What were they thinking?

[Diogo Ribeiro]

It's not uncommon to be playing a game and suddenly stumbling upon something you feel just begs the question "What were they thinking?". It may be a small quirk of the game, to a severe handicap, to something that just doesn't sit well or flat out contradicts the setting, story or established elements of the game. Basically, something you feel is just weird, obnoxious, questionable, or just plain bad design from the game's creators.

 

Case in point, Exhibit A: Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance for Gameboy Advance.

 

Troughout the course of the game, Juste Belmont will come across various collectibles which are decorative in nature. When reaching a certain room in the castle, Juste will comment on how the room lacks in taste... And decide to decorate it with the afforementioned items.

 

 

 

 

So, what

[Slowtrain]

ha awesome. I've got a billion of those.

 

 

 

Like in Jag 2, when your mercs get hit by a damaging shot they will sometimes lose points off AGILITY, DEXTERITY, WISDOM etc. Stats which are impossible to increase for all intents and purposes, and there's no real way to gain back a loss of twenty dexterity points. SO bascially its a forced reload unless you are happy with your mercs slowly losing their physicial stats as the campaign progresses. Forced reloads suck, especially reoccurring forced reloads that you have no way of preventing and offer absolutely no gameplay feature except annoyance. Its totally stupid and really irriitates me and I have no idea what Ian Currie and the sir tech devs were thinking with that. grrr.

 

 

ah I feel better now.

[Moose]

Space Invaders... I mean what is the point of shooting all those aliens and blasting the ocassional mothership... more will just come, and more, and more!!!!!

[alanschu]

ha awesome.  I've got a billion of those.

 

 

 

Like in Jag 2, when your mercs get hit by a damaging shot they will sometimes lose points off AGILITY, DEXTERITY, WISDOM etc.  Stats which are impossible to increase for all intents and purposes, and there's no real way to gain back a loss of twenty dexterity points.  SO bascially its a forced reload unless you are happy with your mercs slowly losing their physicial stats as the campaign progresses.  Forced reloads  suck, especially reoccurring forced reloads that you have no way of preventing and offer absolutely no gameplay feature except annoyance. Its totally stupid and really irriitates me and I have no idea what Ian Currie and the sir tech devs were thinking with that. grrr.

 

 

ah I feel better now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

It's not a forced reload. You could either chug through or get a different merc. It'd make a bigger deal if it actually handicapped your ability to play the game.

[Slowtrain]

It's not a forced reload.  You could either chug through or get a different merc.  It'd make a bigger deal if it actually handicapped your ability to play the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

No not really. You've got forty mercs at AIm and another 6 or so at MERC. Once a few of them get cracked down from 80 or so agility to 30 or 40 agility, there' not much point in playing anymore.

 

edit: I should clarify be aying that it is a "forced reload" in essense. Technically you could keep playing but what's the point? I'd rather just suffer te indignity of having Magic dropped by a headshot and reload rather than a goofy *Magic looses 29 agility*. I mean what's the point?

Edited January 23, 2006 by CrashGirl

[alanschu]

So because one guy is no longer combat capable there's no point in playing the game anymore?

 

Do you quit or reload if a Merc dies? Might as well play with God mode on.

 

I pretty much beat the game with only 6 guys. I had a handful of other mercs take care of training militias and whatnot, but I had one main squad of 6 that did almost every fight in the game.

 

The only time I would really change it up is when I would use Shadow to go around at night and have him single handedly kill entire squads without being seen ( Shadow)

[Slowtrain]

So because one guy is no longer combat capable there's no point in playing the game anymore?

 

Do you quit or reload if a Merc dies?  Might as well play with God mode on.

 

I pretty much beat the game with only 6 guys.  I had a handful of other mercs take care of training militias and whatnot, but I had one main squad of 6 that did almost every fight in the game.

 

The only time I would really change it up is when I would use Shadow to go around at night and have him single handedly kill entire squads without being seen ( Shadow)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

k. First off let me set the record straight.

 

I play Jag 2 as it was intended to be played: I insure my mercs; play expert level; if a merc dies they are gone for good; if my IMP dies its game over. If one of my mercs suffers one of the stat hits, which doesn't happen too often cause my mercs raely take damage, I either tough it out or quit the game and start a new one.

 

It still annoys the crap out of me because its a totally useless game feature. And yeah, if I've spent 30 points at IMP giving my merc an 85 agility and he loses thirty point of it in the first battle with no way of getting it back, then yeah, its a forced reload.

 

Or in my case a quit and start new game.

 

I'm not denying the high quality of Jag 2 which is all the more reason why that particular feature irritates me.

[alanschu]

Again...might as well play with God Mode on.

 

 

At least with your IMP you can rationalize it as a retirement though.

 

Odd though, that you have no problems continuing on when a Merc dies, but if one takes a stat penalty, you reload. Clearly playing the game as it was meant to be played.

Edited January 23, 2006 by alanschu

[Slowtrain]

Again...might as well play with God Mode on.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

WHat does that have to do with anything? I have no problem with mercs getting killed, injured, requiring healing. What are you talkign about?

