KotoR 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[Benjamin Korr]

I think there should be a char similar to Kreia that is your mentor throughout the game, but I think he/she should be a lightsider this time, and I think that it should be an older person like Kreia, one who has years of experiance, not a Jedi newb like Bastilla.

[Karimi]

I don't mind a long involved cutscene which explains what happens, and maybe through the story more can be revealed (sorta like K2 but not as slow), it may not be enough but better that than a game which constantly can't really keep the story afloat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The plot must be solid, yes. I agree with that. I just don't agree that having Revan and the Exile in it would ruin the plot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't think it would ruin the plot, im just saying it might have to work overtime to accomodate DS/LS Revan , female/male Revan.

[moreKOTORplz]

I think there should be a char similar to Kreia that is your mentor throughout the game, but I think he/she should be a lightsider this time, and I think that it should be an older person like Kreia, one who has years of experiance, not a Jedi newb like Bastilla.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

i agree, that or revan as the mentor/master would be sweet

[Jediphile]

I think there should be a char similar to Kreia that is your mentor throughout the game, but I think he/she should be a lightsider this time, and I think that it should be an older person like Kreia, one who has years of experiance, not a Jedi newb like Bastilla.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Bastila has years of experience by now. She was young in K1, but K2 is five years later and K3 likely a few years after that.

[Jediphile]

I don't mind a long involved cutscene which explains what happens, and maybe through the story more can be revealed (sorta like K2 but not as slow), it may not be enough but better that than a game which constantly can't really keep the story afloat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The plot must be solid, yes. I agree with that. I just don't agree that having Revan and the Exile in it would ruin the plot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't think it would ruin the plot, im just saying it might have to work overtime to accomodate DS/LS Revan , female/male Revan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think of Revan and the Exile more as story devices that drive the plot forward, so they wouldn't be obstacles that story needs to strain itself to accomodate - they would be elements that help it forward and expand the plot.

[Dyan]

I think there should be a char similar to Kreia that is your mentor throughout the game, but I think he/she should be a lightsider this time, and I think that it should be an older person like Kreia, one who has years of experiance, not a Jedi newb like Bastilla.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Bastila has years of experience by now. She was young in K1, but K2 is five years later and K3 likely a few years after that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And for all that, she's just as lovestruck as she was in K1...

[Guest The Architect]

The Latest Poll Standings Are...

 

I (27)

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D (2)

H (2)

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E (1)

M (1)

[Plano Skywalker]

Bastila has years of experience by now. She was young in K1, but K2 is five years later and K3 likely a few years after that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree...yes, there should be a mentor character (who becomes the squad leader in a number of multithreaded situations) and that Bastila, at this point, would be an ideal candidate.

 

Either that or a Vrook or Zhar type....just not an old crone with an attitude

 

(I do not, however, want my mentor hovering over me on my own ship...the mentor should rarely be on my ship....the mentor should have their own Jedi Starfighter and also catch rides on capital ships.)

[Weiser_Cain]

Droid character visualy are some of the dullest in the game when they really shouldn't be. I'd like to see the equiptment reflected in the look of the droid, if the droid isn't wearing any armor them it should look like a naked armature with all it's circuts exposed

[Weiser_Cain]

[Plano Skywalker]

excellent points there Weiser.

[Darth_Zonos]

i think you sould be able to combine armor and robes togther

[jenko]

What if the threat they were talking about wasn

[Plano Skywalker]

in a sense, it would be good to hear about what happened to certain people depending on how you set the alignments of Revan and the Exile.

 

ON THE OTHER HAND, it would also be neat if someone asked you what happened to soandso and you had a number of dialogue choices with which to answer the question.

[isotaan]

I'm not sure about adding dialogue choices for picking the gender/alignment for Revan and the Exile. Having the new PC in Kotor 3 pick who's what for both of the main characters from Kotors 1 and 2 seems a bit clunky. Then again, being able to pick can give the storyline a bit more flexibility.

 

Regardless of that, I'll join the bandwagon and say that Revan and the Exile need conclusions or a continuation of their stories if the loose ends aren't tied up. I say this because something should be left open if Kotor 4+ is on the distant horizon.

