BREAKING NEWS: CRYSIS DEVS BAIL OUT! CONSOLES ARE THE FUTURE!

[Krookie]

i've pirated music/movies for ages...am I a leech?

[Hurlshort]

Yes. You are also in High School. The two go hand in hand.

[alanschu]

Because there will always be piracy, and so it can always be blamed. But despite how much piracy allegedly harms those industries, they still make money. This is even more relevant in computer games, which has always dealt with piracy. Since the days of the very first computer games, I've heard this "oh the pirates copy our games - the sky is fallng!!"

 

I am skeptical as to how much money PC game development really makes, especially since PC Exclusive titles seem less common, and many development houses that once supported PC games no longer do.

 

but despite the purported impending doom of computer games, they still evolved into an industry onto its own and a business so successful, it now makes more money than movies do.

 

PC Gaming does not make more money than the movies do, you're talking about the videogame industry in general, which everybody knows the bulk of the revenue today comes from the console game companies. The Crysis developers aren't saying that the piracy of video games is why they made their decision, but the piracy of PC games. As an avid PC gamer that does not feel like PC gaming is going to die, I do feel that PC gaming is on the decline.

[alanschu]

As an aside, to live in denial is to disregard blatant evidence. There's no such thing as blatant evidence to support that piracy = lost sales.

 

Because I am sure that every single person that pirated the game would absolutely not have bought it otherwise

 

The unfortunate thing is that the only company with a vested interest in demonstrating that piracy can result in lost sales are the companies themselves, which means if they ever do any type of study on it, people just casually dismiss it.

 

I know that there are people out there with the idea of "Why pay for it when I don't have to?" because I actually live with one. That's anecdote unfortunately, so you can casually dismiss at your leisure. If you don't know of anybody that actually feels like that, then I'd wager you live a rather isolationist lifestyle, or you are in fact ignoring the blatant evidence. Especially since you only need ONE to show that piracy = lost sales (even if it's just one lost sale).

[Kaftan Barlast]

Well, once they find a way to shut down major torrent sites, we will see a drop in piracy that you wouldnt believe. We have the "scene" pirates, those are way too clever to ever get rid off, but they are such a small group that theyre not really doing any damage. The group that does the damage is the average guy who sends his xbox to get chipped, and then goes to the pirate bay to easily download anything he wants. Once you take away the option of "casual piracy" you've defeated the threat of piracy. People have been trying for years and years to stop piracy in the wrong end without success, its not the guy cracking the software thats doing the damage, its the people who makes it possible for normal people to download it and use it.

[astr0creep]

The only reason why console games aren't pirated as much as PC games is the difficulty in doing so.

 

You can't just download a PS3 game, crack it and play. Your console needs to be chipped at least, which is already harder and more expensive than pirating a PC game.

 

But it's only a matter of time. When PC gaming dies out (which I doubt) console game piracy will rise.

 

It is inevitable.

 

 

I would even say that the only way to limit console piracy is too support PC gaming, if only to divert the attention of pirates to a more "easy" target.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Well, I will write more later, but just to jump in here - I have cracked games and downloaded music, but only if I have already bought the titles. For instance, I play a "cracked" version of Bloodlines that simply has a different exe that makes it so you do not have to have the disk inserted while playing - thus preventing wear and tear on a disc that is no longer being produced. I still have to install from the original CDs -which I have copied to protect the originals, just as I did with my other rare/old games- and the only people who I have given the crack to already own a copy and just wanted to play without having to carry around the disks (especially those of use who play on laptops, it's a bitch carrying around a bunch of CDs that could break or get stolen). As for the music, it's a similar situation - although I mostly rip it off the original discs unless they are in such bad shape that they cannot be played.

[Krookie]

You're still stealing then, you should have bought two copies.

[Pop]

The only reason why console games aren't pirated as much as PC games is the difficulty in doing so.

