President Ahmadinejad's Speech at Columbia University

[Yuusha]

@Sand:

Islam teaches equality, eh?

Yes it does. Please allow this humble Muslim to explain to you a few things about Islam.

 

Tell that to women who are forced to wear viels and burkas, or can't even get driver's licenses just because they were born female. Tell me how many women in Islamic Middle Eastern countries are allowed to participate in the military. Tell that to the homosexual men and women who have to live in fear for their lives because if they are found out they are killed.

Okay, first of all I would like to say that basically everything is permissible in Islam unless stated otherwise. This is very generic and almost 99% of Muslims will agree on this. To really know Islam, the first thing you must do is to differentiate between the actual teachings of Islam and local traditions and culture. In the middle east the majority of Muslim women wear veils and burqas. One can argue that because the middle east consists mostly of deserts, wearing a burqa or a veil is appropriate because it protects you from dust and wind. If you go to a Muslim country such as Indonesia or Malaysia, you will find that women wearing burqas are actually the minority here. Regarding the military, I honestly don't know much about how they do it in the middle east. But in Indonesia there are lots of policewomen and even female fire fighters. Why? Because there aren't any teachings in Islam that states a woman is not allowed to work!

 

Muslim Women can't get a driver's license??? Are you friggin kidding me Sand?? I'm sorry to say but this the most retarded thing I have ever hear you say. There are LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of muslim women drivers here in Indonesia. If you ever visit Jakarta, stop a cab and with any luck, the cab driver could be a woman. Oh and did you know that our 5th President was a woman?

 

Homosexuals.... Ok here's the thing. I've stated earlier that everything is permissible in Islam unless stated otherwise. Unfortunately (or fortunately depends on how you look at it), homosexuality is forbidden in Islam. There's no ands/ifs/buts about it. Now I don't pretend to understand why this is so, but as a Muslim I will follow the teachings of the Qur'an. The same is true with incest, bestiality and y'know sex that involves body wastes like umm sh!t etc (I have no idea what the term is). Islam, however, does not call for the extermination of homosexuals. There is this one Indonesian performer who used to be a man. A couple of years ago he went under the knife to change his sex, and nobody seem to have any problems with her/him performing on TVs. He/she is even a devout Muslim.

 

I'll continue this later.

[Sand]

Whatever, Yuusha.

 

You aren't going to change my mind on Islam and I will judge Islam on the behavior of ALL OF ITS FOLLOWERS. Just as I judge Christianity on ALL OF ITS FOLLOWERS. I will not pick and choose sects, countries, or whatever. I am going to take Islam as a whole and as a whole it sucks, as does nearly every other religion on this pathetic little mudball.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Personally, I always make up my own mind before listening to the opinions of other or facts or such things. If I listen to what someone else tell me about something, doesnt that man that MY own opinion is worth less? I think truth is exactly like soup, once you let someone else tamper with it, it ceases to be YOUR soup. An opinion that is based on something concrete is plagiarism, real undiluded truth can only come from yourself or people who share your views.

 

 

Thats how I know that all muslims hate freedom, and the Quran says that all white people must be destroyed.

[kirottu]

Don

[Sand]

HA!

 

I have read through the Old Testament. I have read through the New Testament. I have even read parts of the Book of Morman and the Qoran. I have long since came to the conclusion that God is an ass. He has given us instincts, desires, and the will to act on them then he says "Stop. Don't do that. It's wrong." He also condones and promotes eternal tortures if you don't do it his way. What a prick.

 

There is no sin on this Earth that is worth eternal torture and anguish. Period.

Edited October 3, 2007 by Sand

[Qwerty the Sir]

Whatever, Yuusha.

 

You aren't going to change my mind on Islam and I will judge Islam on the behavior of ALL OF ITS FOLLOWERS. Just as I judge Christianity on ALL OF ITS FOLLOWERS. I will not pick and choose sects, countries, or whatever. I am going to take Islam as a whole and as a whole it sucks, as does nearly every other religion on this pathetic little mudball.

 

A few questions about your methodology.

 

When you say judge Christianity, Islam, or other religions on the behavior of all of their followers, can you give us insights on how you do this?

 

I would be extremely grateful if you would share your theoretical methodology, as well as the practical, logistical aspects of your study.

 

Do you use enumerative induction? Are you doing sampling and statistics? What percent is your confidence interval? What are the results of your Bayesian analysis? Or do you actually have data on every single element of the respective religious sets?

 

Please email me a very small sampling of your research in an Excel file or another equivalent data entry software application.

