Musopticon? Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 MotB is high fantasy(look up the terminology), but I agree that the distance to ****ing Sword Coast with it's goddamn orc caverns and rogue drows is a refeshing new leaf. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds
jaguars4ever Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 That's pretty much what I mean, Muso. Given that MotB is still in the forgotten realms setting, it technically has to be high fantasy, but its execution distances itself as far as elvenly possible.
Istima Loke Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 What I dislike in DnDish fantasy is how magic is presented. It becomes standardized in such a manner that it renders itself obsolete. Also the way the races (elves, dwarves etc) are presented in the FR is annoying, because they are presented exactly like humans though elves are pompous, dwarves are drunks, halflings are thieves and so on. Different races should be different from each other. Other than that, story-wise and quest-wise I don't think that fantasy games differs from any other genre. I think therefore I am? Could be! Or is it really someone else Who only thinks he's me?
Walsingham Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 I've read E.E. 'Doc' Smith, and I for one am not looking forward to the reign of sci-fi. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.
Xard Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 As far as fantasy RPG's go, I havent seen any new elements in years. It How can it be a no ob build. It has PROVEN effective. I dare you to show your builds and I will tear you apart in an arugment about how these builds will won them. - OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)
Kaftan Barlast Posted December 28, 2007 Author Posted December 28, 2007 Ill have to try the witcher someday to see whos right, but what Ive seen of it yet doesnt exactly fill me with hope. And I get a little ticked-off that it got more votes than Mass Effect for RPG of the year at gamespot MotB is high fantasy(look up the terminology), but I agree that the distance to ****ing Sword Coast with it's goddamn orc caverns and rogue drows is a refeshing new leaf. I think the whole new age shaman-spirit crap is even worse than orcs&goblins. It reminds me of people who believe in the healing power of crystals, have posters of airbrushed indians, and listen to enya and world music all day. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
Walsingham Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 What I dislike in DnDish fantasy is how magic is presented. It becomes standardized in such a manner that it renders itself obsolete. Also the way the races (elves, dwarves etc) are presented in the FR is annoying, because they are presented exactly like humans though elves are pompous, dwarves are drunks, halflings are thieves and so on. Different races should be different from each other. Other than that, story-wise and quest-wise I don't think that fantasy games differs from any other genre. I agree. I get no sense of adventure in most recent games. You may as well be playing whackamole in Jersey. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.
Blarghagh Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 Let's not confuse the genre fantasy with the word fantasy, people. For the purpouse of this thread; fantasy = elves & dragons. As far as fantasy RPG's go, I havent seen any new elements in years. It
Nick_i_am Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 No. I think you want to shoot him down, if you know what I mean. haha, someone's projecting. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
jaguars4ever Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 You should definitely get Witcher, Brother Kaft. Just don't play it on your laptop, 'cause it'll run like ****.
Kaftan Barlast Posted December 28, 2007 Author Posted December 28, 2007 (edited) From the way it looks it should run fine, but are you saying it suffers from the usual NWN performance-hoggery, brother jags? Well, then why are you advocating the death of the genre fantasy rather than a reform? Because that reform would have to be so radical that nothing of the original material would be left. And also because I dislike almost everything about fantasy, from the idea of magic to the childish banality that runs through every aspect of it. Fantasy is very much fairy-stories for immature grownups, and as such it can never ever attain any real depth. Edited December 28, 2007 by Kaftan Barlast DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
jaguars4ever Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 From the way it looks it should run fine, but are you saying it suffers from the usual NWN performance-hoggery, brother jags? Worse. Have you not heard what it does to your system if you attempt to alt-tab? With nwn2 I can at least get some semblance of performance when run at 800x600. But with Witcher... Just make sure you have a bling system, and never ever alt-tab.
Morgoth Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 I don't know about you geezers but I for one am looking forward to Dragon Age and possibly NWX2. It's the stories and history that I love about fantasy-themed games that are crafted very well, and I trust especially Bioware and Obsidian on this one. I agree however that heavy exploitation like the WoW universe (Anime-****) or Oblivion (needs more bloom) can trespass my sensitive borders of good taste quickly. Rain makes everything better.
Gambler Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 What I dislike in DnDish fantasy is how magic is presented. It becomes standardized in such a manner that it renders itself obsolete. Very good observation. Magic existed in myths, legends, folk tales long before fantasy emerged as a genre. It used to represent something mysterious, surprising and inspiring awe. Now it is just a pseudo-rationale for bad plot devices and broken game mechanics. Instead of firing lead bullets from guns, "magicians" fire magic bullets from their fingers. This kind of magic is fake. Tolkien himself wrote in one of his articles that magic is not supposed to be rationalized and systematized.