 

 

 

Odd though, that you have no problems continuing on when a Merc dies, but if one takes a stat penalty, you reload.  Clearly playing the game as it was meant to be played.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Obviously you're seeing what you want to see. I never reload for any reason. I quit and start a new game from scratch rather.

[Nick_i_am]

In what is otherwise a perfect game, the removal of the 'zone of control' rules from civ4 made me go 'what?'.

 

EDIT: haha, CrashGirl is obviously crazy

Edited January 23, 2006 by Nick_i_am

[Slowtrain]

EDIT: haha, CrashGirl is obviously crazy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, yes, quite true. But I'm not sure what in this particular thread indicates that...?

 

Or is it an overall reaction?

[alanschu]

Again...might as well play with God Mode on.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

WHat does that have to do with anything? I have no problem with mercs getting killed, injured, requiring healing. What are you talkign about?

 

Obviously you do. Otherwise you wouldn't completely restart the game every time it happens.

 

Odd though, that you have no problems continuing on when a Merc dies, but if one takes a stat penalty, you reload.  Clearly playing the game as it was meant to be played.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Obviously you're seeing what you want to see. I never reload for any reason. I quit and start a new game from scratch rather.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

Still a silly gripe. Especially when claiming to play the game the "way it was intended." (which is a statement I particularly enjoyed, as they obviously intended for you to be able to take attribute point damage).

 

If you feel like reloading every time a merc dies, then that's your own perogative. But when it's an atypical way of playing it, there's not much sense in you criticizing it. Try playing the game through without restarting. It doesn't HAVE to be a flawless playthrough with zero people dying.

Edited January 23, 2006 by alanschu

[Slowtrain]

Obviously you do.  Otherwise you wouldn't completely restart the game every time it happens.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But I don't....

 

 

 

Still a silly gripe.  Especially when claiming to play the game the "way it was intended."  (which is a statement I particularly enjoyed, as they obviously intended for you to be able to take attribute point damage).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't understand why they implemented it though. It doesn't seem to make any sense. True, Deiranas forces take attribute damage also, but that is an essentially infinte supply of replaceable generic troops. I could see it make more sense in a game like XCOM.

 

 

If you feel like reloading every time a merc dies, then that's your own perogative.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

hmm. I don't reload when a merc dies.

 

  But when it's an atypical way of playing it, there's not much sense in you criticizing it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

My quitting the game and starting a new one is my response to a design feature I think is annoying and pointless.

 

 

Try playing the game through without restarting.  It doesn't HAVE to be a flawless playthrough with zero people dying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Most of my campaigns end with a few dead mercs. It doesn't bother me. I never complained about mercs dying. WHy do you keep bringing it up?

[Judge Hades]

My bit has to be Neverwinter Nights. Bioware has made some great games in the past but then this showed up. I mean no party for the single player, super easy adventure, and time traveling lizards? What the hell?!?!?

[kirottu]

My bit has to be Neverwinter Nights.  Bioware has made some great games in the past but then this showed up.  I mean no party for the single player, super easy adventure, and time traveling lizards?  What the hell?!?!?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What I didn

[Darque]

Stat drops in JA2 were a seriously poor design choice.

 

Worst design ever: BG/BG2 and whatever's idea that "Evil" is just good for hire... what einstien thought that up?

[Judge Hades]

No doubt about that;. Evil is evil. Neutrals are good for hire. Evil is skinning a live puppy then salting it for additional measure of pain.

[mkreku]

Well, Gothic (and subsequently Gothic 2) were designed as "keyboard only" games. Late in the development cycle the crazy germans realized that most PC's had something connected to them that's called a mouse. Panicking they tried to incorporate a bit of mouse control in the game, but alas, it was too late. That's why Gothic & Gothic 2 suffers from some really awkward controls (although they're highly modifiable, which makes them ok after a bit of tinkering).

 

But who the hell decides to do a "keyboard only" game in the year 2001?! Boggles the mind.

[alanschu]

Obviously you do.  Otherwise you wouldn't completely restart the game every time it happens.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But I don't....

 

 

You've already stated that you would "rather just suffer te indignity of having Magic dropped by a headshot and reload rather than a goofy *Magic looses 29 agility*" In that same post you mention "what's the point?"

 

You certainly do NOT give off the impression that you keep playing when a guy dies (since your situation explained reloading the game after Magic dies), nor do you give an impression that you keep playing if a guy suffers attribute damage.

 

 

Still a silly gripe.  Especially when claiming to play the game the "way it was intended."  (which is a statement I particularly enjoyed, as they obviously intended for you to be able to take attribute point damage).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't understand why they implemented it though. It doesn't seem to make any sense. True, Deiranas forces take attribute damage also, but that is an essentially infinte supply of replaceable generic troops. I could see it make more sense in a game like XCOM.

 

To make the game more difficult? To add a bit of variety?