 

Also, with what guidelines do you interpret your data and arrive to your conclusion? I ask because, I would have thought that by looking at the entire community of a particular religion, the results would overwhelmingly show peaceful people who just want to get along with their lives and devotions. Of course, my guess is purely based on loose conjectures about the world around myself (a strong majority of people claim some religious affiliation and it only seems that a very small fraction of them do extremist things, and one could have genuine suspicions that the media which relates much of this information overblows it; however if you've done a rigorous study...)

[Sand]

I judge by the extremes. Such as Reverend Phelps is as much as a representative of Christianity as is Mother Teresa. Bin Ladin is as much a representative of Islam as Keith Ellison. It doesn't matter if 99% is peaceful with 1% likes to go on a killing spree. Each one is a representative, for good or bad, of their religion.

 

If you don't like they way I view things, that is just fine with me.

Edited October 3, 2007 by Sand

[Tigranes]

If you judge by the extremes, and then toss out the whole, you toss out a lot of things that you haven't judged or considered properly. Basically your current stance comes from the basic supposition that you don't want anything to do with religion and you don't value religion/God at all: so you are then setting these hurdles, and say, "ALL people of a religion must jump this hurdle for the Sand to nod his approval." Then one fails, and you say, "told you that religion is a load of crock."

 

I can't think of any sort of personal, intellectual or social exercise this would be constructive to.

Edited October 3, 2007 by Tigranes

[Sand]

I agree. It is completely and totally irrational thinking on my part and shows that I have no clear concept of what reality is.

[Dark_Raven]

All of these one god religions are evil.

 

They don't practice what they preach. (They say peace yet there is a lot of bloodshed going on in the name of peace.)

 

Women are kept in their place.

 

No freedom of will.

 

They harm or kill those who do not convert or practice their faith according to their interpretation of it.

 

Concerning Palestine and Israel, that section of desert has been fought over since mankind settled there. It

[Hurlshort]

And they totally overgeneralize stuff too!

[Volourn]

"I judge by the extremes."

 

I'd say this is ridiculous; but it's just so Sand, and it's not based on logical or even morals at all. It's immoral and illogical to judge an entire group based on the extremes. People who do this are referred to as bigots, racists, sexists, etc., etc.

 

 

R00fles!

[Dark_Raven]

"I judge by the extremes."

 

I'd say this is ridiculous; but it's just so Sand, and it's not based on logical or even morals at all. It's immoral and illogical to judge an entire group based on the extremes. People who do this are referred to as bigots, racists, sexists, etc., etc.

 

 

R00fles!

NO WAI!

[Sand]

Hey, I treat everyone the same and equal. I place no value on a person higher or lower than another regardless of religion, gender, orientation, or race. How can that be considered bigoted, Volourn?

[Atreides]

I judge by the extremes. Such as Reverend Phelps is as much as a representative of Christianity as is Mother Teresa. Bin Ladin is as much a representative of Islam as Keith Ellison. It doesn't matter if 99% is peaceful with 1% likes to go on a killing spree. Each one is a representative, for good or bad, of their religion.

 

If you don't like they way I view things, that is just fine with me.

I think it's normal to do a best and worst case scenario analysis. But the "most likely" or "best estimate" is also important in making decisions. Some people (okay most people) go on the "best estimate" when making decisions on the future, but it's also important to consider the distribution and the best/worst case analysis too.

 

For example most people don't just buy lottery tickets thinking it's equally likely, 50/50 they'll win the billion dollar jackpot. Their decisions are tempered by the realisation that it's very unlikely they'll win.

[Yuusha]

Well, Yuusha, good for you and anyone else who supports this Ahmad guy. I mean, if you want to support someone who called for the entire country of Israel to be wiped off the map and called the Holocaust a myth, designed to make the nation of Palestine pay, then kudos to you.

 

Then he comes out and says "No, I am not anti-Jew. I respect them very much." I mean sure, so what if he reckons Israel should be wiped off the face of the planet. That doesn't mean he has anything against them, right?

 

And so much for equality in Iran. Oh sorry, you're gay, you're going to be executed for something you have no control over. Or, you can hide your gayness, and live your life in fear until you get your ass out of our country. Wow, what terrific human rights.

 

According to Human Rights Watch, the Iranian Government routinely tortures and abuses imprisoned dissidents, including through elongated isolated captivity. And the source of this information from Human Rights came from their Judiciary, liable to Ali someone, and on other members appointed by this Ahmad guy, so don't question the credibility of the information.

