Armee Troika

[thepixiesrock]

I used to think you guys just exaggerated about Volourn. I didn't actually know he was really like this. I always used to just skip his posts.

[Pop]

EA made the Burnout series, which were dumb, awesome fun. Especially 3. That's still fun, and it has no story at all, which means they did something right for me :D

 

As for Troika... yeah, I grew to really like Bloodlines, Arcanum was alright (really the epitome of RP in a computer game, though. Most every character played differently) and I couldn't get past 15 minutes of ToEE.

 

Anybody know what the big 3 devs from Troika are doing?

[Arkan]

"We'll you're right about one thing. We did make them fail. We are all to blame"

 

Nope. There's only one group of people responsible for Troika's success or fialure, and that's Troika.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What, you can grasp your own sarcasm but not others'?

[Volourn]

WOW!

[Dark_Raven]

No, you guys are all wrong.

 

Troika went out of business because their games are the most complicated and complex software ever created and publishers didn't know how to market it, and consumers just don't udnersatand them.

 

They don't have bugs. They have design decisions beyond us 'normals' (not that I'm normal, heh) comprehension.

 

Hence, they didn't fail; we did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like you today, stay that course.

[Dark_Raven]

I'm currently stuck trying to complete Vampire Bloodlines

lousy gruddamn slug lady. Lousy game not letting me load the jeagerspas with rock salt.

. And was just thinking: what the hell happened to all the bright talented chaps who made this now that Troika sank without trace?

 

And for that matter, why did they sink?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some of them went to Obs and some other companies. I don't know what happen to the big names like Tim Cain and Leonard.

[Atreides]

I hate EA they bought some great franchises (Ultima, Dungeon Keeper, Populous, Syndicate) just to screw them up, or ignore.

Ea is the biggest Bad Guy in computer gaming market, it has the style of Sauron from LOTR or Crimsong King from The Dark Tower, screw things just to screw them(cancelling Dungeon Keeper 3 after the big succes of DK2, and firing almost whole team of Bullfrog? So Why the (Big)F they've bought this company?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah I do wish they'd continue the Dungeon Keeper line. I do think that it was getting a little stale and needed some fresh ideas though. Something like a more involving story where you start out as a lackey to a real Keeper, eventually starting your own rival dungeon to overthrow your Master and then taking over.

 

The lackey thing would work out well in the early tutorial part too. Your game could start where the Master just conquered some area and you're in charge of easy cleaning up and doing some basic stuff. Then you get more complex tasks from the Master till you're good enough/accumulate enough power/support to challenge him/her.

[Dagon]

Some of them went to Obs and some other companies. I don't know what happen to the big names like Tim Cain and Leonard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I said before Leonard Boyarky works now for Blizzard.

[Dhruin]

That's not quite true. Valve finished Source in Summer 2002, that's what Gabe said, and that's the version Troika got.

While not perfectly optimizied, I wouldn't say it was buggy. I think Troika just didn't quite understand how to use it properly (from 2D to 3D is always a hard transation the first time).

They also ripped out the native sound-system (made it with Miles instead of using Valves rocket-solid sound-system), and had to do alterations with the scripting (they used an outdated version of Python...hence some broken Quests I presume?).

Also, from what I've observed, the Leveldesign was sloppy (see 2D to 3D transition). Like Santa Monica, where the upper part and the Sewers where one single map, therefor the choppy framerates.

On top of that, I didn't quite get the feeling Troika since then had any contact with Valve for updates/technical support whatsoever. Activision didn't seem to care about it either.

While those are factors that had to seen into consideration, it's not an excuse Troika messed up the last third of the game (messy dumb action). That's clearly a sign of sloppiness. And that for a game that was supposed to come out in Summer 2004....they had enough time to fix that, instead they just sat on it waiting till HL2 was released.

That's just too bad. Troika was sloppy and Activision didn't care about it's own product too much.  It was a dead born child.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't want to argue whether Troika were "sloppy" or a bunch of other adjectives but you're way off the mark on several things.

 

Source was still in full development and new versions were being given to Troika regularly, which often completely broke existing systems. Ultimately, they had to stick with a much older version than HL2 shipped with, so they could actually finish and test. The sound system wasn't complete at the time (and many people still have problems with Source sound, so it isn't perfect) and the game didn't sit waiting for HL2's release - they worked on it to the end. Have a read of the wikipedia entry and I can dig up further quotes if you need them.

 

I don't know why this urban rumour of Vampire: Bloodlines being complete with Troika sitting around doing nothing for months persists, when this has been denied by both Troika and Activision over and over.

[Morgoth]

I don't know why this urban rumour of Vampire: Bloodlines being complete with Troika sitting around doing nothing for months persists, when this has been denied by both Troika and Activision over and over.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course they denied it, would look pretty bad otherwise in the public. The last third was rushed, that's a matter of fact, for a game that was postponed several times due to the late release date of HL2.

And again, Source was pretty much completed in Summer 2002. Valve had to work on their own game as well, after all. Remember the E3 2003 gameplay? Don't tell me that one appeared buggy or slow to you. Valve just managed their own tech better than Troika did.

