NWN2 Professional Reviews Thread

[Dark_Raven]

*chuckle*

 

common sense and reason is considered wacky by vol?  go figure. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vol logic?

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Logic is DEAD to Volourn.

[alanschu]

Sure it is. For small group campaigns led by a DM. game over. Only an idiot would think there is no practical pause in MP. Period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

sorry vol, but it doesn't work... not with 6 or even 4 folks all able to stop game on a whim. makes us wonder if you ever played mp nwn.

 

HA! Good Fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I only played NWN 2 MP with 2 other people (so 3 total), but we still had pauses. They weren't too common, and usually when it happened we wouldn't unpause until everyone is all ready or not.

 

I imagine it would depend on the people as to whether or not pausing would work or not. I can't imagine adding an extra person would have pushed it past critical mass and made it unwieldly.

[Gromnir]

if you say so. we never been in a group where it worked. the more people you get and the more involved combats is, the more confusing and distracting the pause function becomes... and please try to imagine pws with more than a dozen folks on a server, not necessary in same location. interface gotta work for everybody.

 

btw,

 

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?sh...50entry713150

 

looks like the problem ain't solely a Gromnir issue, eh?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

" please try to imagine pws with more than a dozen folks on a server, not necessary in same location. interface gotta work for everybody.

"

 

Not all NWN MP takes place in a PW, Little One tm. :crazy:

[alanschu]

if you say so.  we never been in a group where it worked.  the more people you get and the more involved combats is, the more confusing and distracting the pause function becomes... and please try to imagine pws with more than a dozen folks on a server, not necessary in same location.  interface gotta work for everybody.

 

btw,

 

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?sh...50entry713150

 

looks like the problem ain't solely a Gromnir issue, eh?

 

HA! Good Fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I suspect it'd be a much bigger issue in a persistent world. And I made sure to state that it was with my group that it was not an issue, and made sure to not generalize it to other people. Perhaps one factor was that we always stuck together, so it wasn't like we'd be busy pausing for a fight while the other people were doing random stuff across the map. The fight I was pausing for was the same fight they were involved with. Also, whenever someone paused, they usually mentioned why they were pausing it over whatever VOIP we happened to be using.

 

 

It's not all that uncommon either. The Paradox games are real time, and they involve a multiplayer that allows pause (which is a good thing, because sometimes big events happen and you want to spend some time contemplating what may be the best course of action). If someone pauses the game, only they can unpause it for the first 30 seconds. After that, anyone can unpause it.

Edited November 29, 2006 by alanschu

[Gromnir]

" please try to imagine pws with more than a dozen folks on a server, not necessary in same location. interface gotta work for everybody.

"

 

Not all NWN MP takes place in a PW, Little One tm. :crazy:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

your point? again, the interface gotta work for everybody, and that includes pws and mp of more than 3 persons not named alan.

 

"It's not all that uncommon either. The Paradox games are real time, and they involve a multiplayer that allows pause"

 

am guessing that we ain't talking 'bout d&d style combat, eh? in any event, as we ain't ever played the games you is talking 'bout, we cannot say. am trying to imagine everquest or wow with pause... or one of those shooter games. is a pretty damn unwieldy notion in small groups much less in larger ones.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Tigranes]

The fight I was pausing for was the same fight they were involved with. Also, whenever someone paused, they usually mentioned why they were pausing it over whatever VOIP we happened to be using.

 

And why WERE they pausing? Discounting stuff like 'brb cat just copulated'. If it's to cast a spell that required precise aiming or something, then it'd only be 1-2 seconds of pause where such an explanation of redundant, so I don't get it.

[alanschu]

am guessing that we ain't talking 'bout d&d style combat, eh? in any event, as we ain't ever played the games you is talking 'bout, we cannot say. am trying to imagine everquest or wow with pause... or one of those shooter games. is a pretty damn unwieldy notion in small groups much less in larger ones.

 

 

It's a strategy game that has each player controlling their own country. with a host of decisions to make.

 

 

Even then, as I said, I've done the same in D&D style games such as BG2, both Icewind Dale games, and Neverwinter Nights. You talk about games like Everquest and WoW, which is odd because I stated that pausing would be a much bigger issue in a persistent world.

 

You stated straight up that pausing in "any legit MP session" was "idiotic," based on your own anecdotal evidence. I'm providing my own anecdote that there are in fact people that play MP, that still use pause at times. Not necessarily a whole lot, but in a game like Icewind Dale (which features D&D style combat) where my friends and I are each controlling 2-3 characters, pause comes in handy at times. Same went for Neverwinter Nights. "Idiotic" seems to be a bit harsh of a term for pausing in a multiplayer game. If none of the players care that there is the occassional pause, nor do any of the players do annoying stuff like intentionally pause the game in bizarre fashion simply to be annoying, it's not really that big of a deal.

 

 

And why WERE they pausing? Discounting stuff like 'brb cat just copulated'. If it's to cast a spell that required precise aiming or something, then it'd only be 1-2 seconds of pause where such an explanation of redundant, so I don't get it.