 

As for when and where Kotor 3 takes place, moving out into the unknown regions would probably remove the setting too far from the better-known Star Wars locales. Taking place during the invasion from the True Sith sounds workable. That way the writers can explore the stories of the characters from the first two games and how they dealt with the new invasion.

 

I prefer to not revisit the places that were included in Kotor 1 and 2, sort of a "been there, done that" mentality.

 

Keep the tried-and-true combat from Kotors 1 and 2. It's the Kotor 'thing' now, for good or ill.

 

Increase active party size to 4, but not any higher than that, though, as the PC isn't supposed to walk around with his/her own army. I'd like this because there may be certain missions/areas where one member has to be taken with the PC (as Mandalore was on Onderon), limiting the player to one choice for a companion.

 

I'm not a fan of missions where the player is forced from one area to the next (Landing on Onderon the first time, Sith invasion of Telos/Malachor), excepting any introductory parts (like Taris/Peragus). I like choices, so being able to run around the galaxy and delay the final battle appeals to me.

 

HK-47 is a must. If any character is added to the party for Kotor 3, it must be HK-47.

[SamuraiGaijin]

I think every equippable item (headgear, gloves, armbands, armor, belts, weapons) should be reflected in the characters' avatars ... an armor piece system could get cumbersome quickly, but might be cool ... one-handed weapons should be holstered/stowed when not in use.

 

K3 must wrap up the Revan / Exile story - I'd prefer the PC (and the choices the player makes) to be the focus of the story, and have significant influence on how the Revan / Exile story ends, but it must end. The player should have the option to choose Revan's and Exile's alignment and gender - it's not hard to implement, and at the end of K2 (even if you chose the "take over Malachor V" option in K2) both of them are headed for the Unknown Regions - there will be subtle differences in the K3 story, but it should be relatively insignificant to the core story (which MUST be about the PC, not Revan / Exile).

 

I want maps where there is more than one path from A to B ... and teleport tricks don't count as an alternative here ... and I agree that forcing the PC from one scene to the next is frustrating (but it does move the story forward).

[Jediphile]

Droid character visualy are some of the dullest in the game when they really shouldn't be. I'd like to see the equiptment reflected in the look of the droid, if the droid isn't wearing any armor them it should look like a naked armature with all it's circuts exposed

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hehe - "Exclamation: My parts are showing?!?" :D

 

I can hear HK say it now...

Edited February 18, 2006 by Jediphile

[Jediphile]

I'm not sure about adding dialogue choices for picking the gender/alignment for Revan and the Exile. Having the new PC in Kotor 3 pick who's what for both of the main characters from Kotors 1 and 2 seems a bit clunky.  Then again, being able to pick can give the storyline a bit more flexibility.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, it would be the player more than the character who sets the gender/alignment for the previous protagonists. I that causes less trouble than fixing these things according to some canon rulings that will put off a lot of people. Lots of people like to play Revan as DS and/or female, so setting him to LS male will alienate some people. Though I'll definitely set Revan to LS male, I still prefer this scenario.

 

Regardless of that, I'll join the bandwagon and say that Revan and the Exile need conclusions or a continuation of their stories if the loose ends aren't tied up. I say this because something should be left open if Kotor 4+ is on the distant horizon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly. And it's not that I want them to die, I just want them to end up in positions, where their fates are resolved. If either or both of them settle down in positions that they will stay in, then that's fine.

 

As for when and where Kotor 3 takes place, moving out into the unknown regions would probably remove the setting too far from the better-known Star Wars locales. Taking place during the invasion from the True Sith sounds workable. That way the writers can explore the stories of the characters from the first two games and how they dealt with the new invasion.

 

I prefer to not revisit the places that were included in Kotor 1 and 2, sort of a "been there, done that" mentality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed, though I'd like to go to the outer regions about half-way through the game. My suggested planets are Coruscant, Alderaan, Sleheyron, Myrkr, then Khar Shian/Khar Delba, and finally Ziost before an ultimate confrontation over Coruscant.

 

Keep the tried-and-true combat from Kotors 1 and 2. It's the Kotor 'thing' now, for good or ill.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed, though I would like them to switch a bit from the "my turn, your turn" concept and more to a "I take my first attack now, the you take two of yours, and then I have my second" according to who acted when in the initiative sequence. Such a system is lengthy to deal with in the PnP d20 system (which KotOR is based on), but it can work without trouble in a CRPG.

