Real Breaking News: Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer

CoM_Solaufein · April 12, 2007

Looks like the expansion will be good. I like the idea of epic levels being used.

Maria Caliban · April 12, 2007

Some screen shots

http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/static/EEZ...lApZmAdtuUl.php

Neat, you get to fry a triceratops and give plant elementals wedgies!

Cantousent · April 12, 2007

Ahhh, so the EBgames preorder *was* a sign of a coming expansion! Hooray!

You were on to something. ...And it's happy news, so everything is good.

The screenshots don't particularly excite me.

The epic levels were inevitable, as were prestige classes in the first game. However, it makes sense, in the current trend, that the game would end in epic levels. Actually, it all seems good except that I would have rather had the first game go to mid levels, the first expansion go to 20, and then wrap up a third act in epic levels. The howls would be deafening, to be sure. There was an outright cacophony when folks didn

Llyranor · April 12, 2007

Given their involvement with Aliens RPG, do JE and MCA have anything to do with this?

Gromnir · April 12, 2007

does josh have to work on this? it not seem like the kinda chore he would choose... but maybe that is why they calls it a job.

in any event, from the presser we cannot predict good or bad... is far too general... which is what we expect from such pressers. an expansion to a fr d&d game that got us to 20th level? sure, we were gonna have game set in the popular forgettable realms, and we were gonna get epic levels... those were givens. the rest is simple puffery.

...

am hesitant to mention, but Gromnir kinda agrees with vis 'bout the suckage o' d&d epic levels. 'course Gromnir is one o' those gamer snobs that hates d&d past 'bout level 12 ( 'cause you might as well throw 'way your dice at that point,) so saying that we not like epic is kinda redundant, eh?

#1 thing Gromnir wants from expansion just ain't gonna happen, and that is too bad. since nwn the cleric domains has been a complete joke. nwn domains don't work like d&d pnp domains, so developers can't use excuse that they is staying true to d&d to explain their horrible implementation o' domains. that being said, if you is gonna deviate from d&d, then you gots no excuse to be doing even worse than wotc did 'em. domains is still unbalanced and generally vomitous... but fixing 'em is not an efficient use of resourcesm is it?

in any event, expansions typically see player having less tangential and optional side-questage than were in original product. makes sense from a development pov, but as nwn2 had almost 0 such fodder we suspect that developers will be hard-pressed to makes the expansion even more critical path focused. oh the sleepless nights trying to streamline what not got no excess to begin with. am not envying obsinaties.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited April 12, 2007 by Gromnir

Jorian Drake · April 12, 2007

I don't mind epic levels at all. I would have been equally happy had the NWN2 campaign been reconfigured to end at level 14 ready for the expansion pack, but it doesn't matter all that much to me. What matters is that there will be an expansion, and the story will be continued, and hopefully some of the same NPCs will make a reappearance.

What's in Rashemen, and why does it sound familiar?

Minsc and Boo to the rescue! :sorcerer:

Gromnir · April 12, 2007

btw, if Gromnir were the kinda person who put stock in omens and portents, we would observe that news o' the nwn2 expansion reached us same day that nwn2 1.05 patch went down in burning ruins.

HA! Good Fun!

Jorian Drake · April 12, 2007

Well, i guess we get those 2 Prestige Classes too:

Rashemen Witch

Red Wizard of Thay

Would love to actually get a similar class to a 'raging ranger' what would nicely fit Minsc :teehee:

EDIT: oh, and we DEFINITIVELY need Space Hamsters! In all size variants! :sorcerer:

Edited April 12, 2007 by Jorian Drake

Gromnir · April 12, 2007

Well, i guess we get those 2 Prestige Classes too:

Rashemen Witch

Red Wizard of Thay

Would love to actually get a similar class to a 'raging ranger' what would nicely fit Minsc

EDIT: oh, and we DEFINETY need Space Hamsters! In all size variants!

red wizards is munchkiny... and am not sure that obsidian has overcome all the prc issues regarding casters so as to make possible anyways.

prcs is bad for game, but if you is gonna do 'em, then stick with the neverwinter nine types... campaign specific custom jobs.

HA! Good Fun!

damonors · April 12, 2007

prcs is bad for game, but if you is gonna do 'em, then stick with the neverwinter nine types... campaign specific custom jobs.

HA! Good Fun!

Doubt that'll happen as it isn't as marketable.

As a side bar about prcs, it is very interesting to see on the NWN2 boards what people thing need 'fixing' with each prestige class (in those Rob started threads). Inevitably they are "they need more power" type things. It is super uber 1337 inflation.

BUT....please please please let the prestige classes be something that you can't get with class combinations. No Eldritch knight, arcane trickster, divine champion etc. that are absolutely unnecessary. Give us something that, you know, actually gives us something.

And what the [he]ck are the new base classes?