[Dark_Raven]

Some of them went to Obs and some other companies. I don't know what happen to the big names like Tim Cain and Leonard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I said before Leonard Boyarky works now for Blizzard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Glad to see he went some place that will like his talent.

[Hurlshort]

Making games doesn't seem like any easy business to me, particularly the complex RPG's that Troika was tackling. The fact is, we are still playing and talking about games like Arcanum and Bloodlines, so they clearly did some good stuff.

[Morgoth]

Some of them went to Obs and some other companies. I don't know what happen to the big names like Tim Cain and Leonard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I said before Leonard Boyarky works now for Blizzard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Glad to see he went some place that will like his talent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's just hope Leon isn't in charge as an Art Director for any other girlish-looking games like WoW.

Leon and Starcraft 2! I want terrifying slimy Zerg and chain-smoking, dirty Space Marines crafted my Leons superior Art skills!

[Dark_Raven]

Sounds awesome.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

I don't know why this urban rumour of Vampire: Bloodlines being complete with Troika sitting around doing nothing for months persists, when this has been denied by both Troika and Activision over and over.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course they denied it, would look pretty bad otherwise in the public. The last third was rushed, that's a matter of fact, for a game that was postponed several times due to the late release date of HL2.

And again, Source was pretty much completed in Summer 2002. Valve had to work on their own game as well, after all. Remember the E3 2003 gameplay? Don't tell me that one appeared buggy or slow to you. Valve just managed their own tech better than Troika did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There is no way any company can actually sit around on a game, it's just not possible, activision wouldn't allow it, and nobody in the industry would be happy to do such a thing. Milestones in the industry may seem reasonable when originally agreed, but later down the line it can almost seem an impossible task.

 

Working with a game engine that's still being developed is kinda like painting a picture and mixing the paints on the canvas and hoping you get the shade right everytime you start over on a new day. One day, the code works, the next it's broken and needs rewriting/editing this is a potential nightmare in itself as your rewrite may break the original, or better still, become broken again at a later date.

Edited September 20, 2006 by @\NightandtheShape/@

[alanschu]

If Troika had to start laying people off due to financial reasons, it's entirely possible that the game essentially had a skeleton staff on it, at which point they aren't doing anything more than just sitting on the game.

 

Given they were able to conveniently release the game the second Half-Life 2 was released (literally the same day), I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sitting around.

Edited September 20, 2006 by alanschu

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

If Troika had to start laying people off due to financial reasons, it's entirely possible that the game essentially had a skeleton staff on it, at which point they aren't doing anything more than just sitting on the game.

 

Given they were able to conveniently release the game the second Half-Life 2 was released (literally the same day), I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sitting around.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If so, that would be most likely due to having nothing to do, not because they had any option and chose not to.

 

I don't count that so much as sitting on anything.

[alanschu]

If so, that would be most likely due to having nothing to do, not because they had any option and chose not to.

 

I don't count that so much as sitting on anything.

 

I'm not making any suppositions about the reasons behind them "sitting" on the game. Just the fact that it's possible that there was little to no actual work being done on the project.

 

As for having "nothing to do," I'm not so convinced, given the game wasn't released in pristine condition.

 

I never implied that they actively decided to stop working on it, despite being able to work on it.

[Llyranor]

Wasn't Troika already 'dead' before Bloodlines even shipped?

[Slowtrain]

Was Troika under some kind of contract with Valve that Troika couldn't release their game until HL2 shipped? That woudl make sense if Valve wanted to make a bigger splash with their engine.

 

IIRC, BIS was not allowed to do certain things in the Infinity Engine for IWD because Bio wanted to be the first to do them in BG2.

[alanschu]

I believe they had already significantly downsized.

 

IIRC they officially closed up shop once the patch came out.

[Dark_Raven]

Troika wiki with various links.

 

What staff they had were working for free when they did the last Bloodlines patch.

[alanschu]

That link doesn't seem to be commenting on the latest Bloodlines patch being made for free.

[Dark_Raven]

Link from there to Bloodlines wiki

 

Patches

 

There were still many technical and playbility bugs in the released version of Bloodlines, but none were judged to be serious enough to further delay shipping the game. After Bloodlines was released to the public, Activision compiled a list of problems customers were reporting to its customer service department and on various Vampire websites. It then authorized Troika to spend a week creating on a patch to address the most serious issues. However, Troika's inability to find revenue from another project had already forced the developer to lay off all its employees in two waves, except for the three owners: Jason Anderson, Leonard Boyarsky and Tim Cain. Fortunately, several employees stayed on without pay to work on the Version 1.2 patch, which after another three-week round of testing, was released on December 22, 2004.

 

This was to be Troika's final patch despite the number of bugs still remaining. Unable to find additional work, Troika closed its offices for good in February 2005.[3], but a large dedicated fan base of Bloodlines remained to create and release unofficial patches to address most of the remaining bugs and even restore content not available in the retail game, like there histories mode, unused models, and additional dialog text. These patches were started by Dan Upright and then continued by Werner Spahl, with huge input from the Bloodlines community. The latest unofficial patch is version 2.9

[alanschu]

Hmmmm.

 

That is VERY surprising. Most people still have those annoying things like lives and responsibilities that get in the way of doing stuff for free.

 

Too bad it's hard to verify without some sort of official source.