NWN2 only 20 hours long?

[Gromnir]

Just one more time, I thought I'd point out that we're taking a twice translated statement, attributed to someone who hasn't played the game, as the basis for the length of NWN2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

am thinking you is being maybe a bit naive at this point. if translation were wrong you is thinking that some obsidian person would have corrected us... not let Gromnir and others spreads our sales dampening gossip all over the internet. am not got no swollen head neither. we recognize that we is just a gnat and that these rumors will still touch relatie few potential purchasers... but if you hs been 'round long 'nuff (and we know you has,) you will recognize that this is exactly the kinda situation in which fergie manages suck it up and jumps into the shallow end of the pool with the rest of us losers. as has been noted before, the chief function of these boards is to advertise obsidian games... feedback to improve games is a nice ancillary benefit, but hardly cause to pay for the web space and maint.

 

no fergie and no denial... just recognition that maybe fergie didn't have 'nuff info to be accurate on hours.

 

so keeps repeating eldar, but sometimes silence IS an admission... ask mr. bonds if you don't believe us.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Dark_Raven]

no fergie and no denial... just recognition that maybe fergie didn't have 'nuff info to be accurate on hours.

 

so keeps repeating eldar, but sometimes silence IS an admission... ask mr. bonds if you don't believe us.

 

HA! Good Fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good one Gromnir.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Last RPG I played on a console was 100+ hours. And when it ended I wanted more. That's quality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Which game was it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

DQ VIII

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Bottom line is that this is Volo's opinion. It doesn't have to be the same as your's, Mkreku, or yours SP. Though, I'll admit, he could be a bit less condescending and outright jerky about it. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't actually have a problem with his "opinion" except that it's based on very little playtime to make those sorts of claims. It would be like proclaiming the OC as complete crap having only played the prologue. And Volo would be the first to jump on anyone who said that.

 

All RPGs take time to come up to speed. A 100 hour + one will take longer to do so than a 20 hour one.

[Cantousent]

I think, if he's willing to say it to a German newspaper, Feargus should be willing to say it to us here. That's true.

 

As the basis for some sort of reliable prediciton, I think the statement sucks. However, I agree that it's caused enough conjecture that maybe, just maybe, Feargus could give us the skinny. He should either come in and disavow the review, confirm what it says, or otherwise respond. I don't think he cares about this board one way or the other. Furthermore, he probably thinks the game will sell just fine regardless of what we say. He's probably right.

 

Still, would it hurt for him to come here and make a statement when he has apparently given one to a German establishment? If he didn't make such a statement, he could, at the very least, come in and say he said no such thing.

[Volourn]

What offending posts? Did I miss some people saying mean things to me because they disagree with my opinion? Darn. Too bad.

 

 

 

"Though, I'll admit, he could be a bit less condescending and outright jerky about it. "

 

Welll... when I played it I expected it to continue the great legacy of the DW/DQ series, and with all the praise that's been heaped on it; I thought I was in for a treat. Sadly, I was wrong.

Edited April 24, 2006 by Volourn

[Llyranor]

Erm, what did you think of DQ7, then?

[mkreku]

Feargus doesn't fraternize with the common rabble.

[Gromnir]

Feargus doesn't fraternize with the common rabble.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

he does wade into the kiddie pool on occasion... but it requires things to be getting out of hand before he is willing to strap on the water wings.

 

...

 

not that Gromnir is suggesting that people stir things up just to get a fergie response.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[LoneWolf16]

Don't actually have a problem with his "opinion" except that it's based on very little playtime to make those sorts of claims. It would be like proclaiming the OC as complete crap having only played the prologue. And Volo would be the first to jump on anyone who said that.

 

All RPGs take time to come up to speed. A 100 hour + one will take longer to do so than a 20 hour one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True. Much better to have played it to fruition before giving an opinion, especially one as venomous as that, Volo.

Edited April 24, 2006 by LoneWolf16

[Cantousent]

Feargus doesn't fraternize with the common rabble.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

he does wade into the kiddie pool on occasion... but it requires things to be getting out of hand before he is willing to strap on the water wings.