 

I mean, what's wrong with you, supporting someone like this? What, just because he's an outspoken critic of Bush and is all anti-American and all that crap, that gives you enough reason to be on his little ****ed up bandwagon?

 

By the way, it's pretty stupid to presuppose who I do and do not politically support, since I have not stated my political views on this forum before. I mean, your "precious" Bush? Pfft, I'm not even a Yank for a start, nor am I a fan of the guy. I'm not an outspoken critic of him, but still, that doesn't mean I support him.

 

And I fail to see how I made any sort of racist comment towards you. I thought I made it pretty clear that by "Indonesian hippy who laughs at his jokes that nobody else here laughs at" I was referring to you.

Let me explain something to you BOY!

 

What exactly is a "crime against humanity"?

 

This concept goes all the way back to the Nuremberg Charter of 1945 for the trial of the major Nazi war criminals. And in the Nuremberg Charter of 1945, drafted by the United States Government, there was created and inserted a new type of international crime specifically intended to deal with the Nazi persecution of the Jewish People. The paradigmatic example of a "crime against humanity" is what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jewish People. This is where the concept of crime against humanity came from.

 

And this is what the U.N. Human Rights Commission determined that Israel is and have been doing to the Palestinian People: Crimes against humanity. Legally, just like what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jews.

The Precursor to Genocide

Moreover, a crime against humanity is the direct historical and legal precursor to the international crime of genocide as defined by the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. The theory here was that what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jewish People required a special international treaty that would codify and universalize the Nuremberg concept of "crime against humanity." And that treaty ultimately became the 1948 Genocide Convention.

In fairness, you will note that the U.N. Human Rights Commission did not go so far as to condemn Israel for committing genocide against the Palestinian People. But it has condemned Israel for committing crimes against humanity, which is the direct precursor to genocide.

 

Since 1945, even before Israel was recognized as a (state), Israelis have NEVER stopped to commit all kinds of violation of the international laws that protects civilians under occupation.

 

Mr. Ahmadinejad is fighting to end this injustice. Hell yeah I'm gonna support him!!!

 

 

"And I fail to see how I made any sort of racist comment towards you. I thought I made it pretty clear that by "Indonesian hippy who laughs at his jokes that nobody else here laughs at" I was referring to you."

Ok fine! You're not a racist. But lemme just say that you truly are your father's son. You know what I'm talking about, dont'cha sweetie...

Edited October 4, 2007 by Yuusha

[Yuusha]

I judge by the extremes. Such as Reverend Phelps is as much as a representative of Christianity as is Mother Teresa. Bin Ladin is as much a representative of Islam as Keith Ellison. It doesn't matter if 99% is peaceful with 1% likes to go on a killing spree. Each one is a representative, for good or bad, of their religion.

 

If you don't like they way I view things, that is just fine with me.

Well... It's certainly still within your right to do so.

 

And for the record, I wasn't trying to convert you or anything.

[Aram]

Let me explain something to you BOY!

 

What exactly is a "crime against humanity"?

 

Big red letters.

[Sand]

I kind of figured that, Yuusha.

 

No harm and no foul.

[Yuusha]

@Meshugger:

The women, homosexuals, other religious factions disagree with that.

Please read my reply to Sand.

 

Yep, they have the largest jewish community in the middle east. But can they have saturday off because of the sabbath? Nope. Can they teach hebrew? Nope. Do they have the same job-oppurtunities as their fellow muslims? Nope. Should i go on? Nope.

My point is that the Iranian government's treatment of its Jewish citizens is not as bad as it's cracked up to be. The Iranian government is not perfect, no government is. I even consider the treatment the Jewish people receive in Iran is better than how the US government treats its black and Hispanic citizens.

 

I've been to the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, and our schools have had lectures from the survivors of the holocaust. The nazis carefully documented every single jew that died in their camps. Trust me, he is using it as a political ploy to rally muslims around the world for his cause. Read about the "Einsatztruppen", read Shirer's "The rise and fall of the third reich".

I think the holocaust definitely occurred, and I'm certain Mr. Ahmadinejad realizes this. However, Mr. Ahmadinejad questions the reasons and the effects of the holocaust. And in his speech, he said that the responses he received were allegations and insults. He believes that there is more to the story than the official history. I honestly can't see anything wrong with that.

 

The only ones seing Bush as their spiritual leader are the looniest of the evangelian groups, predominately in the US.

Agreed.

