NWN2 only 20 hours long?

[~Di]

To point, I personally prefer longer games myself; but there's nothing wrong with someone wanting shorter games. There *is* soemthing wrong with people looking down on those who do, however..

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No more so than deliberately misinterpreting a generalized statement in order to personally criticize someone you dislike.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

"If someone said they played Jade Empire for 20 minutes and said it sucked I expect you would have something to say about it."

 

LOL According to some around here 20 minutes of JE would mean half the game!

 

R00LFES! :D

 

 

"Just how far did you get in your "few hours" anyway ?"

 

It's been awhile, and like I said the game wa sso boring and pretty much forced me to quit and also attempt to wipe it from memory. I beleive I made it to some castle.

 

The biggest problem with the game for me was that it keeps the worst parts olf the Japanese RPG while getting rid of the charm which is engaging characters, and decent combat.

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Sounds to me like you quit before you got any skills.

[alanschu]

It's kind of stating the obvious when someone says they wouldn't mind an excellent game to be longer.

 

Just magically making the game longer does not guarantee that the quality of the game would remain constant though.

[Volourn]

Huh? Who says I dislike you? I certainly don't. In fact, you are usually cool. But, your attack on those who prefer shorter games by simplifying their opinion by referring to them as 'fanbois' was the attack.

 

Don't get mad because I pointed that out.

 

 

"Sounds to me like you quit before you got any skills."

 

Perhaps. Don't really remember the character system all that much.

Edited April 24, 2006 by Volourn

[Llyranor]

It's kind of stating the obvious when someone says they wouldn't mind an excellent game to be longer.

I wouldn't!!1!! BECAUSE I'M A FANBOY!!!111

[Nick_i_am]

Actually, being a fanboy of an excellent game is pretty rare these days too.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I found Drakengard II to be excellent. But I wouldnt have minded it 20 hours shorter. They had the perfect point to end the story but then it carried on for another 20 hours.

 

Granted an 80 hour action RPG is something of a rarity.

[deganawida]

Many console games defy your characterization of them all as being shallow/short.

 

This is very true. One of the best games that I have ever played, and have been playing at least once a year for the last 8 years, takes me two to four hours to beat. This game has been universally hailed as one of the great console games, and contributed significantly to the rise of an entire gaming genre. The game? Metal Gear Solid. Though not the first Metal Gear game (which was quite good in its own right), it has still spawned 3 sequels, and created (with Thief: The Dark Project) the modern-day stealth-action game genre.

 

While not a role-playing game, the basic design concepts of MGS are virtually identical to those found in the common CRPG. Further, MGS tells at least as detailed and deep a story as is found in the greats of CRPGs.

 

I would say that the trend toward shorter games has more to do with the fact that the gaming demographic is older now.  A lot of people in their late 20s and early 30s simply don't have the time (or don't want to make the time) to become embroiled in 60+ hour games.

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As I near the big three-oh, I have to concur with this sentiment. With two kids, a full-time job, and my other hobbies and activities, I have neither the time nor the desire (desire when compared to activities such as teaching my two year old how to ride her bicycle) to spend 60+ hours to beat a game with limited replayability. My expectations have, in fact, changed with age and responsibility; I now expect at least the same amount of quality compressed into a shorter, more manageable game. This has been exacerbated by my excursion into MMOs, where quantity vastly outweighs quality in design parameters.

[Enoch]

My expectations have, in fact, changed with age and responsibility; I now expect at least the same amount of quality compressed into a shorter, more manageable game.  This has been exacerbated by my excursion into MMOs, where quantity vastly outweighs quality in design parameters.

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That's probably a pretty accurate description of where the market is going. The teenagers (et al.) with lots of free time to burn can sink it into MMOs. The employed adults who are lucky to pull together 4-5 hours a week for gaming (at which pace a 60-hr. game would take 3 months to complete!) will get shorter, but better crafted SP games. These consumers are also less sensitive to price, so the value/hour isn't as big a deal.