 

Increase active party size to 4, but not any higher than that, though, as the PC isn't supposed to walk around with his/her own army. I'd like this because there may be certain missions/areas where one member has to be taken with the PC (as Mandalore was on Onderon), limiting the player to one choice for a companion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, though I don't see why there should be a limit at 4 instead of 3. It never made much sense that you could only take so many characters with you. There was no logic to it, it was just a rule arbitrarily imposed by the game. If they would at least give us a reason, even a very convenient and opportunistic one, it would be a lot easier to accept. For example, you could say that someone has to stay behind to watch Ebon Hawk so that it isn't stolen, then that's a good point for at least one crewmember being tied to the ship at all times. For example, there didn't seem to be much reason why Atton had to stay and fix the Hawk on Dxun - especially since I always had Bao-Dur in the crew at that point - but I was still fine with that.

 

I'm not a fan of missions where the player is forced from one area to the next (Landing on Onderon the first time, Sith invasion of Telos/Malachor), excepting any introductory parts (like Taris/Peragus). I like choices, so being able to run around the galaxy and delay the final battle appeals to me.

 

HK-47 is a must. If any character is added to the party for Kotor 3, it must be HK-47.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, HK and T3 must definitely be in K3.

 

Excellent first post btw. Welcome to the boards.

[Jediphile]

I think every equippable item (headgear, gloves, armbands, armor, belts, weapons) should be reflected in the characters' avatars ... an armor piece system could get cumbersome quickly, but might be cool ... one-handed weapons should be holstered/stowed when not in use.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I want it just the other way - I want less visible equippable items. Lots of them look really silly when the characters wear them. I also think their boosts should observe what the stats they affect already are. A +2 Con item is great, but if your Con is already, say, 16, then it should add only +1, and if your Con is 18, then the item shouldn't have any effect at all.

 

And I think all weapons should be holstered or put away when not actively used. That would also get rid of those ghastly clipping errors, when the Exile randomly moves his vibrosword through the chair as well as Atton's chest during a cutscene...

[dtriniman]

Ok hi I'm new to the boards and I just wanted to say I'm glad to be here and I hope to meet and make a whole lot of new friends.

 

The dream game for me would be a SW game with a KOTOR/KOTOR II type storyline (which is so in-depth) and Jedi Outcast/Academy type action (which is so intense). Yes I know a rpg game that shifts to a fps when it's time to fight might be hard to pull off but hey it's my fantasy deal with it!

 

Ok as far as KOTOR III would go we definitely need:

 

1. Customizable faces, torsos and legs similar to Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy:Which was well recieved. I mean it really gives you a sense of individuality. I can't tell you how frustrating it was playing these 2 games and starting off with a guy who has the right beard and gaotee but no hair or vice versa. Let US choose, don't just slap in some stupid templates. And also like JK3 different races for the MC.

 

2.Customizable lightasaber hilts: Also a feature of Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy which was widely received. If you know even a bit of the SW world you would know that padawans create their own lightsaber hilt after practicing with a training saber. I mean after seeing them in both KOTOR games the piece of white pipe is damn annoying now.

 

If you guys want some models to work with I'll post a pic of the Alaris Hilt pack and some other sabers used in JK3. I mean geez get creative. What makes it worse is that the regular modders/skinners don't have access to the SW database you people obviously do and it's an insult that you give SW fans a piece of pipe and pass it off as a saber.

 

3. Another developer: Obsidian may be good with other titles but I'm only interested in SW and as the old adage goes: "You don't get a second chance to make a first impression." I mean their rush to meet some stupid deadline completely massacred what would have been a much better sequel to the Game of the Year KOTOR.

 

It wasn't until someone on another messageboard opened my eyes and showed me that the video is missing because they wanted to meet the deadline but the audio was there and I listened to it I got more enraged.That's right, for anyone who didn't know, all the alternate endings and all the missing pieces are in your game, the audio at least. I mean it's good stuff. Why not take the extra time and release a smash hit?