 

Israel is there and trying to destroy it will not bring back any good. There will be no peace until both sides want it. And the situation isn't that rad either, settlers in the west bank makes it difficult to create a west bank according to the 1967 borders, but the internal fighting between Hamas and PLO doesn't make it any easier.

 

Personally, i am very anti-nuclear, regardless on who owns it. But yeah, in the world of realpolitik, such a naive idea means nothing. And don't blame the media on the jews, that's like saying that there is an Shintoist conspiracy in video-games and anime, or that there's a christian agenda involved biotech-research. I can understand that there's a surge in the muslim community for a leader that speaks up about what they feel is injustice for them in an intellectual way, since no-one with a rational mind (regardless of religion) takes Osama Bin Laden seriously, but considering the situation in Iran and by various speeches by Ahmadinejad, i can easily tell that he is no Martin Luther King, he is no Mahatma Gandhi and certainly no Robin Hood of the middle east either, even if he tries to.

Well, you just might change your mind after reading this:

 

This list was randomly selected group of massacres and not all of them:

 

YEHIDA MASSACRE

13 December 1947: men of the Arab village of Yehiday (near Petah Tekva, the first Zionist settlement to be established) met at the local coffee house when they saw a British Army patrol enter the village, they were reassured espeically that Jewish terrorists had murdered 12 Palestinians the previous day. The four cars stopped in front of the cafe house and out stepped men dressed in khaki uniforms and steel helmets. However, it soon became apparent that they had not come to protect the villagers. With machine guns they sprayed bullets into the crowd gathered in the coffee house. Some of the invaders placed bombs next to Arab homes while other disguised terrorists tossed grenades at civilians. For a while it seemed as if the villagers would be annihilated but soon a real British patrol arrived to foil the well organized killing raid. The death toll of 7 Arab civilans could have been much higher. Earlier the same day 6 Arabs were killed and 23 wounded when home made bombs were tossed at a crowd of Arabs standing near the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem. In Jaffa another bomb killed six more Arabs and injured 40.

 

KHISAS MASSACRE

18 December 1947: Two carloads of Haganah terrorists drove through the village of Khisas (on the Lebanese Syrian border) firing machine guns and throwing grenades. 10 Arab civilians were killed in the raid.

 

QAZAZA MASSACRE

19 December 1947: 5 Arab children were murdered when Jewish terrorists blew up the house of the village Mukhtar.

 

 

AL-SHEIKH VILLAGE MASSACRE

1 January 1948: On that night around two hundred Zionists armed with hand grenades and machine guns sneaked into a small village called al-Shaikh village (5 km South East of Haifa). The attackers came through the southern hills (most possibly from Nisher Jewish settlement wich lies about 5 km south of the village). They attacked the houses on the edges of the village with hand-grenades and finished off with machine-guns killing around 40 of the Palestinians inhibitants of the village, mostly women and children.

 

DEIR YASSIN MASSACRE

9-10 April 1948: The massacre that became the symbol of Zionist aggression against the Palestinians as well as Zionist treachery. The Mukhtar of the village had agreed with the Zionists to provide information on the movement of strangers in the area as well as other intelligence provided their village is spared. The Zionists were not to keep their side of the promise. In an operation which was called Operation Unity, the Haganah co-operated with the Irgun and the Stern Gang in this operation. At 4:30 am on Friday 9th April 1948 surrounded the village which was overlooked by two Jewish settlements, Givat Shaul and Montefiore. For two days Zionist terrorists killed men women and children, raped women and stole their jewellery. A chilling account of the massacre is given by a Red Cross doctor who arrived at the village on the second day and saw himself - the mopping up - as one of the terrorists put it to him. He says that the "mopping up" had been done with machine guns, then grenades and finished of with knives. Women's bellies were cut open and babies were butchered inthe hands of their helpless mothers. Around 250 people were murdered in cold blood. Of them 25 pregnant women were bayoneted in the abdomen while still alive. 52 children were maimed under the eyes of their own mothers, and they were slain and their heads cut off. The Jewish Agency and the commander of the British ground troops knew of the massacre while it was going on, however, no one intervened to stop it.

 

NASER AL-DIN MASSACRE

13-14 April 1948: A contingent of Lehi and Irgun entered this village (near Tiberias) entered the village on the night of 13 April dressed as Arab fighters. Upon their entrance to the village the people went out to greet them, the terrorists met them with fire, killing every single one of them. Only 40 people survived. All the houses of the village were raised to the ground.