 

You can't just download a PS3 game, crack it and play. Your console needs to be chipped at least, which is already harder and more expensive than pirating a PC game.

 

But it's only a matter of time. When PC gaming dies out (which I doubt) console game piracy will rise.

 

It is inevitable.

 

 

I would even say that the only way to limit console piracy is too support PC gaming, if only to divert the attention of pirates to a more "easy" target.

With greater console connectivity it's become easier to bitchslap console pirates. The only way you'd be able to pirate console games is by keeping your console off of the network, and if, in the future, they start doing a Service Pack sort of service where newer games require newer updates to console firmware / software, you make it considerably more difficult to mod consoles while staying under the radar.

[Krookie]

The only reason why console games aren't pirated as much as PC games is the difficulty in doing so.

 

You can't just download a PS3 game, crack it and play. Your console needs to be chipped at least, which is already harder and more expensive than pirating a PC game.

 

But it's only a matter of time. When PC gaming dies out (which I doubt) console game piracy will rise.

 

It is inevitable.

 

 

I would even say that the only way to limit console piracy is too support PC gaming, if only to divert the attention of pirates to a more "easy" target.

With greater console connectivity it's become easier to bitchslap console pirates. The only way you'd be able to pirate console games is by keeping your console off of the network, and if, in the future, they start doing a Service Pack sort of service where newer games require newer updates to console firmware / software, you make it considerably more difficult to mod consoles while staying under the radar.

 

Especially is you play the game before release. Plenty of people got there Xbox's perma-banned from XBL for playing downloaded games even just one day prior to release.

[Spider]

PC Gaming does not make more money than the movies do, you're talking about the videogame industry in general, which everybody knows the bulk of the revenue today comes from the console game companies. The Crysis developers aren't saying that the piracy of video games is why they made their decision, but the piracy of PC games. As an avid PC gamer that does not feel like PC gaming is going to die, I do feel that PC gaming is on the decline.

 

There is no doubt that PC games are pirated more than Console games. The question here is, of course, what effect that piracy has on sales. Ans as you've said, that is anyone's guess. An alternate explanation could be that since there is simply a bigger market for console games (that is expanding even) it makes more sense to focus resources there than the PC market. Which in turn leads to fewer quality releases on the PC, which leads to fewer games being sold.

 

There is also the fact that games are getting more and more expensive to produce. Since prices aren't going up, this means more units needs to be shipped for each game. This means the customer base needs to be expanding at the same rate as the cost to produce. I'm not sure that it is. The console market, on the other hand, is expanding. So there's that.

 

So the real question is, are the PC exclusive games of note (the hits) selling fewer copies today than they did, say, three years ago? If they are, then it seems likely that piracy is the cause. If they're selling roughly the same, it's not quite as clear cut.

 

As far as lost sales go:

Reflexive did some research on what impact DRM had on their game. It's a casual downloadable game so the numbers may not apply to AAA games, but it's the only study I know of and it's fairly interesting.

 

According to Reflexive, 92% of all people who play their game have pirated it. That's a pretty staggering number, but not news. The interesting part is where they disclose the effectiveness from improving DRM. According to Reflexive, every 1000 copies they managed to keep away from the pirates results in 1 additional sale.

 

Again, how relevant this is to this discussion I don't know. I just thought the numbers were interesting.

 

Here is the article posted at Gamasutra:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17350

 

and a follow-up clarifying certain things:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17408

[Jediphile]

Because there will always be piracy, and so it can always be blamed. But despite how much piracy allegedly harms those industries, they still make money. This is even more relevant in computer games, which has always dealt with piracy. Since the days of the very first computer games, I've heard this "oh the pirates copy our games - the sky is fallng!!"

 

I am skeptical as to how much money PC game development really makes, especially since PC Exclusive titles seem less common, and many development houses that once supported PC games no longer do.

 

Obviously it is preferable to release a game over several platforms, because while you need to program the game for each, you only need to design characters and backgrounds, write music, record voiceacting and develop the plot once.