Kaftan Barlast Posted December 28, 2007 Author Posted December 28, 2007 I think magic is a great destroyer of both logic and plot, here's my fav example of how a "whodunnit" adventure can go wrong in D&D GUARD: Alarm! Alarm! The mayor has been murdered! ADVENTURER: What, again?! CLERIC: Dont worry, I got this. *casts raise dead* MAYOR: Ouch, was I murdered again? ADVENTURER: Yup. Who killed you? MAYOR: This time he wore a mask Im afraid. CLERIC: It's cool, just gather everyone in the town square and Ill cast detect evil. 2 HOURS LATER CLERIC: Let's se *casts detect evil* ..mm, him and him and that owlbear over there. HIM, HIM & OWLBEAR: Bugger! GUARD: Alright, which one of you murdered the mayor? HIM, HIM & OWLBEAR: Not me! CLERIC: *casts spell* The one in the middle is lying. HIM: Fine, I give up. I did it! There, everyone satisfied? MAYOR: Right! Chop his head off! HIM: It's a fair cop. 5 ROUNDS LATER GUARD: Im afraid thats not possible, he has a ring that makes him immune to critical hits. MAYOR: Well, cant you take it off? GUARD: No, Im a fighter and we dont get Sleight of hand as a class skill. HIM: Cant you just put me in jail? MAYOR: No, youll just escape and murder me again ADVENTURER: Well, I have this helmet that makes you change alignment to Lawful Good. We could make him wear it? MAYOR: Excellent! HIM: Oh, poop. I'll never be able to take blackguard as a PC now. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
Tale Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 That would have gone a lot better if the evil guy had been smart enough to cast Misdirection. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Kaftan Barlast Posted December 28, 2007 Author Posted December 28, 2007 Yeah, but he wasnt a spellcaster. Besides, then the cleric could just have cast that thying that makes you see which spells people are using. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
Tale Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 (edited) Besides, then the cleric could just have cast that thying that makes you see which spells people are using. Wouldn't misdirection work against that, as well? And you'd still need the Cleric to prepare his spells, which includes getting permission from his god to use them. The god could easily have said "no, figure it out the hard way. Your mayor got murdered, tough." Edited December 28, 2007 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Slowtrain Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 Kaftan, it appears most of your criticisms are about game design. The only thing that limits fantasy crpgs are the designers behind it. It also appears you don't like fantasy in general. WHich is fine. I don't like sports. But just because I don't like sports doesn't mean that the genre of sports games sucks. It just means I shouldn't play sports games. Or deer hunting games. Or driving games. WHich I don't. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Darque Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 I blame those stupid consoles and the crap they keep producing. Have you even played a console game?
Darque Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 Oh, yeah, and I'm sick of fantasy. I want a full on magic free cyberpunk game.
Slowtrain Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 I agree that it would be nice to see more options in the types of crpgs released. As Krezzie points out, variety is what keeps things interesting. But again, talking fantasy crpgs: the difference between The Witcher and Oblivion is pretty ginormous and to say that they are repeating the same fantasy aspects between the two of them is just downright silly. OK, they both have swords. SO yeah, they must be identical. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Kaftan Barlast Posted December 28, 2007 Author Posted December 28, 2007 Wouldn't misdirection work against that, as well? And you'd still need the Cleric to prepare his spells, which includes getting permission from his god to use them. The god could easily have said "no, figure it out the hard way. Your mayor got murdered, tough." One principle in D&D is that every spell has one or more spells that can counter it so our murderer woud have been revealed sooner or later. And the rules say that Clerics get their spells as long as they fulfill all the alignment thingies and so, there is no way a god can just say "no". That would be lika a pistol that refuses to be loaded. Kaftan, it appears most of your criticisms are about game design. The only thing that limits fantasy crpgs are the designers behind it. It also appears you don't like fantasy in general. WHich is fine. I don't like sports. But just because I don't like sports doesn't mean that the genre of sports games sucks. It just means I shouldn't play sports games. Or deer hunting games. Or driving games. WHich I don't. The thing I dislike that alot of great developers waste time with fantasy drivel when they could be making awesome games. Fortunantly, the trend appears to be over now. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
Tale Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 (edited) One principle in D&D is that every spell has one or more spells that can counter it so our murderer woud have been revealed sooner or later. Only if you're a bad scenario writer. the rules say that Clerics get their spells as long as they fulfill all the alignment thingies and so, there is no way a god can just say "no". My understanding has long been otherwise. The novels that help define the setting say the gods can refuse spells. What's the exact quote that makes you claim otherwise? Your scenario is nothing but poor design. It's like trying to make an interesting detective story using a 20+ year experienced homicide detective vs. a redneck lacking a high school education. Redneck: "Well, I dun poored beer on him to make him look drunk. So it would look like some sort of axeseedent." Detective: "But you left the beer bottle with your fingerprints next to the corpse." Edited December 28, 2007 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Slowtrain Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 The thing I dislike that alot of great developers waste time with fantasy drivel when they could be making awesome games. Fortunantly, the trend appears to be over now. So totally true, KB! Now instead of fantasy drivel we get scifi drivel! Sweet. Happily, I like drivel so its a win/win for me. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
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