 

If you feel like reloading every time a merc dies, then that's your own perogative.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

hmm. I don't reload when a merc dies.

But you completely restart the game if a guy takes attribute damage

 

My quitting the game and starting a new one is my response to a design feature I think is annoying and pointless.

 

And it's irrational. Especially when a merc that has taken attribute damage is not as bad as a merc that is dead. Especially when, as some sort of "explanation" you cited the finite number of mercs, here: "You've got forty mercs at AIm and another 6 or so at MERC. Once a few of them get cracked down from 80 or so agility to 30 or 40 agility, there' not much point in playing anymore."

 

But I'm sure if a few of them just get outright killed, somehow that's not nearly as bad

 

 

Try playing the game through without restarting.  It doesn't HAVE to be a flawless playthrough with zero people dying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Most of my campaigns end with a few dead mercs. It doesn't bother me. I never complained about mercs dying. WHy do you keep bringing it up?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Because a dead merc is worse than a merc that has taken attribute damage. Which is something you completely restart the game over.

 

You shouldn't have mentioned reloading after Magic dying either.

Edited January 23, 2006 by alanschu

[mkreku]

Crashgirl, wear a helmet for your next crash because your posts aren't making any sense.

 

alan, you've made your point and "won" the mudslinging already, now shoo! Scram!

 

 

Don't ruin this thread, it has potential to become something interesting. It's always fun to hear what people are annoyed about in their (so far mostly favourite) games!

[Volourn]

Ice age? Huh? BIO didn't make up the 'ancient lizards'. TSR did.

 

Anyways, what was BIo (and subsequently Obsdiain) thinking when they didn't even *try* to make use of the D20 SW rules.

 

At least in games like NWN, the IE games, or TOEE; there was effort to make it as close as possible.

 

P.S. Not counting POR2 because... well.. that game si full of 'what were they thinkings'.

 

R00fles!

 

 

"Don't ruin this thread,"

 

Don't balme here for your actions. She followed the topic, and then you attcaked her by accusing he rof 'cheating' or 'she should play in god mode'.

Edited January 23, 2006 by Volourn

[Darque]

come on people, chill

 

Craptastic design #8: TOEE - direction conversions suck... add some real story and flavor next time.. oh wait, Troika bought it...

[Judge Hades]

No doubt about that, Volourn.

 

My problem with the lizards is that Bioware made them appear to be this great one and only creator race which they are not. They are 1 of five and oneof those five are humans. Also they got the whole time traveling wrong inthe Realms. There are only one way to travel in time in the Realms and that is use of time conduits which exist only in 3 locations. Mystryl made very very very strict rules about time traveling and Mystra enforces those rules fully.

[alanschu]

"Don't ruin this thread,"

 

Don't balme here for your actions. She followed the topic, and then you attcaked her by accusing he rof 'cheating' or 'she should play in god mode'. rolleyes.gif

 

I think you're confusing mkreku and myself.

[Slowtrain]

You've already stated that you would "rather just suffer te indignity of having Magic dropped by a headshot and reload rather than a goofy *Magic looses 29 agility*"  In that same post you mention "what's the point?"

 

You certainly do NOT give off the impression that you keep playing when a guy dies (since your situation explained reloading the game after Magic dies), nor do you give an impression that you keep playing if a guy suffers attribute damage.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I don't know what to say. It doesn't sound like you read much that I wrote beyond the first couple line sof my first post.. WHich is OK. Its sometimes tough to do on a message board.

 

 

 

To make the game more difficult?  To add a bit of variety?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I don't know. I'm already dealing with the ultimate responsilibty of keeping them alive as best I can. The whole stat loss thing seems overkill. If it had a game point like forcing you to spend money on rehab time or shipping them back to AIM for X number of weeks, it would make a lot more sense.

 

 

But you completely restart the game if a guy takes attribute damage

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, I agree that is irrational and it would make more sense just to reload if I hate that feature. But I don't reload in Jag 2 so its not an option.

 

 

And it's irrational.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

  Especially when a merc that has taken attribute damage is not as bad as a merc that is dead.  Especially when, as some sort of "explanation" you cited the finite number of mercs, here: "You've got forty mercs at AIm and another 6 or so at MERC. Once a few of them get cracked down from 80 or so agility to 30 or 40 agility, there' not much point in playing anymore."

 

But I'm sure if a few of them just get outright killed, somehow that's not nearly as bad

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

A dead merc doesn't cost any money. Callous, tis true.

 

 

Because a dead merc is worse than a merc that has taken attribute damage.  Which is something you completely restart the game over.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not always. If its my IMP, yeah. That's as good as death. New Game. If its other mercs sometimes I'll keep playing with them, sometimes I let them go, sometimes I quit and start a new game. It depends how I am feeling at the moment.

 

You shouldn't have mentioned reloading after Magic dying either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I don't recall doing so. I'll go and look.

 

edit: anyway I'll stop because I do agree that its a good idea for a thread and I'm nopt going to be spamming it.

Edited January 23, 2006 by CrashGirl