astr0creep Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 Recreation ≠ waste of time. Try working without a break. Go. See the problem? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There is no problem. We(humans) need to waste time. http://entertainmentandbeyond.blogspot.com/
Pidesco Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 I've stayed up over 24 hours without sleep. Your brain turns to mush. You should try 44 hours without sleeping. You start having visions. "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist I am Dan Quayle of the Romans. I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands. Heja Sverige!! Everyone should cuffawkle more. The wrench is your friend.
Moose Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 Okay ... try working without sleeping. Go. Let us know what happens. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's what geniuses like Einstein and Newton used to do... and it led them to produce some of their finest works. Not a good argument for recreation... There are none that are right, only strong of opinion. There are none that are wrong, only ignorant of facts
StillLife Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 Compared to most of the games released as RPGs - I hate the genre. -Gameplay through combat is usually terribly easy, plus there's generally way too much of it. -I don't really care about stat tweaking, never have. Especially when it's pointless as a result of what I mentioned above. -If I want a good story, I read a book - I don't buy a $50 computer game. -I hate fantasy settings, especially prissy elves. There are three things I look for in video games billing themselves as RPGs: Exploration, immersion, and role-playing. All too often, those tend to get placed on the backburner in CRPG design though. I don't blame developers for making games that way. I've come to the conclusion I'm just a freak of nature in my preferences, and most people are focused on those aspects I dislike when buying an RPG. So in reality, I don't like RPGs.
Arkan Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 Tiramissu, oh yeah! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta
Diamond Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 That's what geniuses like Einstein and Newton used to do... and it led them to produce some of their finest works. Not a good argument for recreation... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Does it mean if you work nights and days you will become a new Einstein? No. Will you burn out? Yes. An (average) human being needs rest from usual activities, otherwise productivity declines.
Cantousent Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 Okay ... try working without sleeping. Go. Let us know what happens. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's what geniuses like Einstein and Newton used to do... and it led them to produce some of their finest works. Not a good argument for recreation... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> An entire lifetime spent without sleep? Not much chance. The point is, all humans require both sleep and recreation. The fact that some humans are able to deny themselves both sleep and recreation for short (and I mean short) periods of time only serves to highlight the necessity of sleep and recreation. Furthermore, what serves to transcend waste and move into useful? If it's just something as simple as surviving and procreating, then both Einstein and Newton wasted their time. Is it the advancement of knowledge? Is writing the great American novel a worthy endeavor while writing a six dollar fantasy novel a waste? Aristotle suggested that the good man played so that he could work. A less good man works so he can play. Let's take our friend, Newton. I'm a great admirer of Sir Isaac, but he had all sort of controversial ideas. For example, he not only believed in God, but he devoted quite a bit of energy arguing for God's existence. Is that a waste of time? Perhaps Newton could have contributed even more to science if he had not suffered from a mental breakdown. Did he inflict his mental breakdown on himself by refraining from recreation and sleep? The point is, humans need recreation and sleep. We can, for short periods of time, maybe days, refrain from sleep, but it is a necessity and we will eventually sleep, whether we so desire or not. Our minds work best with some recreation, or at least the promise of recreation. Gaming isn't a waste of time. ...But arguing that gaming is a waste might be a waste. Arguing that gaming is not a waste of time is, for me, recreation. hahaha Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Judge Hades Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) Ginthaeriel, if you don't want to game then don't game. If you no longer want to play CRPGs then don't F***ing play CRPGs. Don't b**ch at us that CRPGs are a waste of time. How a person uses their time is their own f***ing business and not yours. Don't want to play CRPGs, then don't. Just don't be a lil' b**ch about it. Sheesh. Edited May 24, 2006 by Judge Hades
Moose Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 Does it mean if you work nights and days you will become a new Einstein? No. Will you burn out? Yes. An (average) human being needs rest from usual activities, otherwise productivity declines. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You need to go back to school. These days everyone's a genius! It's just a matter of unlocking their potential There are none that are right, only strong of opinion. There are none that are wrong, only ignorant of facts
Cantousent Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 Moose, you cynical jerk. hahaha Wow, Hades really went off on Ginthaeriel. Jeez. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Llyranor Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 PMS mode on! (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
astr0creep Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 PMS mode on! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I thought Hades was a man. Or a boy. You can learn something every day! http://entertainmentandbeyond.blogspot.com/
Judge Hades Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 Whatever. Bottomline, you either game or you don't. If you think gaming is a waste of time, then don't game. Don't go on a gaming forum b**ching and moaning about how gaming is a waste of time. If Ginthaeriel doesn't want to play games then that is his cjhoice. Fine. I don't give a smeg. If he wants to get in my face about how gaming is a waste of time then I will get in his face. Plain and bloody simple. If you F***s don't like what I am saying there is a nice little Ignore button. Use it or shut up.