 

BEIT DARAS MASSACRE

21 May 1948: After a number of failed attempts to occupy this village, the Zionists mobilized a large contingent and surrounded the village. The people of Beit Daras decided that women and children should leave. As women and children left the village they were met by the Zionist army who massacred them despite the fact that they could see they were women and children fleeing the fighting.

 

THE DAHMASH MOSQUE MASSACRE

11 July 1948: After the Israeli 89th Commando Battalion lead by Moshe Dayan occupied Lydda, the Israelis told Arabs through loudspeakers that if they went into a certain mosque they would be safe. In retaliation for a hand grenade attack after the surrender that killed several Israeli soldiers, 80-100 Palestinians were massacred in the mosque, their bodies lay decomposing for 10 days in the mid-summer heat. The mosque still stands abandoned today. This massacre spread fear and panic among the Arab population of Lydda and Ramle, who were then ordered to march out of these towns after they were stripped of all personal belonging by Israeli soldiers. Yitzhak Rabin, Brigade Commander then says: "There was no way of avoiding the use of force and warning shots in order to make the inhabitants march ten to fifteen miles to the point where they met up with the legion." Most of the 60,000 inhabitants of Lydda and Ramble came to refugee camps near Ramallah, around 350 lost their lives on the way through dehydration and son stroke. Many survived by drinking their own urine. The conditions in the refugee camps were to claim more lives.

 

DAWAYMA MASSACRE

29 October 1948: The following is the testimony of a Jewish soldier who participated in the occupation of the village of Dawayma (in the Haifa subdistrict): "...They killed between 80 to 100 Arab men women and children. To kill children they factured their heads with sticks. There was not one home left without corpses .... One commander ordered a soldier to bring two women into a building he was about to blow up... Another soldier prided himself on having raped an Arab women before shooting her to death..." The massacre was perpetrated by the 89th Battalion, the authors of Lydda massacre.

 

SHARAFAT MASSACRE

7 Febraury 1951: Israeli soldiers corssed the armistice line to this village (5 km from Jerusalem) and blew up the houses of the Mukhtar and his neighbors. 10 were killed (2 elderly men, 3 woemen and 5 children) and 8 were wounded.

 

KIBYA MASSACRE

14 October 1953: 9:30 pm about 700 regular Israeli troops attacked the border Jordanian village of Kibya, north west of Jerusalem. Using mortars, machine guns, rifles and explosives they blew up 42 houses, the local schools and the mosque. Every man woman and child found by these ciminals was killed. 75 innocent villagers were murdered in cold blood. The raids were ordered by Ariel Sharon.

 

KAFR QASEM MASSACRE

29 October 1956: Israeli frontier guards started at 4 pm what they called a tour of the Triangle Villages. They told the Mukhtars of those villages that the curfew from that day onwards was to start from 5 pm instead of 6 pm. They reached Kafr Qasem around 4:45 and informed the Mukhtar protested that there are about 400 villagers working outside the village and there is not enough time to inform them of the new times. An officer assured him that they will be taken care of. Then the guards waited at the entrance to the village. 43 Kafr Qasem inhabitants were massacred in cold blood by the army as they returned from work, their crime was violating a curfew they did not know about. On the northern entrance of the village 3 were killed and 2 were killed inside of the village. Amongst the dead were men, women, and children. Lutanat Danhan was touring the area in his jeep reporting the massacre, on his wireless he said "minus 15 Arabs" after a while his message on the radio to his H.Q. was "it is difficult to count".

 

AL-SAMMOU' MASSACRE

13 November 1966: Israeli forces raided this village, destroyed 125 houses, the village clinic and school as well as 15 houses in a neighbouring village. 18 people were killed and 54 wounded.

 

THE SABRA AND SHATILA MASSACRE

15-18 September 1982: After the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon Phalangist puppets of the Israelis massacred over 3000 Palestinian men, women and children under the watchful eyes of the Israeli army. A body count by the International Committee of the Red Cross revealed 2750 dead, the real figure is thought to be much higher and may never be known.

 

OYON QARA MASSACRE (RISHON LEZION:

20 May 1990: An Israeli soldier lined up Palestinian laborers and murdered seven of them with a sub-machine gun. 13 Palestinians were killed by Israeli forces in subsequent demonstrations at the massacre.