 

4.Bosses that act and fight like bosses: Malak was the man! The only sith Lord who cut it for me in either of the games. OK let's take KOTOR II. I didn't get a new lease on force powers cap (which can go up to 50 if I rmemeber correctly) to fight Sion who I can't beat with my saber (including the use of forms which finally got into a KOTOR game although we've been using it since Outcast) and new Force Powers but instead I beat him by destroying his will? That's so counter-productive.

 

If I had known that was how i would have beat him I'd have just cheated and did setpersuade 999. Come on you give me new saber skills and a heap of force powers for that? And Nihilus was the bigger dissapointment. All bark and no bite. Sure he looked and sounded cool but he was a pushover. Ridiculous.

 

As for storyline how about something more personal. Well the choice I mean. Let's say you start off as an padawan and a promising one at that. For once a SW RPG could possibly show the trials of a padawan/adept to knight. (For anyone who played JK2 you know you loved the trial Luke made Kyle take to get back his ligthsaber. YOU KNOW YOU DO! )

 

Let's say up to this point you are under the assumption only one of your parents is alive until there is some sort of unrest. You overhear your only parent say something about the dead one. You decide to follow up for yourself from what you overheard and this takes you on different quests and you receive a speficic destination which when you arrive after who knows what, you discover your dead parent is actually dead in the sense that noone thinks about him/her anymore because he/she joined the sith.

 

Of course you are appalled 1st your only parent has been keeping this from/lying to you, your other parent is alive and worse yet is a sith. The plot can thicken by

some convo somethign to the tune of : "oh do you believe so my son? No we are not evil , we are portrayed that way so that you and people like you won't know the truth. I suggest you go to the archives , find terminal 36 and look in the Archer Forest files the code to get in is 237024. When you have read it all then come back and tell me if you still think we are evil."

 

Well that's all for now I know it was a long post and I apologize. i suffer from firsttimeritis.

 

Almost forgot here is the Alaris Hilt Pack Pic

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y247/Tarr...rishiltpack.jpg

Edited February 18, 2006 by dtriniman

[DAWUSS]

Ok hi I'm new to the boards and I just wanted to say I'm glad to be here and I hope to meet and make a whole lot of new friends.

 

Welcome to the boards.

Wanna' play pazaak? Oh wait, that's not my line LOL

Hope you enjoy your stay

 

The dream game for me would be  a SW game with a KOTOR/KOTOR II type storyline (which is so in-depth) and Jedi Outcast/Academy type action (which is so intense). Yes I know a rpg game that shifts to a fps when it's time to fight might be hard to pull off but hey it's my fantasy deal with it!

Agreed

 

Ok as far as  KOTOR III would go we definitely need:

 

1. Customizable faces, torsos and legs similar to Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy:Which was well recieved. I mean it really gives you a sense of individuality. I can't tell you how frustrating it was playing these 2 games and starting off with a guy who has the right beard and gaotee but no hair or vice versa. Let US choose, don't just slap in some stupid templates. And also like JK3 different races for the MC.

Agreed, I had difficulty in K2 in trying to choose someone (I wanted a female with long hair - needless to say, I never found her).

 

2.Customizable lightasaber hilts: Also a feature of Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy which was widely received. If you know even a bit of the SW world you would know that padawans create their own lightsaber hilt after practicing with a training saber. I mean after seeing them in both KOTOR games the piece of white pipe is damn annoying now.

Been beaten to death already, so I could really care less about how my lightsaber looks (I know it's a long thread and it's your first post )

 

4.Bosses that act and fight like bosses: Malak was the man! The only sith Lord who cut it for me in either of the games. OK let's take KOTOR II. I didn't get a new lease on force powers cap (which can go up to 50 if I rmemeber correctly) to fight Sion who I can't beat with my saber (including the use of forms which finally got into a KOTOR game although we've been using it since Outcast) and new Force Powers but instead I beat him by destroying his will? That's so counter-productive.

 

If I had known that was how i would have beat him I'd have just cheated and did setpersuade 999. Come on you give me new saber skills and a heap of force powers for that? And Nihilus was the bigger dissapointment. All bark and no bite. Sure he looked and sounded cool but he was a pushover. Ridiculous.

 

Sion I'll chalk up to literary device.