 

but despite the purported impending doom of computer games, they still evolved into an industry onto its own and a business so successful, it now makes more money than movies do.

 

PC Gaming does not make more money than the movies do, you're talking about the videogame industry in general, which everybody knows the bulk of the revenue today comes from the console game companies. The Crysis developers aren't saying that the piracy of video games is why they made their decision, but the piracy of PC games. As an avid PC gamer that does not feel like PC gaming is going to die, I do feel that PC gaming is on the decline.

 

I never said pc gaming specifically, so kindly do not try to infer that I did. I consistently spoke of the gaming industry, because the history of comptuer gaming goes back way before the pc was a viable platform for computer games. The pc didn't have much piracy in the mid 80s, but the C64 did. After that it was mainly Amiga and Atari ST. And in each case, there were these talks of how piracy would destroy the basis for the new games being produced. But it never happened, and they grew into their own industry instead.

 

Obviously piracy is potentially detrimental to computer games, and while I don't believe the claim that a copied game equals a lost sale by definition, the counterargument is equally unconvincing. Piracy is not a good thing for the industry.

 

And piracy does occur on the consoles too. I'm less certain if it's as widespread as it is on the pc, but I fairly certain that it will be, if games really are produced less for the pc. Bad as it may seem, piracy is just a fact of life in the gaming industry, and it always will be. The idea that consoles are impervious to piracy is ludicrous. The idea that registration over the internet will solve everything is equally self-delusional, because the hackers/crackers/pirates/whatever they are called today always find a way around it. But it does not mean the end of gaming. And franky I doubt pc piracy is the primary reason for the success of consoles. For one thing, buying a console is a lot cheaper than buying a pc. But the games are more expensive, and they are easier to program, because the developers don't have to consider programming that is compatible for multiple soundcards, graphics-chips, and CPU-speed into account, since the specs on various consoles are virtually identical respectively. And since prices tend to be higher, they make more money too. After all, the developers and publishers don't have to worry about Sony selling the PS3 with a loss. It's not their problem. Customers tend to overlook that they pay a little more for games on the consoles. Besides, MS and Sony may even pay devs to release titles exclusively for their system to promote it. No such thing on the pc. And exclusivity can be a great benefit to a console, where games is the only selling point. I'm still miffed that I must buy a PS2 to try the 24 game, for example (not that I'm getting one just to play one game). And if consoles is where the devs see more money, then that's where they will go. It's really quite that simple.

 

In short, pc games sell at a lower price than console games, and so makes less money for the publishers and developers. And sometimes the manufacturers of the consoles will pay publishers and developers to release games for their consoles, making them even more money. Taking that into account, where would you publish your games?

[Jediphile]

You're still stealing then, you should have bought two copies.

 

Nonsense. Buying and paying for games and music gives you the right to consume it privately. If I knew how, I could crack the heck out of every movie, game or cd I ever bought without breaking any rules as long as I don't give copies to other people or share it over the internet.

 

And buying two copies to avoid tear and wear is ludicrous. While I'm sure the companies (and gaming companies are scarcely the worst there) would love that, they would do so only by letting their own money-loving tendency rear its ugly head. For example, if I buy a cd, I can rip the music down to my harddrive because that's how I prefer to listen to it. How are games any different? The customer is ALWAYS right! (Note: A pirate didn't pay and so is not a customer)

[karka]

In Turkey, Crysis is one of the best selling games(Not just PC) of all times. This is mainly because:

 

1- Crytek is originally a Turkish developer. But now, they only have 9 Turkish employees including Yerli Brothers.

2- Crysis comes with full Turkish voice over. Actually, it's the second game that has Turkish voice overs. I really can't remember the name of the first game though.

 

Here, lots of people bought that damn game just to support Crytek as if they really need it.

[Arkan]

You're still stealing then, you should have bought two copies.