 

AL-AQSA MOSQUE MASSACRE

8 October 1990: Israeli police opened fire on worshipers in al-Aqsa mosque killing 22 people.

 

THE IBRAHIMI MOSQUE MASSACRE

25 February 1994: A Jewish terrorist, from Keryat Arba' settlement massacred 50 worshipers in the Ibrahimi Mosque in al-Khalil (Hebron) and wounded about 200. Later massive demonstrations took to the streets of Palestine and the Zionist army responded by live ammunitions, killing 23 and wounding hundreds more. Reports indicate there were 3 Jewish settler gunners, not only one.

 

THE JABALIA MASSACRE

28 March 1994: A Jewish undercover police opened fire on Palestinian activists brutally killing 6 and injuring 49. Some of the wounded activists were taken out of their cars and shot in their heads to death.

 

ERETZ CHECKPOINT MASSACRE

17 July 1994: Palestinian sources reported that the occupation forces had committed Sunday morning a disgusting massacre against Palestinian workers at Eretz Checkpoint. Eyewitnesses and Israeli sources reported that 11 Palestinians have been shot dead and 200 injured. Israeli sources also reported that 21 Israeli soldiers including 1 settler were injured. Two soldiers were shot by bullets, one died. As reported by Palestinian and Israeli sources, the scene was described as a war zone which lasted for 6 hours. Four Israeli tanks and helicopters were brought by the occupation forces, while a number of settlers took part firing at Palestinians. Protests had spread all over the Occupied Territories. In Gaza, Palestinians raised black flags and called for revenge. In Ramallah, shops closed while several clashes were reported. Several clashes were reported at Hebron University yesterday, and today two Palestinians were shot in Hebron.

 

 

These are just some of the massacres committed against the Palestinians by the Zionists. If the raids on southern Lebanon old and new were to be taken account the true magnitude of Zionist crimes against humanity could start to emerge. If one were to go into the gruesome details of the atrocities committed in 1948 the "mopping up operations", the deliberate humiliation and massacre of Arabs and the desecration of the holy places of both Muslim and Christian as well as the looting of these holy places and personal property by the Israeli army and settlers, one might just start to appreciate what Zionism is all about.

[Hurlshort]

Well, it takes two to tango, I suppose. The fact is both sides need to move beyond their bloody history with one another if there is to be any peace. That means both sides need to focus on building a future together, rather than destroying the other. But hey, that's just the whiskey talking.

[Volourn]

"I even consider the treatment the Jewish people receive in Iran is better than how the US government treats its black and Hispanic citizens."

 

Please don't post delusional stuff. It's embarassing. Iran doesn't even treat its Muslim citizens cproperly let alone their Jewish ones. L0L

 

Black and hispanic citizens in the US have 100% the same rights as their caucasion, asian, and even muslim citizens under the law and in practice. Of course, sadly, sometimes those in powers treat minorties wrongly; but if they get cuaght they usually don't last long.

 

Some silly radio announcer even lost his job because he said some insensitive comments about a group of female blacks despite the country brags about free speech.

 

Racism exists in the US; but it's highly frowned upon. Unlike Iran where racism, and bigotry is accepted and encouraged.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Volourn

[Meshugger]

Well, it takes two to tango, I suppose. The fact is both sides need to move beyond their bloody history with one another if there is to be any peace. That means both sides need to focus on building a future together, rather than destroying the other. But hey, that's just the whiskey talking.

 

Exactly. Instead of posting the horrors and antrocities committed by each side, one should find a solution that is beneficial for both of them. Something that wouldn't go with Ahmadinejad, since that would make him lose the support that he has.

[Sand]

My point is that the Iranian government's treatment of its Jewish citizens is not as bad as it's cracked up to be. The Iranian government is not perfect, no government is. I even consider the treatment the Jewish people receive in Iran is better than how the US government treats its black and Hispanic citizens.

 

You are wrong there. Blacks and Hispanics, as Volourn stated, still have equal rights under the Constitution and while racism and bigotry is still prevalent it is highly frowned upon. However in Iran the Jewish people are not even protected from bigotry and discrimination that they have to go through due to the injustices of Islamic Law.

 

I think the holocaust definitely occurred, and I'm certain Mr. Ahmadinejad realizes this. However, Mr. Ahmadinejad questions the reasons and the effects of the holocaust. And in his speech, he said that the responses he received were allegations and insults. He believes that there is more to the story than the official history. I honestly can't see anything wrong with that.

 

While I do believe there is nothing wrong in investigating historical events, Ahmadinejad said out right that the Holocaust did not happen. Also there is always more to the story than the official history. That is the nature of history.

[Guard Dog]

And the score in this exchange is:

 

Sand 2

Yushaa 0