KotOR2 confirmed at 1Up.com

[neriana]

You can't deflect blaster bolts with a normal melee weapon. Nor can you throw normal melee weapons at enemies who don't get a saving throw. I think lightsabres are plenty cool in the game, but I can see where you're coming from.

 

Maybe if ALL the swords in the game (except what, the longsword?) couldn't stand up to lightsabres, and if lightsabres weren't so ubiquitous, they'd be cooler. Maybe they could add more to defense and attack faster as well?

 

On a side note, can characters using power attack please NOT flip in the air? It works for Juhani, but when Canderous does it, it just looks dumb .

[Diogo Ribeiro]

"Realistically" no one is going to be able to be hit 12 times with a lightsaber , but then again the same is very much true of D&D and weapons in general.

would combat be any fun if it was roll the dice and the one who hits first wins ?

"Realistically", lightsabers don't exist. But it's possible to implement them correctly, as was done in Jedi Outcast or Jedi Academy.

 

Vorpal swords are fine in theory but when they are used against you they lead to an awful lot of reloads if your unlucky.

 

Most games end up doing this at one point or another, based on several situations ranging from high-level combat, to mage combat, etc. Reloading because of combat isn't new, and basing the reason for excess reloadings on a vorpal weapon is iffy at best.

 

However, castrating lightsabers and have them operate like if they were nothing more than magical swords like ye olde standard D&D magic sword isn't the way to go, either. It depends on the system used. In an action RPG, it would be possible to have the lightsaber function as it should. Even if people come up with the whining based on it being too hard for them, and prefered the lightsabers to operate like they did on KoTOR, then a different method could be used, like having lightsabers hack away a limb based on, say, targetted attacks + critical hit elements.

[kefka]

You can't deflect blaster bolts with a normal melee weapon.Nor can you throw normal melee weapons at enemies who don't get a saving throw.

That's true, but even though blaster bolt deflection looks cool, it's mostly a cosmetic feature since I never felt threatened by blasters to need it. Ditto for throw lightsaber - looks nice but there are far more useful powers to take. As for dueling, sabers should be clearly superior to melee weapons.

 

Maybe if ALL the swords in the game (except what, the longsword?) couldn't stand up to lightsabres

hmm, ordinary swords could degrade during a battle with lightsabers, or maybe even be destroyed outright. Many games already have weapon degradation so it's certainly feasible.

 

Even if people come up with the whining based on it being too hard for them, and prefered the lightsabers to operate like they did on KoTOR, then a different method could be used, like having lightsabers hack away a limb based on, say, targetted attacks + critical hit elements.

I like this idea. Targeted attacks could be a way of making sabers more deadly, but their critical chance would need to be better assuming all weapons had this ability (unless it's unique to lightsabers). This would also introduce more tactics. However, I'm not sure they'd implement it given the focus on realtime combat. Targeted damage is more suited to turn-based like Fallout.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

"Realistically", lightsabers don't exist. But it's possible to implement them correctly, as was done in Jedi Outcast or Jedi Academy.

 

Most games end up doing this at one point or another, based on several situations ranging from high-level combat, to mage combat, etc. Reloading because of combat isn't new, and basing the reason for excess reloadings on a vorpal weapon is iffy at best.

 

However, castrating lightsabers and have them operate like if they were nothing more than magical swords like ye olde standard D&D magic sword isn't the way to go, either. It depends on the system used. In an action RPG, it would be possible to have the lightsaber function as it should. Even if people come up with the whining based on it being too hard for them, and prefered the lightsabers to operate like they did on KoTOR, then a different method could be used, like having lightsabers hack away a limb based on, say, targetted attacks + critical hit elements.

With full player control yes its possible but not through an RPG type interface.

 

Lightsaber combat in JK is all about timing and timing is something that isnt particularly relevent when you are rolling a virtual dice. Lets not forget that losing in a limb in JK was also instant death (hence reload).

 

Very few games have an instant death with no chance of protection. D&D has instant death spells, sure. But it also has numerous ways of protecting from them.

 

Vorpal weapons are an instant kill. Which is annoying but because they are comparatively rare in D&D it's not a constant maybe one encounter in a game will have vorpal weapons. How many foes have lightsabers in KOTOR.. Lots of them. Towards the end of the game almost everyone in fact.

Now if each of those hits was a 10% chance to instantly end your game I would throw the thing in the bin. There is nothing clever or tactical about having a 10% chance to die every time you get hit.

 

What do you do once you have lost a limb ? Robotic replacement , pretty standard SW stuff. But how do you get from where you are currently lying with a stump to the place you need to be if the whole party is lying on the floor in various states of dismemberment ?

 

Your forgetting one VERY important thing about SW the whole lopping off of limbs is there for dramatic effect. It dosnt stop the story while the characters slope off to "Limbs R Us" for the 15th time that week.