 

...

 

not that Gromnir is suggesting that people stir things up just to get a fergie response.

 

HA! Good Fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Feargus isn't a regular here. That means I pretty much don't pay much attention to him. ...But he's still the head of Obsidian and Obsidian runs these boards.

 

There are a variety of possiblities, but I think the biggest ones are:

 

1)He doesn't care what we do or say here

 

2)He knows there's some conjecture, which is probably not isolated to this board, but doesn't have an answer

 

3)The only answers he can give will be upsetting or irritating to one segment or another, so he's letting regulars, like Sawyer and Joseph, take the heat while he sits back in silence.

 

I'm with Gromnir, he should at least give some sort of response, but it's just as likely that silence, no matter how bad, is better than giving us word.

[Surreptishus]

Maybe someone could ask fergie for clarification in the questions thread in Obs General. That is if Fio let you ask.

[Volourn]

No. He "shouldn't" do anything. He has more important things to do then talk with this rabble. He owes us *nothing*.

 

 

LoneWolf, I don't see the point of continuing to play a game I view as poo poo. Games are supposed to be fun; not a chore. I got real life for that. If a game can't draw me in after a couple of hours than the game sin't worth investing another 20, 40, 60+ hours to.

 

Llyr, it was meh. Honestly, the last real great (as opposed to merely good or meh) DW game I remember playing was DW4. Coincidently (or not) I beleive it was the last one to go by Dragon Warrior in North Amerika. LOL

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Llyr, it was meh. Honestly, the last real great (as opposed to merely good or meh) DW game I remember playing was DW4. Coincidently (or not) I beleive it was the last one to go by Dragon Warrior in North Amerika. LOL

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Welll... when I played it I expected it to continue the great legacy of the DW/DQ series, and with all the praise that's been heaped on it; I thought I was in for a treat. Sadly, I was wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

[Dark_Raven]

What offending posts? Did I miss some people saying mean things to me because they disagree with my opinion? Darn. Too bad.

 

 

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am afraid you are not that important to have someone disagree with you in that manner.

[Shadowstrider]

Pssst... Sawyer, mind telling the moderator to stop insulting people?

[Hassat Hunter]

Nope.  But what do I know, I forgot that you are the one with mountains of experience in this field, given all the "smart" things you are always saying.  Besides, the situation you describe is quite different from a player selling quest items.

 

"smart" things, eh. Well, if I have been into a game for 40 hours and then notice I cannot proceed because I sold the crystal to the seller and his stock resetted or he died an aganizing dead... or that I dropped that item because it was useless and now it vanished I doubt I will go:

"Ah, it is the way the designers wanted... let's restart then and do it right next time"... I sincerly doubt you will do so either...

And the situation I displayed was so because you said that plotcritical elements that are missing is dev. design and thus never a "bug" and I used that to make a comparement with ADVENTURES where that (using of plotcritical elements) is all what makes the game. If thus all that stuff was intended why does an adventure company has QA to weed out all of said "decisions"?

Allowing a player NOT to advance in the MAIN PLOT due to a mission item/trigger etc. is not bad design that should be tolerated and be fixed either before release (good companies) or immediately in the first patch (the worse companies)

 

Failing to protect players from their own stupidity is not a bug.  Otherwise, letting someone even DROP a quest item would be considered a bug.

 

And so does Oblivion and such. Would you really be happy if you were at half Baldur's Gate 2 and had to replay it due to "own stupidity"? And it doesn't even has to be items in journal. It could also be that in order to proceed to area X you had to use a lever in area Y. But that area cannot be returned too so if you forget or didn't knew you are screwed.

Call it whatever you wan't but having stuff like that in games makes you get a rep of making games with Game-stopping issues. Which is alot worse than "that single wall is not solid". I also sincerly doubt any dev has an intention as to make players get stuck on the main plot... unless you have sadistic devs, but they would never survive long on the market.