And HK foreshadows that event if you can get enough influence with him

 

 

As for storyline how about something more personal. Well the choice I mean. Let's say you start off as an padawan and a promising one at that. For once a SW RPG could possibly show the trials of a padawan/adept to knight. (For anyone who played JK2 you know you loved the trial Luke made Kyle take to get back his ligthsaber. YOU KNOW YOU DO! )

 

Let's say up to this point you are under the assumption only one of your parents is alive until there is some sort of unrest. You overhear your only parent say something about the dead one. You decide to follow up for yourself  from what you overheard and this takes you on different quests and you receive a speficic destination which when you arrive after who knows what, you discover your dead parent is actually dead in the sense that noone thinks about him/her anymore because he/she joined the sith.

 

Of course you are appalled 1st your only parent has been keeping this from/lying to you, your other parent is alive and worse yet is a sith. The plot can thicken by

some convo somethign to the tune of : "oh do you believe so my son? No we are not evil , we are portrayed that way so that you and people like you won't know the truth. I suggest you go to the archives , find terminal 36 and look in the Archer Forest files the code to get in is 237024. When you have read it all then come back and tell me if you still think we are evil."

For some odd reason that sounds cliche... Let's leave the dead Sith daddy outta this (or Sith mommy, I used daddy 'cuz it sounded better after using the word dead)

 

Well that's all for now I know it was a long post and I apologize. i suffer from firsttimeritis.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No problem, I'll take long qualitative posts as well as short qualitative and quantitative posts. As I said before, have fun here at Obsidian forums

[Jediphile]

Ok hi I'm new to the boards and I just wanted to say I'm glad to be here and I hope to meet and make a whole lot of new friends.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Welcome.

 

1. Customizable faces, torsos and legs similar to Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy

[snip]

2.Customizable lightasaber hilts:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Lots of people seem to want somthing like, but I must say that I really don't care so much either way. If they want to include it, fine, but if not, I'm not going to miss it. And if programming it takes away from the rest of the game, then I'm against, since it's a low priority for me - a fluid game with a deep plot is much more important.

 

3. Another developer: Obsidian may be good with other titles but I'm only interested in SW and as the old adage goes: "You don't get a second chance to make a first impression." I mean their rush to meet some stupid deadline completely massacred what would have been a much better sequel to the Game of the Year KOTOR.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, but you can't blame Obsidian for that. It was Lucasarts that pushed the deadline heard, and so they should carry the blame for the sad state K2 ended up in. As a consequence I cannot see K2 as a true representation of what Obsidian is able to deliver. That they did so much in a year is quite a feat, so I'll wait until they publish other games that interest me (NWN2 is 3e and so not an option for me- yuck!) before I pass judgment on the company itself.

 

It wasn't until someone on another messageboard opened my eyes and showed me that the video is missing because they wanted to meet the deadline but the audio was there and I listened to it I got more enraged.That's right, for anyone who didn't know, all the alternate endings and all the missing pieces are in your game, the audio at least. I mean it's good stuff. Why not take the extra time and release a smash hit?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Lucasarts didn't give Obsidian a choice in the matter, and since they are the publisher and license-holder, there really wan't anything Obsidian could do about it. Obsidian has also been rather quiet on the whole matter, which is somewhat understandable. On the one had, there are probably sore memories over being forced into this and getting the fans miffed, but on the other hand they can't voice anger at Lucasarts if they want to do K3. Quite a dilemma. However, we have heard people from Obsidian say that they were not responsible for this situation, and I think someone from here asked if they would do an expansion pack for K2 if Lucasarts allowed it, and apparently Obsidian said yes to that. If that's true - and I'm not sure - then it speaks volumes about Lucasarts that we haven't seem something like that. As a pc-owner, I feel particularly shafted, because the pc-version came out after the christmas-sale that K2 was pushed for, and we still got a cut-content pc-version and yet no downloadable expansion, apparently because that was impossible to do for the x-box version, and the pc-version was not permitted to have more content.

 

But that's all speculation. If someone can confirm or deny this, please speak up.

