50 reasons why.. part two

[17243_1556103691]

Part of the problem that you are descibing with the lack of 3d feel is because of the positioning of the circle. It doesn't actually reach the ground, it cuts off at about the ankles of the character so you can't get the circle around the ground.

 

Shadow Shield After Visage: Yes, I just cast everything starting with the level one spells and worked my way up, because the lower level spells had the longer duration. I could try again in reverse. If I use extend spell I should be able to get them all in before the first ones run out. There are a good 30 spells active on that character...

 

NWN2 spell effects: The problem isn't the effects themselves from what I see, it's that so many of them have the same sphere pattern. At least half of the spells on that character have a sphere going around the character, but when you have that many it makes it hard to differentiate between the effect from one spell and the next. A little more variety (IE, fewer spheres around the character) would likely clear that up somewhat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They really aren't 3D - seriously. Ask any of the developers, or circle the caster yourself with a camera. Now Compare that to like Spell Resistance from NWN1. See the obvious dimensional difference? You may not mind or care, but it just simply looks cooler. These features "add up" as Riftworm put it. And 5 years later you should be able to make that happen.

 

But you're absolutely right about too many spells apearing as spheres (albeit 1 dimensional spheres). in NWN2. It's too hard to differentiate between spells.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Guest

[Deraldin]

I wonder if it would be possible to implement some sort of mass spell blindness effect on anyone who tries to engage you in melee with those NWN2 spells. That's gotta be like trying to shoot the sun. :D

[Cantousent]

This fully buffed human wizard fluff is ridiculous. Sawyer is perfectly right to mock it. If he isn't mocking it, he should be.

 

What the hell? NWN's graphics weren't all that great when the game hit the shelves and they certainly aren't better than NWN2. Seriously, I can see some point to a few of these arguments, but the spell buff effect rant is just ridiculous.

 

That's the deal breaker for you? :Cant's shaking his head with a bemused smile icon:

[17243_1556103691]

This fully buffed human wizard fluff is ridiculous.  Sawyer is perfectly right to mock it.  If he isn't mocking it, he should be.

 

What the hell?  NWN's graphics weren't all that great when the game hit the shelves and they certainly aren't better than NWN2.  Seriously, I can see some point to a few of these arguments, but the spell buff effect rant is just ridiculous.

 

That's the deal breaker for you?  :Cant's shaking his head with a bemused smile icon:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's that kind of apathy about game details that starts to erode the standard of video games today.

 

While you may see it as ridiculous, others with a discerning eye do not. These "details" combine to make a game more immersive in the end. Rift is right in that details "Add up".

Edited November 25, 2006 by Guest

[Cantousent]

In that case, sir, I'll doff my hat to your discerning eye and hope that your efforts lead to increased quality in future games.

[Pidesco]

[quote name='

[Deraldin]

I'm pretty confidant that at least some of the "OMG IT'S NOT 3D!!!" would go away if they lowered the spheres so that they encompassed the entire character. The only thing that really makes me think that the NWN1 spell effects were 3D was the circle where the spell effect touched the ground.

 

Which spells from NWN1 do you think had the best spell effects? No epic spells please.

[J.E. Sawyer]

J seriously though compare the two. You honestly think they look better "fully buffed" in NWN2? Consider the old Shadow shield, Spell resistance ect.  And even IGMS. I mean these animations were fairly complex in NWN1.

My comment's purpose was solely to kill the claim that either game has effects that "really" look like a person buffed by spells.

 

I do think the NWN2 spheres would look nicer as "true" spheres, though Justin attempted to avoid that for performance reasons IIRC.

[Riftworm]

J seriously though compare the two. You honestly think they look better "fully buffed" in NWN2? Consider the old Shadow shield, Spell resistance ect.  And even IGMS. I mean these animations were fairly complex in NWN1.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My comment's purpose was solely to kill the claim that either game has effects that "really" look like a person buffed by spells.

 

I do think the NWN2 spheres would look nicer as "true" spheres, though Justin attempted to avoid that for performance reasons IIRC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I can see that. And while that is a genuine reason, you'd think the last palce they'd want to cut corners for performance sake is spells, as one of the main factors that people consider for overall graphics aestethic quality in a game. Spell VFX are up there.