Gromnir · April 12, 2007

prcs is bad for game, but if you is gonna do 'em, then stick with the neverwinter nine types... campaign specific custom jobs.

HA! Good Fun!

Doubt that'll happen as it isn't as marketable.

of course it ain't marketable, but as Gromnir won't make a dime off of nwn2 expansion sales, we has luxury to ask for and even demand what is gonna make game better rather than ask what will make more marketable.

*shrug*

most gamers, given half the chance, will build the bestest and baddest character they can... even if they is aware that by doing so they will makes game so easy that it ain't fun no more. gamers is kinda dumb, no?

maybe the problem is that we thinks o' these things as games. you plays games to win, no? no. crpgs can be beat by any 11 year old with ADD. beat game should not be THE goal.

the clown at wotc who cames up with prcs at 11th hour o' 3e development deserves some special place in gamer's hell. lawyer's gots this thing called an attractive nuisance. is used to overcome reasonable person standard for tort law. would a reasonable person know better than to play on construction equipment? sure. attractive nuisance is only useful in cases dealing with children and the retarded... 'causes those is the folks deemed to be so stoopid or weak-willed that they cannot rely on common sense. maybe add gamers to list?

HA! Good Fun!

Stephen Amber · April 12, 2007

Maybe they can finally get horses into the game...

Gromnir · April 12, 2007

Maybe they can finally get horses into the game...

curiousness makes Gromnir ask the following: if horses were added to nwn2 so that they functions same as they does in oblivion, would you continue to desire their inclusion in a nwn2 game?

horsie combat that genuine adds another level o' tactical sophistication to game is great, but personally we would rather not have 'em if they is gonna suck up resources just so that obsinaties developers can claim that they too added horses.

HA! Good Fun!

Jorian Drake · April 13, 2007

And what the [he]ck are the new base classes?

My guess is psionic classes

Jorian Drake · April 13, 2007

Maybe they can finally get horses into the game...

curiousness makes Gromnir ask the following: if horses were added to nwn2 so that they functions same as they does in oblivion, would you continue to desire their inclusion in a nwn2 game?

horsie combat that genuine adds another level o' tactical sophistication to game is great, but personally we would rather not have 'em if they is gonna suck up resources just so that obsinaties developers can claim that they too added horses.

HA! Good Fun!

I guess you didnt play Wyvern Crown of Cormyr

Gromnir · April 13, 2007

"I guess you didnt play Wyvern Crown of Cormyr"

nope... and we doubt psionics classes would be added... 'cause you gotta complete add an entire new magic system to accomodate. far too much effort for an expansion.

HA! Good Fun!

Dark_Raven · April 13, 2007

Yay! Expansion.

No horsies.

Rashamen home of Minsc and Boo.

Butt kicking for goodness!

Stephen Amber · April 13, 2007

Wyvern crown basically gave a mounted rider "haste" speed, which in itself was sorta nice. And there were some nice aesthetics. In a big battle close to the finale a couple nightmares make appearances with flaming hooves and all, I assume they can be mounted, but don't think it happened in that game. Regardless, the promise of horses was made upon the announcement of NWN2... a promise which, due to truancy, remains unfulfilled.

Jorian Drake · April 13, 2007

"I guess you didnt play Wyvern Crown of Cormyr"

nope... and we doubt psionics classes would be added... 'cause you gotta complete add an entire new magic system to accomodate. far too much effort for an expansion.

HA! Good Fun!

Not really, as a game its all about numbers and the implementing to a game,

and because there are 3 psionic classes what are already regarded as base classes, ad because NWN2 implemented the 3.5 rules quite good (not perfect but good) they can simply be added, and similar to sacral and arcane powers it only becomes a3rd option. United with the ability to multiclassthem as all other base classes (Wizard/Psion, ect.)

I can't see anything that would be a trouble to include them at all, except for 'why if we don't have to?' or 'meh, we are too lazy for that'

but because the new base classes are already said to be included, i don't see many other possibilities to be it, if not the psionic classes.

After all these psionic/gith things it wouldn't be too far to guess that maybe the second expansion will have the 2 gith races including as playable too.

Wyvern crown basically gave a mounted rider "haste" speed, which in itself was sorta nice. And there were some nice aesthetics. In a big battle close to the finale a couple nightmares make appearances with flaming hooves and all, I assume they can be mounted, but don't think it happened in that game. Regardless, the promise of horses was made upon the announcement of NWN2... a promise which, due to truancy, remains unfulfilled.

Im sure they hold their word, and maybe make other things ridable too (spider, dragon, lion, big rat, pony version of the horse, lizard, ect.)