Edited April 24, 2006 by Enoch

[metadigital]

And I told you not to be ashamed of the odd double post "

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Fixed.

 

I read the first half dozen pages...

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Even if you had read all 30+, you still wouldn't have a good idea of how long NWN2's campaign is going to be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is true. However, when Feargus says the game is going to be 20 hours, then I have a tendency to believe the game is going to be 20 hours.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah, but it was a German interview, that translated Feargus's alleged comments from English, that was quoted by the Codex and re-translated back into English.

 

Hardly a smoking gun ... as Mr Sawyer pointed out, even the QA testers won't have any idea how long the game is until the last couple of weeks before release; and their experiences will obviously be skewed towards their speeding through it.

[Hassat Hunter]

It's poor design.  If you were able to sell it, when code was provided to ensure that you shouldn't be able to sell a quest-important item, then it would be a bug.  If it was never considered, it is a mistake in the game, but the game is still working as designed.

 

If poor design allows one to become stuck than it is a bug. Otherwise Testers would never be needed on Adventures like MI...but they are needed, mainly to make sure you CANNOT get stuck in the plot by doing something in some wrong way combination (like loosing the cat to scare of the dog while you still needed it to hunt the rat 4 screens beyond)...

 

This likely would be a bug.  I didn't say that exploits weren't bugs.

 

Alot of exploits are bugs. Don't tell me MMO's where people dupe billions of gold was due to an oversight which cannot be called exploit. If it wasn't meant to happen it is a bug... because it is not MEANT to happen. Ofcourse with sandbox type games that is harder to define what is and ain't meant (since they allow players more paths), but with most linear games it should be pretty sure what should and should not be possible...

 

Yes. That's why people refer to them as exploits.  Being able to maniuplate existing game mechanics in legal ways that the developers have allowed, in a way that they never considered, isn't a bug.

 

I don't know how you would call it then, but I don't call that an exploit. If it is allowed by the devs and was intended then using it ain't exploiting. If the devs never thought of killing enemies by pushing them of some roof but they can it ain't an exploit. If you can get additional ammo by putting a single bullet of a clip in an corpse and get a full clip back it's a bug/exploit. If you can get 100's of a certain item if you talk to said person with a filled inventory (DX Oceanbase, Paris Cafe among other places) that is a bug/exploit. If you can walk "into" an enemy and blast him from the inside it is an exploit/bug. Usually these kind of exploits are unseperatable from "bug" anyway...as shown. There are very few exploits in games I can recall that ain't bugs... would you be so kind as to refresh that memory?

 

If it does something like let you walk through walls (an intentionally placed barrier), then it would be a bug.  Something in the code is actually broken and not working as intended.

 

But would that be an exploit? That is the question...

 

I should probably reconsider how I worded it, as many exploits are bugs.  But there's many that aren't either.  Players have just taken a legal game mechanic and used it in a way that was never considered in design.

 

As I already mentioned above I am not capable at the moment of thinking of some of these "non-issue" exploits... as in the word exploit already is included that you "turn/bend" the system to your advanchment, and that doesn't really sounds intended...

 

PS. Not interested in MMORPG's... even if you guys think I fit in "the group"

Edited April 24, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[Darque]

ok: So to recap...

 

...no one really knows the answer so there's no reason to tweak out over it.

 

New thread please :D

[Llyranor]

You're right, let's start a new thread about the topic. It'll be like KOTOR3!

[Darque]

[roshan]

I read the first half dozen pages...

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Even if you had read all 30+, you still wouldn't have a good idea of how long NWN2's campaign is going to be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is true. However, when Feargus says the game is going to be 20 hours, then I have a tendency to believe the game is going to be 20 hours.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When feargus says its 20 hours, I have a tendency to believe it is going to be 10 hours long.

[mkreku]

Exactly what's good about DQ8's story? Let me guess, like SP says, the first few hours sucks and then it amazingly gets better. HAHAHA! How *convienent*. The story brings nothing new, the characters are ALL cookie cutter, and their is no heart or soul.

I guess the characters weren't good enough for someone who likes Deekin.