Llyranor Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 Hahahaahahahhahahhahahhahah (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Azarkon Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) Err, seems like asking whether CRPGs are a waste of time was the wrong way to start this thread, Gin. I think the problem you're really getting at is that CRPGs seem a mish-mosh of other genres, where each of its component parts are better done by some other form of entertainment. Now, I'd buy that argument, except I think that you're wrong. Think about what gets lumped together as a CRPG. Is it because of the action? No, because shooters and action games do them better. The story? Adventure games can also have good stories. The characters? Not really, as the presence of such games as Might and Magic & IWD shows. Freedom of world exploration? But many RPGs are linear. The roleplaying? Perhaps, but what's roleplaying? It's certainly not just dialogue choices (Diablo, M&M), and it sure isn't the freedom to play a role (JRPGs), nor the ability to make an impact on the world (when's the last time this was implemented well?). How do you explain a genre with games like Diablo on one hand and PS:T on the other? The unique aspect of RPG gameplay, I think, comes down to *player character development* followed by the utility of this development in the RPG world. All games claiming to be RPGs possess this characteristic, even if they approach it differently. Predominantly, the methodology of PC development has been increasing martial prowess. Unsurprising, as this genre began not as a storytelling medium but as a sort of combat adventure simulator with levels. Whether it be Western or Japanese, action or story-driven, the gameplay of a RPG is defined by its leveling system. Now, you might argue that other games offer a semblance of character development in the form of new weapons, power-ups, or whatnot, but it's clear that they are vastly inferior to RPGs in every aspect of this particular domain. Hence, PC development is what I'd term the essence of RPGs, if such an essence indeed exists, and it's the eccentric offering of this genre that no other genre can match. The obvious next question, then, is why PC development is attractive. One hypothesis is that it taps into the psychological affinity for growth and advancement inherent to human beings. Whether that's guesswork or theory is meat for another thread, but the certainty of the RPG's allure cannot be denied, I think. When you pose the question: are RPGs a waste of time, the first retort that comes to mind is to contradict the utilitarian stance (aren't all forms of entertainment a waste of time?) But the second point, which I think is far more significant, is *why* RPGs seem a waste of time compared to other mediums, and here I think you're missing a significant idiosyncrasy of the genre that has attracted players again and again into the fold. Why are modern RPGs fun? There maybe many reasons, from graphics to music to story to roleplaying. But that's no different than any other genre in the throes of mass commercialization, wherein the gameplay is often overshadowed by the leaps of technological virtuosity that's lured many "casual" players. Yet if you look at it from the perspective of gaming history, you'll quickly see that RPGs were there at the beginning, and that the line of RPGs has never diminished, only taken different forms at different epochs of history. From the olden days of Wizardry and Ultima, to the new Renaissance of the Fallouts and the Infinity Engine games, to the unfaultering stream of JRPGs, and the mass commercialized action RPG and MMORPG, the genre is as diverse as it is enduring. It's easy to point at the multivalency of RPGs as a sign of its mongrel nature, but that's only because we've forgotten, after all these years, what CRPGs have never lost. For despite the great changes that's come to the genre, despite its players being dazzled by all the cinematic techniques that's come to dominate the genre, the RPG has kept its soul. And this soul, dating back to the very first RPG and which will endure till the last, is a stream that's never run dry. Edited May 24, 2006 by Azarkon There are doors
Cantousent Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 Hades, dude, what's wrong? Here, let me give you a drink. :Eldar's handing Hades the beverage of his choice, taking his coat, and offering him a chair icon: Ginthaeriel is just going through one of those gamer angst moments we all have. Well, some of us have. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
howling1 Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 PMS mode on! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I thought Hades was a man. Ain't gonna touch that with a ten foot Pole, ... Or an eight foot Hungarian... "For The Love Of Carnage And Discord, I Bring Annihilation And Cheap Beer!" - Mad Dwarf "Watch that howling1. His sig used to eat cities." - Synaesthesia "Beat me with a wet noodle huh? " - Feargus Urquhart "the term "Board Troll" ain't a thing ta be proud o', lads" - Sargallath Abraxium "The line between comedy and tragedy is pretty thin in these parts." - Overseer " Grrr... ...Argh." - Darque
Nick_i_am Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 ROFLASFNKJSLAHFSAJKFHLJKSA Hades x D_R go go go. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Cantousent Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 Good Lord, that was beautfiful, Azarkon. I'm jealous of your rant. I say that without either irony or sarcasm. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Judge Hades Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 Llyr, that is a damn good insult. Did your mommy come up with that one for you? She must be real proud of you using a bioloigcal function of the female gender of our species in such a damn creative way. F***ING GOOD JOB ON YOU!
Nick_i_am Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 Volowned. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Llyranor Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 Hahahaahahahahahahahahahaha (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Darque Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 Recreation ≠ waste of time. Try working without a break. Go. See the problem? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That sums up what I would have said.
Volourn Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 "hahaha Wow, Hades really went off on Ginthaeriel." Hades is in one of those moods he gets into now and then. It'll pass. As for the thread topic, if it's not trolling it sure is darn close to it. Spamming that games are a waste of time on a gaming forum is , well, just asking for flames which is basically what trolling is. It's akin to those go to a forum just to say x game sucks and NOT expecting those who like the game to fire back. LOLOLOLOLOLOLLIPOP DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
StillLife Posted May 24, 2006 Posted May 24, 2006 "hahaha Wow, Hades really went off on Ginthaeriel." Hades is in one of those moods he gets into now and then. It'll pass. As for the thread topic, if it's not trolling it sure is darn close to it. Spamming that games are a waste of time on a gaming forum is , well, just asking for flames which is basically what trolling is. It's akin to those go to a forum just to say x game sucks and NOT expecting those who like the game to fire back. LOLOLOLOLOLOLLIPOP <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But he wasn't claiming computer games are a waste of time: Let's remember why we play computer games in the first place: for entertainment. Wouldn't hacking away for an hour in Prince of Persia or God of War, sniping away in Counterstrike for thirty minutes, or unwinding with a mission in GTA be much more effective in that measure than having to play for three hours in an RPG before you actually crank any REAL fun out of it? Seriously, does anyone else consider the fifteen minutes spent picking up all the "phat lewt" that the monsters dropped in that dungeon a fifteen minutes wasted? The guy was putting out a hypothetical question of whether or not CRPGs have enough entertainment value to justify the time investment and purchase price compared to other game genres. It's a reasonable question, and he gave some decent examples of why he's not sure. I don't know what the F Hades got all up in arms over. I get the feeling some of you people just read the first few lines of Ginth's post before typing down a knee-jerk reaction.
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