 

4.Bosses that act and fight like bosses: Malak was the man! The only sith Lord who cut it for me in either of the games. OK let's take KOTOR II. I didn't get a new lease on force powers cap (which can go up to 50 if I rmemeber correctly) to fight Sion who I can't beat with my saber (including the use of forms which finally got into a KOTOR game although we've been using it since Outcast) and new Force Powers but instead I beat him by destroying his will? That's so counter-productive.

 

If I had known that was how i would have beat him I'd have just cheated and did setpersuade 999. Come on you give me new saber skills and a heap of force powers for that? And Nihilus was the bigger dissapointment. All bark and no bite. Sure he looked and sounded cool but he was a pushover. Ridiculous.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I actually though Sion was interesting to fight exactly because it didn't rely on raw power alone.

 

I'd agree that Nihilus is a disappointment. Nihilus should wipe the floor with the party in the initial fight, and only after he tries to drain the Exile should victory be possible, which does not mean easy. Nihilus was a push-over. Though he is greatly weaked by his attempt to drain the Exile, that's should be a reason for us to be able to defeat him, not for him to become a baby with a lightsaber

 

As for storyline how about something more personal. Well the choice I mean. Let's say you start off as an padawan and a promising one at that. For once a SW RPG could possibly show the trials of a padawan/adept to knight. (For anyone who played JK2 you know you loved the trial Luke made Kyle take to get back his ligthsaber. YOU KNOW YOU DO! )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually never played Jedi Outcast, since I never could get it to work right on my system. But yes, I would like to see something along those lines, and a lot of us here seem to like the idea of K3 showcasing the master/padawan relationship more than we have in the previous games.

 

As for plot, the one thing I really don't want to see is the "chosen one"-device that we've seen in the previous two games. I don't want to discover some great, big secret about my past or that only my character has the power to do something specific for a third time. I also don't want to play yet another amnesic jedi, semi-amnesic or otherwise - it was damn frustrating having to play as the Exile while not knowing half his background. How am I supposed to put myself in his position, if I don't know his past and will be told about it only through vague clues by Kreia?

 

I want my character in K3 to be just another young jedi at the wrong place at the wrong time. No special uber-powers and no background that makes me destined for something whether I want it or not.

[Plano Skywalker]

one way to handle the alignments of Revan and the Exile is to simply base it on a question that the PC gets asked early on. For instance, someone asks, "What do you think of that legendary Jedi Revan?"

 

1) He attacked the galaxy in order to save it....he did right.

 

2) He fell to the darkside but was redeemed later. All in all, there is much we can learn from him.

 

3) He should have never tried to save the Republic...the Republic must fall!

 

 

So, there we have it...in that conversation, the PC can choose between 1) DS/Antihero, 2) LS, or 3) DS/pro-Sith. The PC is defining his own views and, by default, defining the alignments and perspectives of Revan.

 

Exile does not have to be defined in-game, IMO. He went looking for his old mentor and general and ended up fighting an anamoly along the way. His own alignment does not matter as much...Revan's alignment, though, does have some bearing on the overall story.

Edited February 18, 2006 by Plano Skywalker

[Judge Hades]

Jediphile, NWN 2 is 3.5e/d20 System. So is the KotOR games. Your logic for not getting NWN 2 does not compute for you got KotOR 1 and 2, which is basically the same system at its core.

[Jediphile]

Jediphile, NWN 2 is 3.5e/d20 System.  So is the KotOR games.  Your logic for not getting NWN 2 does not compute for you got KotOR 1 and 2, which is basically the same system at its core.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, not really. NWN2 is d20 3e. KotOR is d20 Star Wars. I like the d20 Star Wars rules much better than I do d20 D&D, though I do think WEG Star Wars was better.

 

Besides, KotOR is - as I see it - plot first and rules second. I can live with that. NWN was just senseless monster slashing with an incredibly FR-typical plot. You have to look at the setting too. I like some non-3e D&D, like Mystara (especially Mystara) or Planescape, but not some others. I distinctly dislike the Forgotten Realms setting. Of all the (A)D&D settings, I find that to be the worst. I do like the Star Wars setting, however, and both KotOR games have been interesting to me in spite of being d20-based (certainly not because of it!).

 

I might change my stand on NWN2, but having tried and hated NWN1, I'll have to hear some really positive things on the points that I think makes for a good game before I change my mind.