Diploma Denied for Cheering

[taks]

There has got to be more to the story, otherwise this really is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

read the story. the "more to the story" is contained within the article as well as several comments since. it wasn't just "someone in the audience" cheering.

 

the solution they chose was poor. i think a better solution would have been to stop after the first outbreak, and inform everyone that the ceremony would be cancelled _for everyone_ if the children (read: adults) in the audience continued their disruptions.

 

taks

[Gfted1]

^ so you feel its "it is unfair to punish the students for others' behavior, most definitely" but it is ok to punish _everyone_ for the same thing?

[Hurlshort]

^ so you feel its "it is unfair to punish the students for others' behavior, most definitely" but it is ok to punish _everyone_ for the same thing?

 

Actually, that's almost true. If something happens in a class that I don't like, I'm not going to single out a few students who MIGHT have been involved and let everyone else off. I'll punish the whole class.

 

I don't agree with the administrators on the whole issue. Graduation is a time of celebration, not petty discipline matters.

[Gfted1]

^ so you feel its "it is unfair to punish the students for others' behavior, most definitely" but it is ok to punish _everyone_ for the same thing?

 

Actually, that's almost true. If something happens in a class that I don't like, I'm not going to single out a few students who MIGHT have been involved and let everyone else off. I'll punish the whole class.

 

I don't agree with the administrators on the whole issue. Graduation is a time of celebration, not petty discipline matters.

 

 

Mob punishment is quite effective in the right circumstances, such as a classroom where you will see the same people everyday for months. IMO, it does not work in one-shot instances against people who you ultimately do not control.

 

My question to taks was meant to get a better gauge on his opinion as he seems to contradict himself just a few posts apart.

[Volourn]

Punishing someone for something they didn't do is immoral.

[metadigital]

Just eject the noisy people ...

[taks]

My question to taks was meant to get a better gauge on his opinion as he seems to contradict himself just a few posts apart.

i'm not contradicting myself at all. singling out some kids because the cheers happened during their "walk" is really unfair as they don't have direct control over the whole audience. if the audience was warned "if this continues, we will halt the ceremony," the audience would likely have obeyed. had they not obeyed, and then the school officials shut it down, at least then the treatment was across the board, and issues of racism, sexism, etc., would not exist. i.e., shut up or you all get punished.

 

oh, and meta, i'm assuming you actually read the article, because you'd know that they did boot some of the more obnoxious folks. apparently that didn't help.

 

taks

[taks]

oh, and i should add, shutting down the ceremony would not have anything to do with getting the diploma, i.e., they'd still get it.

 

taks

[ghosta]

An update on the story Diploma Denined for Cheering

 

 

I'm just glad the students got thier diplomas.

[Volourn]

TRhe schoola dministrators should be fired for such patheticness. They are just - if not more - immature than the 'cheerers'. Absolutely pathetic.

[metadigital]

oh, and meta, i'm assuming you actually read the article, because you'd know that they did boot some of the more obnoxious folks. apparently that didn't help.

Nah, I don't read everything on linked sites.

 

Just keep ejecting 'em!

[Walsingham]

Personally I find it very sad that passing out of high school successfully should make people so ecstatic. A sad comment on the state of the nation's education system.

 

Having said that I do think it is a more than a little heartless to expect people to remain quiet if they are very proud of their kids. In fact I'd say it's probably BECAUSE they are so proud that the kid is there in the first place.

 

My ruling would be to point out to everyone at the start how proud EVERYONE is and that if cheering is too long and loud for each student then other people can't express their own pride. If I knew it was going to be an issue I'd be a good enough principal to find out which families were most likely to go bananas and chat to them personally beforehand, sugaring the pill of warning them to keep calm while giving them a chance to showboat to me.

[Blarghagh]

A possible solution would be to have an electronic board stating the names in writing.

[Tigranes]

If you can't cheer, why have a ceremony? If the staff are not competent enough to control outrageous cheering, why punish the diploma recipients? The only way it'd make sense is if, say, the four got up and got their diplomas, took their time on the stage, incited others to cheer and 'rocked' the place before eventually coming down. Even so, thats more a case of the school demanding a formal apology or banning them from postgrad party (which they did) - not withholding the actual diploma.

 

Sounds like the superintendant & co just said, screw this, we'll move on. Not a bad idea once they've got their feet in the mud.

[theslug]

I graduated just last year and they tell you far beforehand the consequences of cheering. It's common knowledge to the parents and students so I don't have any pity for the people who got there diplomas taken away, which is such a frivolous thing anyways. I mean it's just a piece of paper that doesn't mean anything. My school was pretty retarded though, once it was over you walked through this long subterranean corridor and they had your official diplomas just sitting on these tables in an empty hallway, and you are supposed to find yours in the midst of 300 retarded high school graduates.

 

But I agree completely with Walshingham our school system is a complete joke, even higher education is pretty bad.

[Hurlshort]

Wow, got a few negative nellies here. I'm sorry if graduation wasn't special for you.

 

High School isn't an easy experience. It's a four year obstacle course. People should be proud to get through it and feel a sense if accomplishment. I've also said it before on these boards, education is what you make of it. Every student is going to have a unique experience as they struggle with the growing responsibilities of impending adulthood. Sure, the academic requirements for graduation aren't very high, but that's not the real obstacle. We aren't automatons, we all face a unique road. My wife works in a High School in a rough part of town, and she faces teen pregnancy, gang pressures, drug problems, etc. Many of these kids are being reaised by kids themselves. Graduating from High School is proving that they can start something and stick with it over a long period. That's the most important skill you will learn in school.