*sigh*

Edited April 13, 2007 by Jorian Drake

Gromnir · April 13, 2007

"Not really, as a game its all about numbers and the implementing to a game,"

ok... what do you mean?

josh complained 'bout how much effort went into the warlock, and they did a damned poor job on the warlock. was anybody really happy with the warlock implementation? psionics would be more troublesome to add than would adding warlock to nwn2... and this is a mere expansion. not only that, but what is chances that they coulds add a complete new magic system to an expansion that would seem profeshnul?

is 'nuff stuff missing from base 3.5 that the devlopers could occupy selves with and still never have time to even consider psionics. am simply not seeing the cost v. benefit factor o' this... 'less they has been working on since they started nwn2 and simply couldn't complete for nwn2 release.

"Wyvern crown basically gave a mounted rider "haste" speed, which in itself was sorta nice. And there were some nice aesthetics."

ssssoooooo.... haste and it looked kewl? am understanding there were also a jousting min-game?

*crickets chirp*

am not getting all tingly with anticipation. if ferret were wasting resources on such stuff, then Gromnir is glad to see that he ain't running the show no more... and the obsinaties can simply wash their hands of the situation and claim that the departed weasel boy were making promises that obsidian couldn't keep.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited April 13, 2007 by Gromnir

Jorian Drake · April 13, 2007

"Not really, as a game its all about numbers and the implementing to a game,"

ok... what do you mean?

I mean its a game like any other, programed or not into a PC game its just making effects working and then put a label on it like 'magic' or 'trap' or 'psionics'

then the game has to understand what these labels have to have as an action/reaction

Anything can be implemented if they do take time for it

josh complained 'bout how much effort went into the warlock, and they did a damned poor job on the warlock. was anybody really happy with the warlock implementation? psionics would be more troublesome to add than would adding warlock to nwn2... and this is a mere expansion. not only that, but what is chances that they coulds add a complete new magic system to an expansion that would seem profeshnul?

is 'nuff stuff missing from base 3.5 that the devlopers could occupy selves with and still never have time to even consider psionics. am simply not seeing the cost v. benefit factor o' this... 'less they has been working on since they started nwn2 and simply couldn't complete for nwn2 release.

While warlock was i guess hard to include, just as all other classes, many players do love the class and play it so yes, I am sure there were people happy about its implementation.

About the psion classes, its only my guess as the named 'new base classes' because if they really include any base one i simply cant think of an other one that fits into the Forgotten Realms.

"Wyvern crown basically gave a mounted rider "haste" speed, which in itself was sorta nice. And there were some nice aesthetics."

ssssoooooo.... haste and it looked kewl? am understanding there were also a jousting min-game?

Yes, a cool jousting, you also could use the horse for all-day combat, you had all the feats for horse fighting just like in the PHB asking for picking, and you had the otherwise 'missing pal' of the Paladin too.

Edited April 13, 2007 by Jorian Drake

Gromnir · April 13, 2007

"Anything can be implemented if they do take time for it"

duh. the point were that psionics is no different than d&d magic insofar as complexity is concerned... might be more complex. so if time is The factor, and this is just an expansion...

dunno. the problems seem more obvious than your optimism.

as for mounts... stephen amber didn't make sound appealing. haste? big whup.

personally, we want 'em to do well or not at all... which is another reason why we think that this is a feature not appropriate for an expansion.

publishers and developers look at expansions as if they is free money. a smaller group o' folks than worked on original game contribute some relative less number o' hours to an expansion that will provide 1/2 or less hours o' gameplay as original and 'nuff groovy new features to entice people who were already fans o' the genesis game to buy the expansion.

horses and psionics is big... man hour drains. is stuff that maybe mighta' been appropriate for nwn2, but for an expansion? where is the pay-off for obsidian and atari? after all, less people is gonna buy the expansion than bought nwn2. that is Always the case... less buy expansion.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited April 13, 2007 by Gromnir

metadigital · April 13, 2007

This is good news. It's is always good to get another DnD game, even if it is an expansion. I am glad to see the story will be continued from the first game. "near the powerful nation of Thay" oh the possibilities.....

Not a big fan of adventures with level 20+ characters, so I hope they focus on making it a well rounded story. Enhance the atmosphere with new music, improved audio effects, No forced NPC's, for any reason, lets keep the cut scene's to a minimum. Thanks.

I agree. Though I would add the corollary that the HotU epic-level expansion was better than the NwN OC.

Volourn · April 13, 2007

Or SOU. Or NWN2 OC. Or either KOTOR. Etc., etc.

Stephen Amber · April 13, 2007

ssssoooooo.... haste and it looked kewl? am understanding there were also a jousting min-game?

Oh, and long distance travels were shortened a bit if you went by horseback, I believe. If dismounted, the thing could fight for you with a neigh and hooves in the air. But, using monster manual stats, of course there is little advantage in that, as even the tough horse (heavy war horse) has pretty lousy stats compared to the opposition past lvl 5 or so. And you couldn't bring them into dungeons... not in that particular mod anyways.

Edit: oh, and you could equip them with saddlebags. Not a bad total package for what was a negligible cost.

Edited April 13, 2007 by Stephen Amber

Real Breaking News: Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer

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