 

Yeah, they were usually pausing to do something in combat. The most common instances where if we were ambushed in the game. Given the explanation can be given at the same time as the pause, it didn't really matter if the explanation was redundant. As we got better at the game, and more acquainted with our characters, it typically didn't happen as much. But I'm not sure why it should matter to you that some of my friends were pausing the game. Did it affect your game experience? I'm not saying there should be full on support for pausing, to the extent that it cannot be disabled.

[Tigranes]

Uh, unless you had voice chat, in which case it's fine, wouldn't it be silly to

 

*pause*

Type: "Sorry guys, just gotta cast spell"

*cast spell*

Type: "ready?"

*unpause*

 

Anyway, I think you are confusing me with Gromnir here. I'm not agreeing with him, I was just watching the debate then got curious on this point. If I had to argue about pausing functionality I'd go a whole different route, so yeah. Just wanted to know.

[alanschu]

I said VOIP, which is Voice Over IP. Been using it since the Roger Wilco days back in the late 90s.

 

I'm not confusing you with Gromnir. The first part was towards him, and the second part was towards you. The miscommunication it seems is that you thought we were typing not talking. Given I thought you understood I was talking, it seemed like you were making a statement that pausing was still somehow redundant for our game.

 

 

Just noticed this last bit:

 

your point? again, the interface gotta work for everybody, and that includes pws and mp of more than 3 persons not named alan.

 

Sorry Gromnir, but I actually did have two other people (3 persons not named alan.....how witty). There names were Stefan (who now works at Bioware) and Chris (my roommate). Sorry if my anecdote wasn't good enough to counter your anecdote.

 

As for the "interface gotta work for everybody," I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Didn't NWN also allow the ability to pause? It's not like every server has to have it enabled. Are you actually encouraging the action of removing options for the users?

 

I'm surprised that you of all people seem to be making such blanket generalizations.

Edited November 29, 2006 by alanschu

[Sand]

I like the User Interface. I don't see how people are having problems with it. It is far better than a Radial.

[Xard]

^ That's truth, down with UI whiners!

Edited November 29, 2006 by Xard

[Diamond]

Only if they'd remove the delay on context menu...

[Pidesco]

Only if they'd remove the delay on context menu...

 

Beta patch FTW!

[Diamond]

Nah, I'm not risking. I've heard some stories about destroyed savegames. "

[Tigranes]

Reading back to my initial post, it's a bit too coarse - I intended it as a quick question, but it comes across as rather biting. My fault, was just an innocent question after skim reading the long posts. Doesn''t matter now that I caught up and understood you were talkin'.

 

But yes, I've heard that UI is clunky, but I think that has a lot more to do with the fact that there's no Select All Companions button (a really really stupid omission IMO), and that most players experience a slight response lag. The default timer for context menu is also unusually long (as if anybody uses right click for anything else!). But the designs behind it and most of the functions are sound.

[Diamond]

How do you imagine "Select All" working? NWN2 UI paradigm is centered around taking the control over one character at a time, isn't it?

[Tigranes]

And it shouldn't have been. I mean, I'm sure there was a logical reason involving the fact that it's carried over from NWN1, and lots of coding blah that makes the implementation way too difficult to have been worth it. But it's still a major gripe for me - it makes the 'easier' fights, or the final 'cleanup', much more bothersome and time-consuming (and if i turn puppet mode on they just start gulping potions of heal like mad when tey're 90% health, even with item usage off. or use disintegrate on a 2hp puppy.).

 

At the very least, party commands could have been draggable to UI - that is definitely something that they could have easily added.

[Diamond]

I mean, how do you think, for example, quick slots would work given multiple character selection? One option is the first selected character, but that's a bit awkward.

 

Agree on the last point though.

Edited November 29, 2006 by Diamond

[Pidesco]

There could be a toggle function for selecting all the characters, which would work for general actions like attack and move. But you would still have to select individual characters to use unique individual abilities like spells.

 

Example: You press CTRL-A, and from then on all orders for general actions are given to all the characters. But you still have to select each individual character to give character specific unique orders. You press CTRL-A again and all orders are given to each individual character as normal.

[Diamond]

So, it still voids the quickslots then, as they are customized on per-character basis.

[Tigranes]

Of course. IE games did the same thing. You had character quickslots (especially in IWD2 where they were awesomely customizable), but once you selected everyone it'd just have attack, guard, talk, and formations. Definitely possible - or just have quickslots greyed out! I mean, why would you use them if you were selecting multiple characters? If you use Select All all you'll be doing is move, attack default and talk. And use.

[Pidesco]

No, because there's a character that's always selected, even if general actions are assigned to all characters at once. You have the whole group selected for general actions at all times, while at the same time having the character of your choice selected for individual actions and changing the character selected for individual actions doesn't untoggle the "Select All" bit.

[Spider]

Or have the available quickslots be the ones of the first character (in the case of NWN2 the main character), so that if a slot is activated when all characters are selected only the main character does the deed.

 

The only commands that are given to the entire group would then be attack and possibly movement.