 

So lighten up and be happy for these people.

[Tigranes]

I suppose you can look at it that way - my instinctive reaction is to think of the middle-class, relatively stable family home raised kid facing the hurdles of ridiculously low academic standards (for passing). In that kind of environment other 'tasks', like extra-curricular things and social life, aren't as much challenges but good experiences. That doesn't mean my own high school years were happy and easy and whatnot, it just means that I think the kind of 'challenges' you face in HS, even for your age, are really nothing (unless you're in an exceptionally disadvantaged situation), not just academically but in all sorts of other ways.

 

I rather see HS, and to an extent middle school, as that stage where the middle-class developed countryman is rid of his capacities of initiative and are rendered reactive subjects, just doing what they're told enough to get by. Everything is so custom-tailored for you to do with so much time that you become conditioned to these standards.

[Walsingham]

I'm sorry I sounded so negative. I should have put more emphasis on the fact that I acknowledge the tremendous contribution some of these families have made to their children, and the struggle of the children themselves. What I was trying to say was:

 

1. Highschool shouldn't be so much of a struggle. It doesn't have to be, given enough pastoral care and dynamic control of the students.

2. The parents are clearly experiencing a degree of pride that overmasters their natural discretion. They need to be given a safe outlet for that pride.

[metadigital]

As I am now doing some study again, I can (and actually find it difficult not to) compare the experience with previous ones. When I think back to being a teenager, it was probably the singlemost difficult process I have ever done.

 

Given the same circumstances, even with any age-related reduction in mental and physical peaks, I find it many orders of magnitude easier now.

[taks]

just as easy now as it was then. actually, the level of complexity in much of the work i'm doing now is orders of magnitude more difficult in some respects, particularly the amount of work i have to put in.

 

taks

[theslug]

Wow, got a few negative nellies here. I'm sorry if graduation wasn't special for you.

 

High School isn't an easy experience. It's a four year obstacle course. People should be proud to get through it and feel a sense if accomplishment. I've also said it before on these boards, education is what you make of it. Every student is going to have a unique experience as they struggle with the growing responsibilities of impending adulthood. Sure, the academic requirements for graduation aren't very high, but that's not the real obstacle. We aren't automatons, we all face a unique road. My wife works in a High School in a rough part of town, and she faces teen pregnancy, gang pressures, drug problems, etc. Many of these kids are being reaised by kids themselves. Graduating from High School is proving that they can start something and stick with it over a long period. That's the most important skill you will learn in school.

 

So lighten up and be happy for these people.

I honestly think that's a complete cop out. All classes deal with different issues, sure in lower income they deal with teen pregnancies, gangs, and drugs. But in middle and high class communities drugs, alcohol, and sex are still very much apparent. Hell a kid I used to be friends with a few years back just got arrested for selling/using black tar heroine. Course lower income kids get the shaft more but that should just encourage them to do even better in school. I mean if you can read and have a work ethic that doesn't completely suck there is absolutely no reason you should have a problem with school. Graduating high school has nothing to do with intelligence pretty much what so ever. I hated when people would be like "Wow, you're pretty smart!" I mean we all know I'm stupid but the difference between me getting an A and other people getting a C is because I listened in class and did my homework. Graduating high school just means that you deal with an extended amount of useless BS for 4 years.

[Cantousent]

Yeah, going through high school rips initiative from the middle class Bourgeoisie. Give me a break. I guess we should do away with school and just have an unending wellspring of ignorance. I'm not a teacher. I would not be one for the world. (again, at least) Nevertheless, I have the utmost respect for teachers. Many of them work in trying circumstances and some of them work in impossible environments. Even so, they generally produce educated people. ...But that doesn't matter. Hostile folks can sit at arms length and spit vitriol at teachers. Not just any teachers, mind you, but popular members of the community like Hurlshot.

 

So, you were a student once? Good for you. I suppose being a student in one school gives you a mastery of the subject of education. There are no mysteries for you, having been a student. Some time ago. In some state. Kind of like being a virus gives you a complete understanding of medicine.

[Walsingham]

Actually I had that virus. It wasn't worth it. Mucus EVERYWHERE.

[theslug]

Man you guys need to take a page out of Cant's book and learn to read between the lines (aka make gross assumptions). I'm obviously some kind of horrible fascist who wants to destroy public education and sabotage the nation. I also hate teachers with a passion because they are the reason that stupidity and to a smaller extent communism flourishes in the world. I'm also completely ignorant to any schooling issues becuase Lord knows I don't talk to several high school students in different regions of the country about how much and why school fails. Yeah I'd say it's pretty accurate to say I don't know a damn thing about anything because Cant has the ability to see into the depths of people's souls through the internet. It's quite amazing actually.

[Cantousent]

"But I agree completely with Walshingham our school system is a complete joke, even higher education is pretty bad."

 

If making gross assumptions and extrapolating from that point forward makes me a criminal, I'll share a cell with you.

 

On the other hand, although I didn't agree with your posts in this thread, I was probably mostly addressing my friend Tigranes, who actually said: "I rather see HS, and to an extent middle school, as that stage where the middle-class developed countryman is rid of his capacities of initiative and are rendered reactive subjects, just doing what they're told enough to get by."

 

The big clue is that I use the same language in my post: "Yeah, going through high school rips initiative from the middle class Bourgeoisie."

 

If we're going to be cell-mates, you've got to stop taking all this personally. That, and I get the top bunk.