 

So it just seems better to want to make your "performance" cuts elsewhere if possible.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Riftworm

[17243_1556103691]

Well considering that J.E., I'd just assume see no vfx at all for those lower end ones that stack so many giant glowing circles on you you cant see anything else. Cut thoese out and maybe have room to redo Wail, Implosion, and Issacs Greater Missles Storms.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Guest

[J.E. Sawyer]

Number of spells effects on screen are among the things we have the least amount of control over. We can budget placeable polygons and set limitations on how our artists flesh out areas, but nothing really prevents players from dumping dozens of spells on the screen at once.

 

I honestly don't know how much of a difference it made, performance-wise, but I believe we were erring on the side of frugality.

[J.E. Sawyer]

[quote name='

[17243_1556103691]

Number of spells effects on screen are among the things we have the least amount of control over.  We can budget placeable polygons and set limitations on how our artists flesh out areas, but nothing really prevents players from dumping dozens of spells on the screen at once.

 

I honestly don't know how much of a difference it made, performance-wise, but I believe we were erring on the side of frugality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You were a graphic artist right? I'm an Art Director for a local communications design firm. Certainly you can appreciate the importance of design aesthtic. Sure form follows function, but with no form, function fails to engage. In video games, that's a big deal. IGN PC's less than colorful review of the graphics certainly took into account all of the details that were missing.

[Lokey]

Well unfortunately JE Sawyer and Obsidian made their decision and there's absolutely nothing you can do to change it

[Dark_Raven]

This thread =

[Deraldin]

That second picture looks kinda odd with the way some of the ripples just get cut off.

Edited November 26, 2006 by Deraldin

[Cantousent]

Raging against the spell effects in the game will save the industry? Other than the fact that it's downright pretentious to assume that what I find aesthetically pleasing somehow makes me inferior to you, soul, do you really suggest that the spell effects bubbles are a make or break issue. Is that the one item that made you throw up your hands and deride NWN2? If that's the case, then I don't see much hope in finding any common ground.

 

I know. I know. You're a graphic artist and work in the industry and we should probably all concede that your word is both final and authoritative, but I won't make any such concession. I like NWN2's graphics. The tilesets for NWN were horrible. I mean, really bad. Even then, I didn't agree much with folks who ragged on the graphics, which some people did when NWN hit the shelves. I'm interested in the game. I want good graphics. I think they're important. ...But spell effect bubbles? That's pretty damned nit picky.

[Riftworm]

Uh oh's the troll is back..Dark_Raven *cough*

 

I can see his points about decision making concernign spells, especially when you have to assume a worst case scenario of maybe 50 spells going off at once ina multiplayer setting. I still think many offensive spells look pretty bad. IGMS and Wail..I mean..c'mon..You don't want to concede victory to Bioware on those do you?

 

Well anyways now that bad spell vfx discussion is out of the way. Back to --> # 1, 2, 4, 5, 10, 11, 12, 14, 16, 21, 31, 37, and 42.

 

:D

[17243_1556103691]

Raging against the spell effects in the game will save the industry?  Other than the fact that it's downright pretentious to assume that what I find aesthetically pleasing somehow makes me inferior to you, soul, do you really suggest that the spell effects bubbles are a make or break issue.  Is that the one item that made you throw up your hands and deride NWN2?  If that's the case, then I don't see much hope in finding any common ground.

 

I know.  I know.  You're a graphic artist and work in the industry and we should probably all concede that your word is both final and authoritative, but I won't make any such concession.  I like NWN2's graphics.  The tilesets for NWN were horrible.  I mean, really bad.  Even then, I didn't agree much with folks who ragged on the graphics, which some people did when NWN hit the shelves.  I'm interested in the game.  I want good graphics.  I think they're important.  ...But spell effect bubbles?  That's pretty damned nit picky.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I never said such a thing. I merely mentioned I work in design. So I have naturally scrutinizing eye. I never said I'm the authority.

 

But for you to lump one side topic about Spell VFX into "I like NWN2's graphics", isn't relevant to what I was discussing. Rift pointed to a thread of people disappointed with some specific spell VFX, not all of them, and not the graphics in general (which I do have some issue with *chiefly the backgrounds looking so good and the characters themelves looking so opaque at times and too bright at other times).

