, which is precisely the problem. Witcher did low fantasy great, it had an airy and vaguely east-european milieu over a fantasy backdrop and tried to stay down-to-earth with it's clothing, colours, etc. The only ones who wore plate mail were officers, peasants were grimy and had missing teeth, and so on, just about the only exception was Trish, but that was a reflection of the character and not a flaw.

 

This is...well, it's still high fantasy, this time with a brown palette. It's like someone took Oblivion and smeared dung over everyone.

In that case, low fantasy blows.

[Musopticon?]

It looks nothing like the Witcher, which is precisely the problem. Witcher did low fantasy great, it had an airy and vaguely east-european milieu over a fantasy backdrop and tried to stay down-to-earth with it's clothing, colours, etc. The only ones who wore plate mail were officers, peasants were grimy and had missing teeth, and so on, just about the only exception was Trish, but that was a reflection of the character and not a flaw.

 

This is...well, it's still high fantasy, this time with a brown palette. It's like someone took Oblivion and smeared dung over everyone.

In that case, low fantasy blows.

Well, I would have preferred if they had done away with the Elves and Dwarves shtick altogether, like SoIaF, and that undead and monsters weren't so overabundant, but no setting is perfect. Ultimately, it comes down to preferences, and mine are with the Witcher.

[Humodour]

"Witcher did low fantasy great"

 

Wicther is overrated. Just another KOTOR. Gets way too praise for absolutely no reason. A decent game that is embarrasing to read about in a thread dedicated to an AWESOME DA teaser.

 

Ah Volourn, you're too much.

[Morgoth]

Looks pretty good. I like the gritty Art direction, the armour of the beasts looks very impressive, too.

 

New IP=win

Dark fantasy = win

Bioware = win

Dgaider = win

 

hence

 

Dragon Age =

Edited July 13, 2008 by Morgoth

[Magister Lajciak]

I liked the teaser, though it was very short.

[newc0253]

Wicther is overrated. Just another KOTOR. Gets way too praise for absolutely no reason.

proof, in case anyone needed it, that there's no accounting for a phenomenal absence of taste.

[RangerSG]

You know, I liked KotOR, and I liked Witcher. But I don't see anything in common between the two. And no, there's no accounting for taste. Witcher is what every fantasy RPG publisher right now wants, a unique, believable setting for a quality RPG. It's a bit too twitchy for me to get completely into it. But even with that, there's no denying it's brilliant, believable, and distinct.