[kefka]

I wouldn't like to see limbs permanently dismembered just crippled for the duration of the fight. Damage could last a little longer depending on the severity but nothing you can't recover from. It would be frustrating if you constantly had to reload because of a lost limb.

 

As for vorpal, maybe your skill with a lightsaber determines the chance. A Padawan might only receive a 1% chance, while fully trained Jedi masters would have something like 10%. This would be fair I think so you would only face vorpal attacks rarely.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I wouldn't like to see limbs permanently dismembered just crippled for the duration of the fight. Damage could last a little longer depending on the severity but nothing you can't recover from. It would be frustrating if you constantly had to reload because of a lost limb.

 

As for vorpal, maybe your skill with a lightsaber determines the chance. A Padawan might only receive a 1% chance, while fully trained Jedi masters would have something like 10%. This would be fair I think so you would only face vorpal attacks rarely.

Hehe funny how realism gets unfun when you think it through isnt it Everyone has their own degree of what level is fun vs what is realistic.

 

I dont like instant death combat never have. The whole idea of if you roll 1-10% you die and if you roll 11-100% you dont strikes me as incredibly pointless.There isnt anything you can do except hover your finger over the quickload button. Failure in combat should be the result of either a string of bad luck, or incompetance. Not the result of a single dice roll. The difference in something like JK is I can recognise the move coming and either avoid or counter it so if I screw up I screwed up which is far more palatable than having a dice which is nothing but a random factor.

 

I dont mind it however if there is a way to protect yourself from it. So having a death spell is fine as long as there is a counter spell you can cast if you suspect you might need it. However with lightsaber if your talking about a 10% chance of "death" then when you factor in the number of rolls over an average game its going to happen a heck of lot. The problem with Vorapal weapons is there is no such counter except for their rarity.

 

(For anyone who dosnt know a Vorpal weapon is a D&D weapon that takes off somethings head if you roll high enough. The other version , the sword of sharpness takes off a random limb). All in all unless the players have them which usually makes them laugh hysterically, then they are a giant unpredictable pain in the arse to DM. I had a Githanki roll 4 20's once and kill an entire party which ended the game on the spot.

[kefka]

I dont like instant death combat never have.

I don't like instant death either, unless it's my enemies that are doing the dying! :D

 

The only point here is to improve lightsabers. I'm not too concerned how that's achieved but at present I'm unimpressed by their power relative to melee weapons.

 

Instead of vorpal, how about increasing the critical threat range and also the damage multiplier? Melee weapons could have criticals on 20, with 2x damage, and lightsabers on 17-20 with 3x. That is without crystals.

 

Also, a "finesse" feat for lightsabers might be interesting. This could add extra damage based on the feat's level - 10, 15, and 20vp. No penalty to defense.

That might seem a bit excessive, but after you've seen Canderous wield 2 Baragwin assault blades, it's nothing really.

 

btw, I think "parry" would be a nice feat to have also. Not strictly for lightsabers but to make duels more realistic.

[Darque]

The problem is that KotOR was based (loosely) on the d20 game.

 

Lightsabres "only" have a damage code of 2d6, as opposed to blasters which start at 3d6.

 

The "power" of the lightsabre comes from the user, not the weapon (a level 20 jedi does 5d6 with a lightsabre).

[Darque]

oops, my mistake.

 

they start at 2d8 and max at 5d8 (for a consular) and 6d8 (for a guardian)

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I don't like instant death either, unless it's my enemies that are doing the dying! :D

 

The only point here is to improve lightsabers. I'm not too concerned how that's achieved but at present I'm unimpressed by their power relative to melee weapons.

Thats what I meant by players having the a vorpal weapon on their side

 

I'm not to up on the SW stuff outside of the movies. But dont the weapons of the age KOTOR is set have some sort of weave incorporated into them purely for the purpose of fighting against lightsabers?

 

I would imagine that after the purge there were so few Jedi around that it wasnt much of an issue anymore.

[kumquatq3]

1Up is owned by Ziff Davis Media -- along with the magazines EGM and CGW which they say will have this as a cover story. It seems reasonable to me that 1Up knows about the cover story from sister publications and it also seems likely that Ziff Davis would only undertake a cover story with support from LucasArts / BioWare etc. So, perhaps it's not an official announcement -- but it's a little more than a casual rumour in my opinion.

^excellent point

 

It should be noted that both EGM and Computer gaming world are carrying the story on their respective home pages. I don't think they would clearly displayed it like that if the next issue didn't contain KOTOR2 news. Sounds like we have 30 days or so for "offical" details on the game. Then of course, there is E3.

[kefka]

But dont the weapons of the age KOTOR is set have some sort of weave incorporated into them purely for the purpose of fighting against lightsabers?

Yeah, that would be cortosis weave. I was never keen on that. If they were rare it might be OK, but in KotOR almost everyone has one. It took away the prestige of using a lightsaber.