 

And yes, the game gets better and better the further in you get. But someone with the attention span of a goldfish (who keeps claiming Jade Empire is a long game) will not have the patience to appreciate that. That's understandable.

[Volourn]

"I guess the characters weren't good enough for someone who likes Deekin."

 

This proves you can't be trusted as you have no idea what you are talking about. I dislike Deekin. That's Hades youa re referring to.

 

 

"But someone with the attention span of a goldfish"

 

HAHAH! My attention span is fine. In fact, my attention span never ends. Consideirng the fact, I have spent like 24 hours straight playing D&D (hah! me = geek) or read books for hours on end, or play sports for hours one end; my attention span has never been described as short.. well.. except by the likes of you who know nothing anyways.

 

 

"who keeps claiming Jade Empire is a long game"

 

1. Define long.

 

2. I never claimed JE was long. I claimed JE was longer than what some claim it to be. LOL Again, you mistake me for Hades who took 40+ hours to finish JE. HAHAHAHA!

 

 

Bottom line is DQ8 is an overrated, boring game that insults all previous DQ/DW games. It adds nothing to the genre or the series. Nothing.

Edited April 24, 2006 by Volourn

[kirottu]

2. I never claimed JE wa slong.

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This is why I love Volourn.

[Cantousent]

Just one more time, I thought I'd point out that we're taking a twice translated statement, attributed to someone who hasn't played the game, as the basis for the length of NWN2.

[Meshugger]

Just one more time, I thought I'd point out that we're taking a twice translated statement, attributed to someone who hasn't played the game, as the basis for the length of NWN2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So, moral of the story: Feargus claims that NWN2 is 20 hours long, but how he got the idea is a mystery

[alanschu]

It's poor design.  If you were able to sell it, when code was provided to ensure that you shouldn't be able to sell a quest-important item, then it would be a bug.  If it was never considered, it is a mistake in the game, but the game is still working as designed.

 

If poor design allows one to become stuck than it is a bug. Otherwise Testers would never be needed on Adventures like MI...but they are needed, mainly to make sure you CANNOT get stuck in the plot by doing something in some wrong way combination (like loosing the cat to scare of the dog while you still needed it to hunt the rat 4 screens beyond)...

 

Nope. But what do I know, I forgot that you are the one with mountains of experience in this field, given all the "smart" things you are always saying. Besides, the situation you describe is quite different from a player selling quest items.

 

 

Failing to protect players from their own stupidity is not a bug. Otherwise, letting someone even DROP a quest item would be considered a bug.

Edited April 24, 2006 by alanschu

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Bottom line is DQ8 is an overrated, boring game that insults all previous DQ/DW games.  It adds nothing to the genre or the series. Nothing.

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How would you even know?

[Dark_Raven]

Lockdown not necessary at this point in time when the offending posts can be removed.

[Dark_Raven]

I read the first half dozen pages...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even if you had read all 30+, you still wouldn't have a good idea of how long NWN2's campaign is going to be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is true. However, when Feargus says the game is going to be 20 hours, then I have a tendency to believe the game is going to be 20 hours.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Perhaps Feargus erred in his time estimate. He could have cheated also or used god mode to zip through the game. NWN must be longer than twenty hours.

[LoneWolf16]

Failing to protect players from their own stupidity is not a bug.  Otherwise, letting someone even DROP a quest item would be considered a bug.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

More ignorance than stupidity...say you don't know something is a quest item and drop it some time along the way, only to end up in that one area where you need that particular item...that's bad design, and not the player's fault. Though I think you've already said that.

 

Bottom line is DQ8 is an overrated, boring game that insults all previous DQ/DW games.  It adds nothing to the genre or the series. Nothing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bottom line is that this is Volo's opinion. It doesn't have to be the same as your's, Mkreku, or yours SP. Though, I'll admit, he could be a bit less condescending and outright jerky about it.

 

The funny thing is that if the 'boycott' works, the message sent will be to make console games rather than longer PC ones.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lyr is 100% correct.