 

Nonsense. Buying and paying for games and music gives you the right to consume it privately. If I knew how, I could crack the heck out of every movie, game or cd I ever bought without breaking any rules as long as I don't give copies to other people or share it over the internet.

 

And buying two copies to avoid tear and wear is ludicrous. While I'm sure the companies (and gaming companies are scarcely the worst there) would love that, they would do so only by letting their own money-loving tendency rear its ugly head. For example, if I buy a cd, I can rip the music down to my harddrive because that's how I prefer to listen to it. How are games any different? The customer is ALWAYS right! (Note: A pirate didn't pay and so is not a customer)

 

Me'thinks he was joking

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

YES!

 

Now I don't have to update my computer.

[random n00b]

As an aside, to live in denial is to disregard blatant evidence. There's no such thing as blatant evidence to support that piracy = lost sales.

 

Because I am sure that every single person that pirated the game would absolutely not have bought it otherwise

 

The unfortunate thing is that the only company with a vested interest in demonstrating that piracy can result in lost sales are the companies themselves, which means if they ever do any type of study on it, people just casually dismiss it.

 

I know that there are people out there with the idea of "Why pay for it when I don't have to?" because I actually live with one. That's anecdote unfortunately, so you can casually dismiss at your leisure. If you don't know of anybody that actually feels like that, then I'd wager you live a rather isolationist lifestyle, or you are in fact ignoring the blatant evidence. Especially since you only need ONE to show that piracy = lost sales (even if it's just one lost sale).

No.

 

Smart devs win.

 

Whiners (and you) lose.

 

Game over man, game over!

[Nick_i_am]

Bad PC game sales =/= Lost PC game sales. Nice work not actually backing up your claim.

[random n00b]

Thanks. I'm very proud of myself.

[random n00b]

Seriously now. Do I really have to explain this to you?

 

Stardock's business model success is actually fairly good evidence to support that those that pirate games likely wouldn't buy them if they couldn't steal them. How many people are willing to shell out $40-60 for a piece of software that they don't intend to get the most of (in the form of multiple playthroughs, updates, and extra content)?

 

But yeah, I know you stole a game just to prove me wrong. Whoop dee ****ing do.

[Nick_i_am]

I'm not saying that piracy is the cause of poor PC game sales, i'm just calling you out on the claim that piracy doesn't mean any lost sales at all, unless you live in la-la land.

 

I don't see what your problem with this concept is, nor why you're quite so aggressive about it. It sounds to me like you're just trying to justify being a pirate.

[random n00b]

I'm not saying that piracy is the cause of poor PC game sales, i'm just calling you out on the claim that piracy doesn't mean any lost sales at all, unless you live in la-la land.

As I said, yes. I know you stole a game that you would have bought otherwise just to prove your point. That is statistically relevant how?

 

Who is living in la-la land, again?

 

 

I don't see what your problem with this concept is, nor why you're quite so aggressive about it. It sounds to me like you're just trying to justify being a pirate.

It sounds to me like you're shifting the focus of the discussion from piracy to me to compensate for a lack of substance in your argument.

[Nick_i_am]

Ahhh, so now it's only 'statistically relevant' lost sales, that's cool, you just keep making broad sweeping statements then changing them at your convenience before claiming that other people don't have 'substance in their arguments' for pointing out that your broad sweeping statements are broad sweeping statements.

 

Carry on, carry on.

[random n00b]

So, I make a blanket statement, and you choose to interpret it literally, countering with one of the most brilliant arguments ever to grace these boards, namely:

I've pirated a game I would have otherwise have bought, so that's a lost sale so you fail.

...just because I made the mistake of expressing an idea that is not of the liking of some of the regulars around here.

 

You'll forgive me if I quietly withdraw at this point. The sycophancy and sheer absurdity in the thread are starting to make me feel real stupid for having been goaded into participating thus far.

 

Carry on, carry on.

[Nick_i_am]

Aw, but you're funny