 

We get that you don't care about spell vfx. Thank you for your apathy and willingness to receive whatever is spoonfed to you. I'm simply referring to the thread link that Rift pointed to and interjecting my own opionion about certain buffing effects.

 

"

[J.E. Sawyer]

[quote name='

[Dark_Raven]

Uh oh's the troll is back..Dark_Raven *cough*

 

I can see his points about decision making concernign spells, especially when you have to assume a worst case scenario of maybe 50 spells going off at once ina multiplayer setting. I still think many offensive spells look pretty bad. IGMS and Wail..I mean..c'mon..You don't want to concede victory to Bioware on those do you?

 

Well anyways  now that bad spell vfx discussion is out of the way. Back to --> # 1, 2, 4, 5, 10, 11, 12, 14, 16, 21, 31, 37, and 42.

 

:D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only troll I see is you. We already beat this dead horse yesterday, got the thread closed and yet here we are again.

[Junai]

Bah, why worry about the graphics-quality of magic protection-globes?

 

How about some minimalism? The whole screen is a mess when it's full of avatar-messages like "Power Attack Activated"/"Power Attack Deactivated"/"lose 13 hps, lose 27 hps, lose 10 hps" etc etc, and on top of that it's slightly laggy, AND you have overly blurry/spammy spelleffects/blood-splatter/shiny spell-plaques(?!) appearing and reappearing over the avatar-heads. I just click on the first monster I see, pray that all my chars won't die so I can auto-rez, and clean up the mess afterwards. The very thought of micromanaging anything, or working out some sort of combat-strategy under that blanket of pyrotechnic/message-spamming mania gives me the creeps.

 

Make it playable first, then worry about all the blingy and flashy stuff afterwards. It's not gold all that glitters.. Attack-spells could have some small graphics-effects, stoneskin and barkskin could show, but spare me the rest. Make it an on/off -option please.

 

J.

Edited November 26, 2006 by Junai

[Gromnir]

they both looks like fizzy-fuzzy bubbles o' light.

 

...

 

the fire effects seems to be much better in nwn2 and we recall that a couple o' the ice spells look better too, but if somebody is raging 'bout the minor superiority of one fuzz bubble to another...

 

oh and vol, 'bout the controls, you is right that we hasn't checked and don't know. that were part of our point... most peoples won't care and the people that does use the thing won't be daunted. also, as you is clearly insane, if a person tells Gromnir that controls is largely the same, then we is more likely to believe that person over vol until we see proof to contrary. we don't dismiss vol pov outright, but we does know that vol is nuts and we gotta take that fact into consideration when we choose to believe persons not named Gromnir.

 

nwn were not as bad a game as some people suggest. that being said it should come as no surprise that nwn2, a game made years after nwn release and with benefit of much feedback from that game, managed to improve most things. is some of the improvements LESS than we woulda' hoped for given the 'mount of time 'tween release of 1 and release of 2? hell yeah, but that not change fact that nwn2 did in fact improve nwn1 in many/most ways.... which should surprise nobody.

 

is there some things nwn did better than nwn2? yeah, given more time to develop we gots no doubt that nwn probably had more critters n' such, but the list o' things nwn1 did better than 2 could fit on a list o' maybe 5 to 10. the 50 bit were simply hyperbole to make a point... which is usually a terrible way to make a point.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited November 26, 2006 by Gromnir

[Riftworm]

Uh oh's the troll is back..Dark_Raven *cough*

 

I can see his points about decision making concernign spells, especially when you have to assume a worst case scenario of maybe 50 spells going off at once ina multiplayer setting. I still think many offensive spells look pretty bad. IGMS and Wail..I mean..c'mon..You don't want to concede victory to Bioware on those do you?

 

Well anyways  now that bad spell vfx discussion is out of the way. Back to --> # 1, 2, 4, 5, 10, 11, 12, 14, 16, 21, 31, 37, and 42.

 

:D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only troll I see is you. We already beat this dead horse yesterday, got the thread closed and yet here we are again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I didn't start this thread #2, and we aren't discussing the same things. But thanks for your shortsightedness.

[17243_1556103691]

[quote name='