 

More ignorance than stupidity...say you don't know something is a quest item and drop it some time along the way, only to end up in that one area where you need that particular item...that's bad design, and not the player's fault. Though I think you've already said that.

 

And that "bad design" is also called "bug"... There should be save-guarding that allow gamers to be always able to proceed on the main quest. If devs are not up to the task of protecting Quest-specific items someway they just have to do without, don't you think?

 

FOR ADDITIONAL CLARIFICATION...LET'S TAKE ONE OF BIS' DESIGN DECISIONS:

PS:T; getting the love letter for one of the ladies in the Brothel. If you pissed off the owner of the print shop you could no longer do this. AND it was needed for the Main Quest to continue. Did BIS' do as Alanschu suggested and do a "own fault, you should have known 5 hours before you even came into the brother not to piss off the guy because he was needed"; Restart game? Nah, they added an alternative way of gaining the letter in in the patch. Clear enough now or still not?

Edited April 24, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[Volourn]

"Pssst... Sawyer, mind telling the moderator to stop insulting people?"

 

Who she insult? Certaibly not me. In fact, I agree with her assessment.

 

SP, the legacy I speak of are the great games, and even the decent ones. DQ8 couldn't even fit the threshold of the later games in the series let alone the awesomeness of the earlier ones.

Edited April 24, 2006 by Volourn

[Craigboy2]

Because I know that I tend to get a handle of games faster and play the game efficiently.  It took me 20 to 25 hours to beat IWD 2.  It took me 12 hours to beat BGDA.  It took me 28 hours to beat KotOR 2.  And so forth and so on.

Wow on your first playthrough you beat IWD2 faster than QA sprinters who had worked on it for months. Somehow, I think you're exaggerating. My first playthrough of IWD2 took 80+ hours and I was the lead designer. It was rare in the extreme that I had to reload for any battle and I knew how all of the puzzled worked.

 

And Feargus' initial estimates for IWD2 were 30-40 hours. Even if you are, in fact, the most amazing CRPG player ever, those who finished IWD2 typically clocked far more than 30-40 hours on it.

 

You guys spout estimate times, but each and every time I play a game I am under that estimate time by a good 25 to 50 percent.  So, Feargus says 20, I expect to beat the game in 10 to 15.  Not worth my time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So basically you don't care what the actual player-stated length of the game is on release, you're going to base your purchase on what the head of the company (who, like me, hasn't played through the game from beginning to end) says months prior to release?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He's not very smart Mr. Sawyer.

[Hassat Hunter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bug

 

Read it...if that is too difficult here the main part:

A software bug is an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program that prevents it from working as intended, or produces an incorrect result. Bugs arise from mistakes and errors, made by people, in either a program's source code or its design

 

Edit: And now please don't start the 'but it is fully editable and thus only the opinion of a fellow fool' crap, okay?

Edit2: Report is a nice function, no...

Edited April 25, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[Shadowstrider]

Poor design is not a bug.

 

A bug prevents something from working as it was intended or designed.

[Bokishi]

A bug is usually a mistake. Design is intentional.

[Hassat Hunter]

So if I ever find a game-stopping glitch in a game it was because the creators explicitely wanted it in there. I will keep that in mind with the gamestopping glitches BIS/OE put in PS:T and Kotor2...

 

Ofcourse OE intended that we should never leave Onderon Palace if we said the wrong thing... silly me with my glitch/bugreport about that...

Edited April 25, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[alanschu]

Report away.

 

Have fun.

 

I have heard that definition before, and know few programmers that adhere to it in that way. Mostly because it also encompasses trivial things like typoes.

 

It's also why Microsoft critics are able to inflate the number of bugs in Windows. Oh, Microsoft missed a comma, bugCount++.

[Bokishi]

So if I ever find a game-stopping glitch in a game it was because the creators explicitely wanted it in there. I will keep that in mind with the gamestopping glitches BIS/OE put in PS:T and Kotor2...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

WTF