[Llyranor]

they start at 2d8 and max at 5d8 (for a consular) and 6d8 (for a guardian)

Why wasn't this implemented in KOTOR?

[Judge Hades]

If Obsidian can make the sequel closer to the PnP version I would be happy. Same story quality and better rules implementation could carry the game quite well.

[Aegeri]

If Obsidian can make the sequel closer to the PnP version I would be happy. Same story quality and better rules implementation could carry the game quite well.

Non spammable force powers would be a brilliant start. Force wave makes the game a joke :/

[Darque]

they start at 2d8 and max at 5d8 (for a consular) and 6d8 (for a guardian)

Why wasn't this implemented in KOTOR?

Probably because the game was "loosely" based on d20 Star Wars.

[neriana]

I actually found throw lightsaber extremely useful. Killed Malak with it, in fact . My PC was a scoundrel/consular, so I kept her away from the battle as much as possible.

 

Perhaps lightsabers could be tougher to assemble and have more complex upgrade options. Also, I don't think any Jedi should just be able to pick up any lightsaber and use it properly. Aren't they supposed to be very personal weapons?

 

And maybe only the very coolest swords, like the ones you find in the tomb on Korriban, should have cortosis weave. Or maybe none of them should. There weren't any "normal" swords in the movies (ep. 4-6), were there? If you weren't a Jedi, you used a blaster. Or a crossbow .

[Judge Hades]

I just want to make a dedicated Han Solo/Lando type character who uses his tongue and only a blaster when the deal goes bad. I find all the swords rather silly. You either had swords or energy weapons and nothing in bewteen. Where the hell are the slug throwers?

[severxsever]

I hate calls for realism in video games. I think I'll lobotomize myself via taking a dive off the Chrysler building if someone decides to bring up Volumetric Encumberment.

 

The Star Wars universe wasn't exactly all that logical to begin with, you know; I think it's a tad ridiculous to place constraints upon a product that the archetype it is based on never had to work under.

[Judge Hades]

Yeah, but there needs to be some logic put in place otherwise things just get silly.

[severxsever]

There is roughly the same amount of logic in KotOR as is found in any other Star Wars based product, I believe.

[Atreides]

I just want to make a dedicated Han Solo/Lando type character who uses his tongue and only a blaster when the deal goes bad. I find all the swords rather silly. You either had swords or energy weapons and nothing in bewteen. Where the hell are the slug throwers?

Iirc KOTOR's supposed to be a few k years before the movies. Many things are familiar but trends do change (or regress in this case). Consider our own world as an example on how weapon trends have radically changed.

[MrBrown]

The problem with the instant-kill/save vs. death stuff is, IMO, not in the fact that it kills stuff quickly, but rather that when implemented in most RPGs it tends to make it just a game of chance rather than requiring any skill from the player.

 

If lightsabers would almost always kill on one hit in an SW game, then the majority of combat would just be move next to enemy -> attack -> hope you hit and he doesn't -> reload if he does. Not much player input, not much fun.

 

I don't think making combat extremely dangerous like this is bad itself, the developers just need to make certain it doesn't end up a game of %s. One way to do this, for instance, would be to simply have a large party where the death or incapacitation of a single character doesn't matter much.

 

More action oriented games are, of course, a totally different matter. Hitting and dodging the enemy itself takes alot of player involvement.

[deganawida]

If I were to pick a class from the pnp version I would have prefered Force Adept... still a force user... but NOT a jedi.

This is similar to something that I've actually toyed around with as far as making suggestions goes. Why do you have to be associated with the Jedi Council at all? Imagine a situation where you are Padawan to a famous Master, and the Council splits with half going Dark Side and half going Light. Suddenly, your Master comes to you and asks you to join the Sith. You refuse, and the Master, who is hiding his affiliation, denounces you to the remaining Light-Side members of the Council as a Sith. Now, you're on the run, an experienced Jedi, forced to act outside of the Council to clear your name and return balance to the Force.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

This is similar to something that I've actually toyed around with as far as making suggestions goes. Why do you have to be associated with the Jedi Council at all? Imagine a situation where you are Padawan to a famous Master, and the Council splits with half going Dark Side and half going Light. Suddenly, your Master comes to you and asks you to join the Sith. You refuse, and the Master, who is hiding his affiliation, denounces you to the remaining Light-Side members of the Council as a Sith. Now, you're on the run, an experienced Jedi, forced to act outside of the Council to clear your name and return balance to the Force.

They should know the truth of it right away. Thats why I think in KOTOR if you lie to them as Revan they are fully aware of it.

 

They need you to retrace your steps to find the StarForge whatever side you are on. Only Bastila is supposed to kill you once you have found out the location if your not playing along.

 

Not quite sure what happens shortly before EP I but its clear from what Yoda says that they can no longer sense the dark side. Which must mean that prior to that they could....

 

You can always be a Maverik like Qui Gon or the game could be set during the purge. But thats unlikely before EPIII.